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Team Toughness or lack thereof

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02-12-2013, 02:13 PM
  #126
Micklebot
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Originally Posted by SixthSens View Post
Well said.

Players like Neil, Clarkson, Clutterbuck, etc. are the only kind of "tough" guys I want to see on this team. The ones that can take a regular shift, providing high levels of energy while not hurting the team by taking stupid penalties.
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Those are exactly the kind of players we need on this team.
How many teams have more than one of that type of player? I can think of Boston off the top of my head with Lucic and Thornton, though Thornton might be a stretch.

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02-12-2013, 02:19 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
How many teams have more than one of that type of player? I can think of Boston off the top of my head with Lucic and Thornton, though Thornton might be a stretch.
LA: Richards, Brown and to a lesser extent King, Clifford and Nolan.

Tough players who can actually take a regular shift are very hard to come by and that is the main reason why very few teams have more than one of those type of player.

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02-12-2013, 02:20 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
How many teams have more than one of that type of player? I can think of Boston off the top of my head with Lucic and Thornton, though Thornton might be a stretch.
Lucic, Horton, Chara all play a power game and contribute on the score sheet. Boston also has a few smaller guys that play tough in Bergeron, Marchand, Ference, and Peverley. That's also complimenting a tough core of players like McQuaid, Paille, Campbell, Thornton, Boychuk, and now MacDermid.

Boston is my model of how a team should be built.

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02-12-2013, 02:46 PM
  #129
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I think you'd be the first person ever to refer to Adam Mcquaid or Dan Paille as core players.

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02-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
I think you'd be the first person ever to refer to Adam Mcquaid or Dan Paille as core players.
I did not refer to them as core players, I refered to them as a 'tough core'. There is an obvious difference.

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02-12-2013, 02:54 PM
  #131
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The nice thing about Konopka and Carkner is that they were serviceable guys who didn't mind riding the pine for much of the season.

They stepped up and played a role, but they also took the contracts they got and ran with 'em.

Toughness that can play a shift against finesse teams isn't all that easy to find.

You need a team with balance, not necessarily a line-up with a balance, but a team.

We certainly lost some toughness in the organization, not sure who we'd put in if we got into another slugfest.

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02-12-2013, 03:51 PM
  #132
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We miss Konopka and Carkner in some capacity, yes, but it's not like the organization has just abandoned the idea of being hard to play against. There are a lot of teams out there who don't have Chris Neils and Zack Smiths. Borowiecki, Gryba, Kramer, Cowen, and Dzuirzinski are all these types of players people are clamoring for. I'm glad we're getting these types of players from within the organization rather than throwing silly Carkner and Orr type contracts at them. Hell, even Hugh Jessiman could be called up for that role if really wanted.

I don't think anyone would be complaining if Cowen was in the lineup. He was obviously a big loss but those are the breaks. Nobody's bullying the team yet and we're sitting above or exactly where most people would have expected the team to place without some key components and affording opportunity to young players.

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02-12-2013, 04:00 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
We miss Konopka and Carkner in some capacity, yes, but it's not like the organization has just abandoned the idea of being hard to play against. There are a lot of teams out there who don't have Chris Neils and Zack Smiths. Borowiecki, Gryba, Kramer, Cowen, and Dzuirzinski are all these types of players people are clamoring for. I'm glad we're getting these types of players from within the organization rather than throwing silly Carkner and Orr type contracts at them. Hell, even Hugh Jessiman could be called up for that role if really wanted.

I don't think anyone would be complaining if Cowen was in the lineup. He was obviously a big loss but those are the breaks. Nobody's bullying the team yet and we're sitting above or exactly where most people would have expected the team to place without some key components and affording opportunity to young players.
It is way better to have tough players in the system then having to seek them out in free agency. Almost every "tough guy" who hits the open market gets overpaid. A good example of that is Brandon Prust. Prust is a decent player and can be a valuable asset, to some extent, on any team but there is no ****ing way he is worth $2.5 million.

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02-12-2013, 05:26 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
How many teams have more than one of that type of player? I can think of Boston off the top of my head with Lucic and Thornton, though Thornton might be a stretch.
Thorton is every bit as tough as Neil & is a good middleweight. Lucic is one of the toughest guys in the NHL & is a very good heavyweight, then they still have the toughest guy in the league IMO & superheavyweight Chara. I like the way Boston is built as well & McQuaid is big & a very good fighter as well.

I would love to see Murray make a deal with Washington to get Tom Wilson. While he wouldn't help immediately, by the time he is NHL ready Neil could be gone or certainly declining. Wilson brings size, toughness & he can play an effective role for any team, he does have some skill & played with Noesen.

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Old
02-12-2013, 05:33 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
It is way better to have tough players in the system then having to seek them out in free agency. Almost every "tough guy" who hits the open market gets overpaid. A good example of that is Brandon Prust. Prust is a decent player and can be a valuable asset, to some extent, on any team but there is no ****ing way he is worth $2.5 million.
Prust has looked great for the Habs (and I hate both the Habs and Prust)

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02-12-2013, 06:11 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
We miss Konopka and Carkner in some capacity. Nobody's bullying the team yet .
What any team does in the regular season means $hit if they get picked on handily in the playoffs. Is Karlsson going to start fighting himself?

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:24 PM
  #137
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Anybody miss Matt Carkner tonight? Here's a clip of Carkner bloodying Craig Adams after a hit on Alfredsson took him out for several weeks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1t6aSHUS-8

We all know Carkner would have done something about Cooke tonight after the injury on Karlsson. I love Chris Neil but he's not the kind of guy to seek retribution at any costs, which is why he has no suspensions in his career. But tonight, I really missed having someone like Carkner in the lineup. I think Chris Neil plays his best hockey when someone like Carkner is in the lineup supporting him.

Also, for memories sake, Carkner on Boyle after hitting Karlsson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94r8eauXqkU

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02-13-2013, 10:27 PM
  #138
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Well too bad we didnt have konopka and carkner this year. Would have been real nice watching them put cooke into a coma.

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02-13-2013, 10:30 PM
  #139
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Is it too early to start my Dylan MacIlrath campaign again?

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:30 PM
  #140
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Greening....soft as butter

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02-13-2013, 10:40 PM
  #141
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I wouldn't even mind if the sens signed some goons and just got them to target cooke the next time they play the pens. ******* the game and the season its over anyway.

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:40 PM
  #142
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"Toughness is taking a hit and beating them on the scoreboard". Too bad we cant do either.

I say sign Lessard.

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02-13-2013, 10:45 PM
  #143
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Methot, Smith, Neil, Greening.... And nothing until 2 mins left in the game...

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:48 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
Methot, Smith, Neil, Greening.... And nothing until 2 mins left in the game...
Yaup. Pretty disgusted at them. Even neil didnt look like he was giving his all there.

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02-13-2013, 10:54 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
Methot, Smith, Neil, Greening.... And nothing until 2 mins left in the game...
I can understand at first because you still are trying to win but at the end it should of been a full fledged line brawl a few gloved punches big deal.

But your best player goes down on a questionable play .... they should of been taking runs at anyone who touched the puck.. but we only have 2 forwards who show any interesting in being physical.

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02-13-2013, 10:55 PM
  #146
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I know Carks doesn't play for us anymore, but it'd be awesome if he went at Cooke...

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02-13-2013, 11:09 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by CR15 View Post
I can understand at first because you still are trying to win but at the end it should of been a full fledged line brawl a few gloved punches big deal.

But your best player goes down on a questionable play .... they should of been taking runs at anyone who touched the puck.. but we only have 2 forwards who show any interesting in being physical.
It's not the first time we have seen an Ottawa team do that, reminds me when JM was coaching here. I don't think Maclean is like that though because i think he was still trying to win the game & it was close until that 4th goal.

I'm not surprised that the question of toughness has come up now after this Karlsson/Cooke incident. It should be interesting to see what happens on Saturday against Toronto, if they try to run Ottawa out of there own building. I wonder if they will call up any tough guys from Bingo like DD or Gryba? Probably not.

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:11 PM
  #148
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Pretty sure the game is in Toronto.

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02-13-2013, 11:13 PM
  #149
Legend Killer
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I dont even care about not having a heavyweight... But the guys we are relying on to do that job have to sack up...

Teams around the league are probably laughing at our team now... No Spezz or Karlsson to beat them and nobody to beat them up...

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:18 PM
  #150
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Well it seems like Murray was not pleased with there performance.... from that tweet in the other thread. I full expect Murray to get his revenge in the next game... he doesn't back down for fights and Sens are used to brawls (Ottawa vs Philly) (Ottawa vs Buffalo) (Ottawa Vs Kings)... I don't care, get a few suspensions, get some fines, beat the **** out of cooke/others. We can't make Karlsson come back but it will make us feel better.

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