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Old
02-23-2013, 05:41 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
Agostino with a very strong game tonight. Scored once and hit the post on a beautiful deke. Hoping he foregoes his senior year and joins WBS this season, but it seems like he values his education.
I caught some of the game. I remember someone saying how they felt like Agostino could use another year in college in order to get stronger and I agree after watching him tonight. He was constantly getting knocked onto the ice every shift, but he definitely has a good motor and keeps going though.

Rust had another goal tonight and having a pretty good season as well. He's probably more ready to turn pro if you ask me, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if they both go back for their senior year.

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02-23-2013, 05:42 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by RyanHPscout View Post
I've seen quite a bit of Maatta and Harrington in London this season. I noticed the discussion about Penguins prospects and thought I'd chip in.

Maatta has played with such a relentless work ethic, it's been great to see. I've met the kid, he's a great kid who wants to play in the NHL. He competes tremendously and although he's put up good points at the OHL level, he may be more of a defensive guy who wins battles and shows up every night putting together an honest effort. He's kinda funny offensively. Even with the time and space he has in the OHL, his passes are constantly in the feet of the recieving skater and not onto the stick. I'd say his passing accuracy is about 30% of the time to be totally honest. He seems to have the vision and see the play, it's just executing it. And there are times where he'll spend half the power play throwing inaccurate passes then all of a sudden in one shot, he makes a great pass to set up a goal. What has been deceptive about Maatta is you see that great pass on the video, but you don't see the 4 or 5 before that which were not so pretty. But as I said he works hard, he never gives up on a play and he seems to win more and more battles as the season goes on. Something has to give on the offensive front, either he becomes more accurate with his passing, or the Penguins wind up making him more of a defensive first guy, especially with guys like Pouliot and Morrow coming up at the same time.

Scott Harrington has been nothing short of fantastic for London. He is a true top 4 shutdown defenseman in the NHL and may not need much AHL time assuming the Penguins wind up having an opening because he's matured so much in the last few years. He's learned through trial and error and at this point rarely ever makes a mistake. You won't get much offense from him but he'll make the smart simple pass. Nothing fancy, but efficient. He's not overly physical but he knows when he needs to use his size. He's extremely difficult for forwards to battle in the slot and defending the front of his own net is definitely one of his greatest attributes. He's been a great leader for London and I think somewhere down the line he ends up with an "A" on his jersey with the Penguins. I'm very excited to see how he does at the pro level.
Good stuff. Always appreciate the insight.

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02-23-2013, 07:43 AM
  #153
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Thanks Ryan for the scouting report on our guys!!

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02-23-2013, 07:52 AM
  #154
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Stats for defensemen can really vary, especially in the playoffs...Bryce Salvador, anyone?

I think what's more important is reliability and consistency, and by Ryan's account our two London prospects are developing nicely in those areas.

As for Samuelsson, the difference between him and Strait may be timing. When Samuelsson is ready, he could be in line to replace Orpik for a similar role. Strait was ready at the worst time in terms of numbers.

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02-23-2013, 09:57 AM
  #155
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Great stuff RyanHPscout. Sucks to hear about Maatta's poor passing ability. For some weird reason, I always envisioned him being the first young D to get moved by Shero in a deal.

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02-23-2013, 10:31 AM
  #156
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Thanks for the info Ryan.

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02-23-2013, 10:59 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHPscout View Post
Scott Harrington has been nothing short of fantastic for London. He is a true top 4 shutdown defenseman in the NHL and may not need much AHL time assuming the Penguins wind up having an opening because he's matured so much in the last few years. He's learned through trial and error and at this point rarely ever makes a mistake. You won't get much offense from him but he'll make the smart simple pass. Nothing fancy, but efficient. He's not overly physical but he knows when he needs to use his size. He's extremely difficult for forwards to battle in the slot and defending the front of his own net is definitely one of his greatest attributes. He's been a great leader for London and I think somewhere down the line he ends up with an "A" on his jersey with the Penguins. I'm very excited to see how he does at the pro level.
Pffft, TRADE HIM NOW !!! He doesn't look like he's Pens type of player. We don't do it !





PS : Thanks for update And Ray, please KEEP this guy, no matter what, he will The Piece Jr. !!!

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02-23-2013, 11:58 AM
  #158
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I'm intrigued by Harrington and not because of the reason most are. His play from game to game is great, but the fact that the guy has played just an immense amount of hockey since being drafted, yet he still gets big mins and his play has remained steady just shows that he's primed to be one of those big time, big min defenders who can play 30 mins a night if you need him to.

He may be NHL ready very soon after turning pro, but I wouldn't be against letting him have a year in WBS to add more strength, learn the system, and work on some little things he has to work on.

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02-23-2013, 02:02 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I'm intrigued by Harrington and not because of the reason most are. His play from game to game is great, but the fact that the guy has played just an immense amount of hockey since being drafted, yet he still gets big mins and his play has remained steady just shows that he's primed to be one of those big time, big min defenders who can play 30 mins a night if you need him to.

He may be NHL ready very soon after turning pro, but I wouldn't be against letting him have a year in WBS to add more strength, learn the system, and work on some little things he has to work on.
Yeah, we've got the quality and depth to get used to the pro game for a year or two in WBS if we choose...not that he'll necessarily need it. He's a real quick study.

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02-23-2013, 02:44 PM
  #160
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The only thing I really want to see from Harrington is an edge. He has the frame to play a mean game.

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02-23-2013, 02:58 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
The only thing I really want to see from Harrington is an edge. He has the frame to play a mean game.
I've made a point of watching a lot of Harrington - I've seen the kid play a fair bit in London and internationally. He's not a big hitter, but he has no problem laying the lumber in the hard areas. He makes it tough on guys out there.

Got a Letang-esque temperament in the d-zone. Takes assignments personally.

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02-23-2013, 03:08 PM
  #162
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If he is physical like Letang, I can take that. If he can lay the boom like Letang can when he wants to, that's even better.

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02-23-2013, 03:09 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I've made a point of watching a lot of Harrington - I've seen the kid play a fair bit in London and internationally. He's not a big hitter, but he has no problem laying the lumber in the hard areas. He makes it tough on guys out there.

Got a Letang-esque temperament in the d-zone. Takes assignments personally.
You gotta think that being on the main pairing in so many important games, Memorial Cup, WJR's, has cultivated that mindset.

Great to hear. That temperament is the stuff of a shutdown defender. And it sounds like he has the ability to match it.

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02-23-2013, 03:37 PM
  #164
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If he is physical like Letang, I can take that. If he can lay the boom like Letang can when he wants to, that's even better.
Harrington hits, but it's always with the focus of separating the man from the puck (he's surgical with the poke-checks too). He's not going to take guys' heads off, but the flip side of that is you'll never see him chasing hits and getting out of position.

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You gotta think that being on the main pairing in so many important games, Memorial Cup, WJR's, has cultivated that mindset.

Great to hear. That temperament is the stuff of a shutdown defender. And it sounds like he has the ability to match it.
For sure. You can tell he relishes his role and does NOT like getting beat. After McDavid scored a nice goal against him off the rush, the next time Erie and London played he gave him a rough ride all game long. Must've really stuck in his craw, haha.

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02-23-2013, 04:54 PM
  #165
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Harrington and Dumoulin will really help keep the defensive side of things steady.

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02-23-2013, 05:09 PM
  #166
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Hey Ryan, excellent post, and it's great to get an unbiased (assuming you don't work for the Pens, like me ) scouting assessment on our players. It has initiated and continued some great discussion on both Maatta and Harrington, so I will address each of these guys in their own post -- as opposed to my longest post in my history of long posts at HF Boards, for those who know me well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHPscout View Post
Scott Harrington has been nothing short of fantastic for London. He is a true top 4 shutdown defenseman in the NHL and may not need much AHL time assuming the Penguins wind up having an opening because he's matured so much in the last few years. He's learned through trial and error and at this point rarely ever makes a mistake. You won't get much offense from him but he'll make the smart simple pass. Nothing fancy, but efficient. He's not overly physical but he knows when he needs to use his size. He's extremely difficult for forwards to battle in the slot and defending the front of his own net is definitely one of his greatest attributes. He's been a great leader for London and I think somewhere down the line he ends up with an "A" on his jersey with the Penguins. I'm very excited to see how he does at the pro level.
I agree with everything you have said here to within 97%. The only bit of variance that I have with you is that he may not wear a letter -- though I have stated before that this is entirely based in the context of trying to get one of 3 letters on a team that already has Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and god-knows who else by the time Harrington is a vet. But I totally agree, he is captain material, or assistant capatain at the very least, depending what team he's on. (Hence my comparison to Glen Wesley, not in terms of identical-type players, but G.W. being a guy who wore an "A" for Boston, Hartford(and then) Carolina before having his number retired and winning a Cup after a 15-20 year career). I think Harrington has the ability to have the same type of impact on the Pens or whatever NHL team he plays for (hopefully none other than the Pens) provided he stays healthy.

The only other area where I diverge slightly from you is that I think he has a "little bit" more offensive upside than he is given credit for, or is interpreted to possess (though this will only be known a handful of years into the future). I have had many arguments/discussions on this subject with others on this board re. Harrington's offensive upside. 1) because he is such a smart player and see's so much ice-time that I figure he will put up point on that basis alone; 2) I have seen him play & perform well on the 2nd PP unit in LDN and 5-on-5 (both in the OHL, World Under-18 tournament for Canada, where he also wore a letter, etc.); and 3) because he has a great, hard slap shot, great shot-selection in general (he knows when to slap, wrist, slap-pass or shoot it wide, and almost always keeps it low and hard). Some people say that certain players/prospects are "better" at the NHL level than in juniors or minor leagues. Harrington is a stud where he is playing currently, but offensively is the one area where I think he could even be better at the NHL level with better players.


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I think Harrington are as sure thing as they come in terms of making the NHL. We all hope he can be a top-4 guy, but the worst i see him end up as is a 3rd pairing guy. I dont see how hes not making the NHL tbh.
Indeed Harrington is a sure thing, even more than Beau Bennett or Despres, who already are on this roster. But one thing I can tell you for sure, which I think Scout Ryan agrees: his upside at the NHL level is top-4 worst-case-scenario. As myself, RRP, JTG and Ryan have said, we all see him as a 25-30 minute per/game type of player. He can be that player, and he can be paired with a #1 Dman (even if he himself is "only" a #2)


Quote:
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I'm intrigued by Harrington and not because of the reason most are. His play from game to game is great, but the fact that the guy has played just an immense amount of hockey since being drafted, yet he still gets big mins and his play has remained steady just shows that he's primed to be one of those big time, big min defenders who can play 30 mins a night if you need him to.
Just referenced this post, and fully agree. But I agree with Ryan, like I said last year, that Harrington can step in right away and not look out of place. Sure, he could still get a bt stronger, so could Bennett and Despres and Jeffrey and Niskanen, etc. (Martin just did it at 30+ years old). But Harrington can step in next season and IMPROVE our top-6. As Craig Button often says about good prospects: "he won't just make the team or compete for a spot, but he can make a significant impact and contribution". This is EXACTLY how I feel about Harry.

Now, the only way I don't see him starting with the Pens next year is if they feel that they HAVE TO give Dumoulin a shot first, the same way that they gave Despres a shot over Dumoulin this season, even though both Despres + Dumoulin were deemed equally NHL-ready (and some people thought Dumoulin even more than Despres). Only time will tell, but I see Harry and Dumo competing neck & neck for that last spot on the roster, and this is also why I have proposed we can "win and compete" with a young defense -- right Tender Rip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yeah, we've got the quality and depth to get used to the pro game for a year or two in WBS if we choose...not that he'll necessarily need it. He's a real quick study.
Precisely. (quoting this post to show Ryan and I are not alone in this thinking, though RRP and I have been aligned on Harry for a while now).

Quote:
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The only thing I really want to see from Harrington is an edge. He has the frame to play a mean game.
I'm in Europe about to fly back to NA tomorrow morning, so I will keep the rest of my posts brief, and probably address Maatta later. But regarding this issue: the most important thing about Harrington is that he has made a signifcant improvement in 2 key areas he needed to improve, if at all: 1) his skatng picked up another gear, which means so did his endurance and strength; and 2) his physical strength and physical play went to another level. Now, it is by no means Orpik-esque, and I disagree that it's Letang-esque either. But I would say it's somewhere in between the "new" Paul Martin, and Matt Niskanen. But I don't believe Harry will top out his physical play at his current level, and he likely will NEVER be a punishing player. But the very fact that he is improving in this regard, or in any area(s), is all you can ask of a young player to do. Especially in one as complete as Harrington.


[QUOTE=Rowdy Roddy Peeper;60317435]Harrington hits, but it's always with the focus of separating the man from the puck (he's surgical with the poke-checks too). He's not going to take guys' heads off, but the flip side of that is you'll never see him chasing hits and getting out of position.

Yes, Harry is so defense-first & defense oritented that he will not look for the huge hit, or put up the bigger offensive numbers I think he could. But his gap control, shot blocking and the use of his stick (I'm scared to say "Lidstrom-like") is exemplary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
You can tell he relishes his role and does NOT like getting beat. After McDavid scored a nice goal against him off the rush, the next time Erie and London played he gave him a rough ride all game long. Must've really stuck in his craw, haha.
Yes, he is a perfect definition of a "quiet competitor". There's a reason he's the captain in London, and these traits will carry right through to the NHL, regardless of if he's wearng a letter or how long it takes for him to get one.

Obviously, I LOVE this player (no homo); and I have to admit I do feel vindicated when we get other scouting reports like this or, more importantly, when the players themselves prove it as pros, after being sometimes criticized for my lofty projections of Harrington since being drafted.

But to put it into context, as I have said before: Harrington is probably my #1 "untouchable" prospect, Beau Bennett has crept right up there right next to Harry as untouchable (for obvious reasons to all of us), and Pouliot would be my #3. Virtually any other prospect in our organization I would consider putting on the trade block without feeling sick to my stomach (provided the return was reasonable, of course). But these 3 guys have separated themselves, and even Pouliot is a distant #3 to BB and Harry as it stands today.

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02-23-2013, 06:25 PM
  #167
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Hey Ryan, excellent post, and it's great to get an unbiased (assuming you don't work for the Pens, like me ) scouting assessment on our players. It has initiated and continued some great discussion on both Maatta and Harrington, so I will address each of these guys in their own post -- as opposed to my longest post in my history of long posts at HF Boards, for those who know me well.
Thank you and everyone else for the positive responses. I won't quote that whole post because that was very in depth. But I would say I'm unbiased. I grew up a Penguins fan, so eventhough now that I scout I am impartial, I do like seeing them succeed and I'm glad I've been able to see some of their prospects regularly.

I agree on a team with this many leaders it will be a while before Harrington wears a letter but I can tell you agree and understand my point that he's a leader and with or without a letter he will be a "mature beyond his years" kind of presense on the blueline.

I don't want to predict a timeline for Harrington because the Penguins have several good young defensemen, but I agree that if he made the team next year he would not look out of place.

I agree with your statement about his offensive tools. He gets power play time in London partially because they have not had a real true power play QB in years so they've given different guys a chanceand Harrington has been effective because he's smart. He won't try to do anything beyond his ability or risky with the puck and as you eluded to he has a very smart point shot which is easy to deflect and he gets it through most of the time. I just don't see him getting much PP time with the Penguins consider the prospects Pittsburgh has coming up like Morrow, Pouliot and a young Letang on the team. But he could step up in an injury ridden situation and be reliable.

I consider Harrington's absolute top end potential as being one of the best shutdown defensemen in the NHL and plays a top pairing role 5 on 5.

Low end I would be very, very surprised if he wasn't a second paring defenseman that plays on the top PK unit. Sometimes guys just don't translate for unexplainable reasons but I would be nothing short of shocked if Scott doesn't turn into a top four defenseman.

Strength wise I think Harrington has got stronger and he's noticeably tougher to play against. Some of the complaints among scouts is he's more than willing to throw an extra shot after the whistle, or give the face wash but won't step up and drop the mitts or really have that in his game between whistles. Also that he lacks a mean streak. He will finish his hits but he won't be that guy who goes off and throws hit after hit. Some guys have the size and the strength to do it but just lack the mentality to be that guy. Ottawa's 1st round pick Cody Ceci is a perfect example of that kind of player. He's built like a truck but lacks the mean streak to use it except for when the play absolutely calls for it.

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02-24-2013, 08:06 AM
  #168
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Joe Morrow with the GWG in OT yesterday, +1, and he was also named 1st Star!!!

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02-24-2013, 08:25 AM
  #169
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Anton Zlobin with a 3 assist game last night. Now leads the Q in assists at 58 in 54 games. That is as many as he had in his first two seasons combined. Of course it helps when you play with great scorers (league-leading goal scorer Anthony Mantha on the PP, and Brandon Hynes at even strength). Zlobin will need 14 more points over the last 8 games to crack 100 for the season, he's put up 18 in his last 7.


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02-24-2013, 09:53 AM
  #170
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Physically I think Harrington will be somewhere around Scuderi or Josh Gorges. He pins guys and he'll bump them to dislodge the puck, but he doesn't throw bone-jarring, momentum-changing hits.

Harrington's "toughness" is in his willingness to take hits and get in front of shots.

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02-24-2013, 10:29 AM
  #171
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Anton Zlobin with a 3 assist game last night. Now leads the Q in assists at 58 in 54 games. That is as many as he had in his first two seasons combined. Of course it helps when you play with great scorers (league-leading goal scorer Anthony Mantha on the PP, and Brandon Hynes at even strength). Zlobin will need 14 more points over the last 8 games to crack 100 for the season, he's put up 18 in his last 7.
Yeah, hes been on fire lately
Question is as usual in these situations - Are Zlobin benefiting from the scorers, or the other way around. I guess its a little bit of both

Would be nice for him to crack 100. I remember there was a thread (or maybe in an old prsopect sticky) where we put down hopes/predictions. I remember i was hoping for Zlobin to score 100 points ^^

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02-24-2013, 10:41 AM
  #172
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Physically I think Harrington will be somewhere around Scuderi or Josh Gorges. He pins guys and he'll bump them to dislodge the puck, but he doesn't throw bone-jarring, momentum-changing hits.

Harrington's "toughness" is in his willingness to take hits and get in front of shots.
He's pretty handy with the stickwork in the corners and in front of the net too. Makes sure the other guy knows he's there.

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02-24-2013, 01:14 PM
  #173
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Just curious, but do they allow drinking at the Trib on weekends? Check out the article's title, then the picture, then the caption:

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/...#axzz2LD876qxZ

Nailed it.

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02-24-2013, 01:22 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Just curious, but do they allow drinking at the Trib on weekends? Check out the article's title, then the picture, then the caption:

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/...#axzz2LD876qxZ

Nailed it.
Haha I saw that. Article about Megna, picture of Hanowski, captioned as Philip Samuelsson

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02-24-2013, 01:24 PM
  #175
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Haha I saw that. Article about Megna, picture of Hanowski, captioned as Philip Samuelsson
Crack team of fact-checkers they've got there.

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