HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Penguins - Devils 2/10/12 - NJ Got To Our Game Edition

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-11-2013, 12:05 AM
  #351
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 34,589
vCash: 500
I will repeat my mantra.

Regualr season means nearly nothing, unless you are a bubble team who may not make the playoffs. What is worrisome is what we saw this weekend is basically what you see in the playoffs. We will win games, lots of them. Hell we will win games this coming week, I guarentee it. And everyone will forget all about this. But they shouldn't. Winning regular season games is worthless. I would rather that they work on what they are ****ing up and lose a few more games. But they never do. You will remember this weekend when we lose in the first round again in a couple of months.

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:06 AM
  #352
turd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
And side conversation.. I cannot remember a time the Pens came back with am epic emotional comeback. Anyone off the top of their head think of one recently? When we are down.. we lose. When Neal scored, I was trying to remember the last time we made a sweet comeback in a game.

I am guessing 2010 Ottawa? Game 6? 2009 Philly? I don't know.
Certainly not this season. Only one win (the shootout in Ottawa) has been a one-goal victory. All the others had 2+ goal differentials.

turd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:09 AM
  #353
WarriorScholar
Registered User
 
WarriorScholar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I can't seem to get upset at games like today for the same reason I was kind of meh about yesterday's game. The more the team struggles to score when Sid or Geno aren't dominating, the more it'll force Shero to add some offensive support up front for them.
Yup . Said the same thing yesterday. We need games like this. The fact it was two in a row to a division rival , makes an even bigger impact. This stood out. They know what they need. It will happen.

WarriorScholar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:10 AM
  #354
Ugene Malkin
Hello Mr. Andersen
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 24,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I will repeat my mantra.

Regualr season means nearly nothing, unless you are a bubble team who may not make the playoffs. What is worrisome is what we saw this weekend is basically what you see in the playoffs. We will win games, lots of them. Hell we will win games this coming week, I guarentee it. And everyone will forget all about this. But they shouldn't. Winning regular season games is worthless. I would rather that they work on what they are ****ing up and lose a few more games. But they never do. You will remember this weekend when we lose in the first round again in a couple of months.
That's pretty much it, you win all these games and lose those few against teams you know are trouble, meet up in the playoffs, shine up those golf clubs.




I know what you mean, Cole. Those seasons they'd come back or make it look a lot closer than it was are very few and far apart.

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:19 AM
  #355
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I will repeat my mantra.

Regualr season means nearly nothing, unless you are a bubble team who may not make the playoffs. What is worrisome is what we saw this weekend is basically what you see in the playoffs. We will win games, lots of them. Hell we will win games this coming week, I guarentee it. And everyone will forget all about this. But they shouldn't. Winning regular season games is worthless. I would rather that they work on what they are ****ing up and lose a few more games. But they never do. You will remember this weekend when we lose in the first round again in a couple of months.
I hope Bylsma wont get a free pass if we get outed in the first round again because we played too many games, had no training camp, etc. Bylsmas resume:

1 cup
1 2nd round exit
3 1st round exits

with the lineup he has.

66-29-33 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:20 AM
  #356
turd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 804
vCash: 500
I just hope that if they canned Disco that they'd do a legit coaching search and not just promote Reirden/Granato/Hynes.

turd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:22 AM
  #357
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turd View Post
I just hope that if they canned Disco that they'd do a legit coaching search and not just promote Reirden/Granato/Hynes.
Dave King. Guy would use Malkin on the PK alot more then he is now, same with Crosby.

66-29-33 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:22 AM
  #358
HenriquesJawLine
Registered User
 
HenriquesJawLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLLL Penguin View Post
Convo I had with friend at game tonight:

Me: "This feels like that Montreal series where we dominated the play but lost because of a few rushes."

Friend: "I hate watching the Devils play."

Basically sums up the game.
Except the part when the Devils possessed the puck in the Penguins zone for most of the 2nd and 3rd periods

HenriquesJawLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:31 AM
  #359
Take Notes
Reaching for the top
 
Take Notes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal,Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,921
vCash: 500
Devils fan here,

I was just wondering if some of you really think that the Devils still trap?

As an outsider, I dont think the system of the strech pass will work against top teams, I think that you guys really need a Top 6 Winger to play with Crosby.

Take Notes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:32 AM
  #360
Take Notes
Reaching for the top
 
Take Notes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal,Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenriquesJawLine View Post
Except the part when the Devils possessed the puck in the Penguins zone for most of the 2nd and 3rd periods
No they did not, they trapped the whole game and waited for the penguins to make mistakes to try and capitalize on them.

Take Notes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:39 AM
  #361
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Notes View Post
Devils fan here,

I was just wondering if some of you really think that the Devils still trap?

As an outsider, I dont think the system of the strech pass will work against top teams, I think that you guys really need a Top 6 Winger to play with Crosby.
Beats me, i don't know systems or what to look for for knowing who plays what system. I just watch, and throw things when i get mad.

66-29-33 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:40 AM
  #362
Tender Rip
#Haz supa line mates
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Hate to break up the stretch pass party (I know that's always the reason we lose ), but I think it's illustrative that when talking about what NJ did to win, both Bylsma and Crosby stressed that the Devils succeeded by getting the puck deep, being strong on the puck, and playing extended shifts in the offensive zone.

The Pens weren't committed enough to move the puck the puck out consistently, and consequently got worn out.

Maybe Bylsma and Crosby just aren't clued into the all-encompassing evils of the stretch pass. Or maybe there were other, more pressing issues tonight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
This is pretty right on.
I don't understand why this functions as an argument against critiquing our breakouts? New Jersey did what Bylsma would like us to do, ie. we didn't prevent them from establishing zone time, which they did by picking apart our breakout.
None of their goals were scored playing in the offensive zone; rather they did that exploiting two occasions where one of our D-men got trapped behind the play and their puck carrier beat Vokoun cleanly with our remaining D-man choosing to cover the trailing forward (pretty much text book although you see D-men to a good job of taking some of the shooting angles away). These goals had nothing to do with what system either team was playing. It was converting on the kind of transition chances that virtually any team will get once or twice in a game.

But having said that, the argument that we weren't committed to move out the puck consistently.... what does that even mean, CW?
They were committed to do the same things over and over and the Devils gladly moved their D high with 3F coverage to pick it off. It has nothing to do with commitment and everything to do with being easy to read. Perhaps you can say that they weren't committed to chase the dump-ins and win 50/50 battles, but I would add that there is a systemic component to setting yourself up to challenge for those battles that we clearly didn't have.

Now, Mtl.Pen will then point to Dupuis' stone hands as an argument that we cannot short pass our way out of the first forechecking waive to get into position to chip it behind their D and go to work.
That is probably where I disagree with him the most. When you can have Fayne or Volchenkov short pass to Josefsson who short passes to Stephen Gionta or Bobby Butler, who chips it behind our D for Steve Bernier... or Krys BARCH! to chase... ie what passes for a Devils 4th line.... regularly.... then it isn't lack of skill that prevents us from doing the same.

It COULD be a lack of structure on our part though. Ie. passing/break out routines that are actually drilled in practice. Our guys can take a tape to tape pass like most NHL'ers, but it is a lot easier making those passes and receiving them while coming forward with speed, if players instinctively know where the other forwards are going. We display very little such understanding and haven't for a long time, which is what I was cautioning even while we were winning. Unless our top players are freelancing and making things happen on account of their superior skill and vision, we have very little going on.

If we were to suggest that Ogelthorpe is or could be right that the stretch pass is a good way to beat.... lets say 'the Devils solid team defense and neutral zone interference'.... then clearly when it isn't working on the day, or two days running, you need to have other options to go to. And if we are basically doing the same thing also when meeting teams that play very different from the Devils, not to say virtually any team we meet, then clearly it isn't just a design to beat.... a defense such as the Devils'.

I just cannot accept that we are a team with a set notion of what our game is, when we rarely get to it, and it isn't what gets us wins... certainly not goals... either.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:41 AM
  #363
Crafton
Liver-Eating Johnson
 
Crafton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 9,578
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Notes View Post
Devils fan here,

I was just wondering if some of you really think that the Devils still trap?
don't know why you guys get so butt-hurt about it. yes lots of fan from all over slag the Devils for being boring and use lazy terminology when describing their play but most of the fans here recognize the aggressive forecheck that DeBoer has brought to the team and aren't really associating the Devils of today with the Devils of yore. Cole and MtlPenFan spell it out the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
The forecheck was after in-zone control was already established. People cannot be this blind, right?

The Devils haven't done it to us a lot recently, but tonight it was full out trap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Are you serious right now? Are you serious? You think teams that trap NEVER go on the offense?

Traps are supposed to be set when the opposition has a set break out. Not all game. Not every single shift. Just when there are absolute set breakouts.

I'm giving the Devils credit. Don't get all uptight because you think I'm dogging your team. You guys have rarely trapped us in the past. Tonight, they backed up to the blue line on EVERY single one of our set breakouts. That's a trap, dude. No other way to put it. I can only offer you to understand what the terminology means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
People confuse neutral zone play and in zone play a lot. You can actually forecheck hard in zone and once possession by the opposition is established, back off into a trap.

Devils fans can take offense all they like, but it is what it is.


Last edited by Crafton: 02-11-2013 at 12:48 AM.
Crafton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:46 AM
  #364
Take Notes
Reaching for the top
 
Take Notes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal,Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
don't know why you guys get so butt-hurt about it. yes lots of fan from all over slag the Devils for being boring and use lazy terminology when describing their play but most of the fans here recognize the aggressive forecheck that DeBoer has brought to the team and aren't really associating the Devils of today with the Devils of yore. Cole and MtlPenFan spell it out the best.
It's not about being butt-hurt it's the fact that people look stupid saying it, but yes the way MPF describes it, it's pretty accurate.

Good luck in the near future, hope you guys learn to ''trap'' and win some games!

Take Notes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:51 AM
  #365
SHOOTANDSCORE
Viva Despres!
 
SHOOTANDSCORE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
And side conversation.. I cannot remember a time the Pens came back with am epic emotional comeback. Anyone off the top of their head think of one recently? When we are down.. we lose. When Neal scored, I was trying to remember the last time we made a sweet comeback in a game.

I am guessing 2010 Ottawa? Game 6? 2009 Philly? I don't know.
This is one of the things that has been bothering me. I think the team is missing intangibles rather than skills.

SHOOTANDSCORE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:53 AM
  #366
Ugene Malkin
Hello Mr. Andersen
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 24,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Notes View Post
No they did not, they trapped the whole game and waited for the penguins to make mistakes to try and capitalize on them.
Boy....with all the icings how could you notice?

Yes, the stretch pass is garbage in my eyes, it's the lazy mans pass if used more than a few times in a game. You catch people sleeping with them not make them an every play out of your zone occurrence.


How many icings kept them hampered in their own zone? The down side of stretch passes with tired players out there. Tired players skate it out to the red and dump it in, change. There were times our defenders were just standing in inside of their D-zone a top of the circle looking for cherry picks without a Devils player within 30 feet of them.


Last edited by Ugene Malkin: 02-11-2013 at 12:59 AM.
Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:54 AM
  #367
Crafton
Liver-Eating Johnson
 
Crafton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 9,578
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Notes View Post
It's not about being butt-hurt it's the fact that people look stupid saying it, but yes the way MPF describes it, it's pretty accurate.

Good luck in the near future, hope you guys learn to ''trap'' and win some games!
i think there are some legitimate word-association problems with the term. we can't help it if the media of the 90's/00's ran the word into the ground and used it as a shorthand to delegitimize the success of your team. but there always seems to be some kind of NJ word-police on the prowl - making sure everyone knows these Devils are different. most of us get it - team's still boring as all hell


Last edited by Crafton: 02-11-2013 at 10:29 AM.
Crafton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 01:20 AM
  #368
Parise9Crosby87
Registered User
 
Parise9Crosby87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: boca raton florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,573
vCash: 500
i thought sid had a good game and some good chances

Parise9Crosby87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 06:13 AM
  #369
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
i think there are some legitimate word-association problems with the term. we can't help it if the media of the 90's/00's ran the word into the ground and used it as a shorthand to delegitimize the success of your team. but there always seems to be some kind of NJ word-police on the prowl - making sure everyone knows these Devils are different. most of us get it - team's still boring as all hell

myself, i know very little about the x's and o's but thankfully we have some guys here like Mtl and Cole that can set us straight.
I find it funny that the LW lock has become part of "trap". While it is a trapping play, the trap is where five guys are in the neutral zone and refuse to engage anyone



The left wing lock is a one man forecheck where the one guy usually stands in front of the net so he can attack after the puck crosses the goal line. I can't think of a single team in the NHL that doesn't play some variation of the left wing lock/trap, with the difference being where their 2nd and 3rd forwards are (usually).

Bjindaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 07:09 AM
  #370
Saving Greiss
Trade Malkin???
 
Saving Greiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Notes View Post
Devils fan here,

I was just wondering if some of you really think that the Devils still trap?

As an outsider, I dont think the system of the strech pass will work against top teams, I think that you guys really need a Top 6 Winger to play with Crosby.
Anybody claiming the Devils play the trap is being ignorant. They certainly tighten up defensively when they have the lead, but I wouldn't call it the trap. The Devils are playing the same way that gave the Flyers fits. Get pucks deep and try to force turn overs.

If the Pens/Devils meet in the spring, then Debeor will have the opportunity to be yet another coach that makes Bylsma look stupid.

Saving Greiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 07:24 AM
  #371
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 78,215
vCash: 50
Need to bounce back on Wednesday against the Senators. How inconsistent we are in results is baffling.

Shrimper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 07:27 AM
  #372
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Yes, the 2009 team that won the cup by beating The Flyers (not a trapping team) the Caps(Didn't even play defense), Carolina (not a trapping team) and The Wings (play almost the same system as us).

So how does that relate to playing a trapping Devils team?

PS The 09' team was won 3 times against NJ and lost 3 times against NJ. We are 1-2 this year.
The Wings played a hybrid 2-3 LWL, which was a trap. They absolutely killed the Pens with it in '08 and their quick transition and offense from the points was never properly countered on the ice. MT you could see was doing the right thing to counter it, but the players just couldn't stay disciplined. Beating the trap takes everyone being on the same page, shift after shift. Det feasted on the Pens neutral zone turnovers and quickly transitioned the puck on the counter. They also, like the Devils did last night, killed the Pens from the point all series long.

DB beat their trap in '09 by stretching out the f3/reversing the puck to make the weak side defender an option. The trap cuts the ice in half and isolates the puck carrier, to counter it, you have to support your puck carrier and everyone has to do their job. Your weak side defender has to become an outlet, your high fwds have to come with speed and back off the defense, your puck carrier has to be supported.

The Pens used a number of supported breakouts agt. Det, rarely using the stretch pass, and their goal was to gain the red line and dump the puck, then work over the Wings defense. In game 7, you can clearly see this strategy because all they did was breakout to gain the red line and have their fwds hit the blueline with speed to chase the dumps.

This minimized mistakes and forced Detroit to constantly retrieve pucks and they made the most mistakes, that's all it really came down to.

The Pens, like Philly, didn't get killed by the trap, they lost because the Devils forechecked the **** out of them. I've said this several times and broke down what the Devils do on their forecheck a few times in the past. Their double chip breakout helps get the puck deep and then they establish that beastly forecheck.

The Pens blueliners were doing an admirable job handling it last night, but they didn't get the support along the walls from the fwds. The Devils key to their forecheck is their defense and they are masters of keeping the puck in and tying up your fwds along the wall.

I saw several people blame Bort and Despres for making a lot of turnovers, which isn't accurate. They were moving the puck up the wall like they are taught, but they were not getting the support from their fwds. The Pens fwds absolutely got owned all night long in puck battles in their own zone.

That is the biggest reason why they lost. Not because of the trap. Not because DB is an idiot.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 07:27 AM
  #373
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 13,525
vCash: 500
I thought the same thing about comebacks and those became a rarity when the coaching change occurred. Not to beat a dead horse but I think you'd find it coincides.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 07:29 AM
  #374
Captain Hook
Olli Määttä
 
Captain Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 14,586
vCash: 500
This team struggles without Letang about as much as they struggle when they're without anybody and that includes Crosby. The Devils are also playing unbelievable right now. Just ran into them at the wrong time.

Captain Hook is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 07:35 AM
  #375
Saving Greiss
Trade Malkin???
 
Saving Greiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
This team struggles without Letang about as much as they struggle when they're without anybody and that includes Crosby. The Devils are also playing unbelievable right now. Just ran into them at the wrong time.
At what point does it stop being excused as a team "at the wrong time" and start being acknowledged that this team isn't prepared?

Saving Greiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.