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Penguins - Devils 2/10/12 - NJ Got To Our Game Edition

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Old
02-10-2013, 09:40 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
maybe roll out those Kings tapes...
Kings were just better at being the Devils than the Devils were. Only thing is, those guys are a lot bigger, Quick outplayed Brodeur, and the Kings PP got hot at the right time.

Bruins are still King of the east though.

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02-10-2013, 09:40 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Not me. I know he's trying.
KIRK my friend, I share many of your expressed frustrations and viewpoints ... personally, I've found a number of inane posters only served to irritate me, so I've been using the ignore feature pretty liberally.

So, what do you think about this ... since neither Sid or Geno's line have been producing with any real consistency, let's move Kunitz back to Geno's line and try Cooke in his place. Gives us a line with a much more recent playing history/chemistry that's shown it can be relied on. Cooke can be a possible band-aid. Not sure BB is ready for the show, but if he's back from his injury, can't hurt to bring him up for a cup of coffee on Sid's line. Thoughts?

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02-10-2013, 09:40 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
again, you're basing this opinion on what, exactly?
on the fact that he might have had the opportunity to trade for Dustin Brown the day before the deadline and didn't move fast enough before it got out and Dean Lombardi pulled it back

http://insidepittsburghsports.com/st...is-week/47111/

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02-10-2013, 09:40 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
As soon as someone can prove that Shero is passing up a "hockey trade" or ... any trade, I'll get my pitchfork.
Who said that? I said that I know he's trying. No need to be snippy when I agree with you.

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Old
02-10-2013, 09:41 PM
  #130
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To be honest, I think this team is so absurdly talented that it could win a cup even with this system. I mean, it already did once.

I don't believe they can with this system because it's completely predictable and literally kills almost all possibility of creative play-making and scoring chances. It takes what 71 and 87 are best at and nullifies it. It's a least common denominator system. Take the guys with the most blunted skills, and whichever system they can excel at, that's what we play IMO.

It worked in 2009 because teams hadn't seen it. Since then we've been shut down when it counts, all three times.

What's more I think this team is wayyy too comfortable with how much talent it has. They are so confident they can score a couple goals at any time, that even when there's two minutes left and they're down two, I see very little urgency from the Captain or anyone else. Everyone is calm as can be. And while that's not bad necessarily, I think it's counter productive at times. A little emotion and urgency in situations like that would help more than hurt IMO.

This team needs a shake up and I think it's going to get one.

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02-10-2013, 09:41 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
I'm just frustrated at wasting Sid and Geno and building AROUND them rather than through them. Random hypothetical situation is we trade for Iginla and Kulemin. It doesn't just make our top 6 stronger, it makes our bottom six stronger too. Dupuis to the third line makes it better, thats where he belongs. Our puck possesion goes UP, our quality of chances goes UP, shots against go DOWN, goals against go DOWN.

Sigh. Whatever. Can't wait to draft another d-man this year.
Damn Shero. Nonis calls him up every day offering Kulemin for Harrington/Maata/Pouliot/Dumoulin/Ruopp/Despres/Morrow/Strait, but Shero just won't budge!!

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02-10-2013, 09:42 PM
  #132
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+ Going 8-1-1 in my Head to head Fantasy League because of Kovy's past two games
- It being Kovy that put me over the top instead of Crosby.

+ Being in a better position to draft a winger
= Being in a worse position to draft a top talent than Philly
- The realization we'd probably grab another D anyway.


On a more serious note, if just one of any of the chances botched between Malkin and Boychuk had been good... Any of the bad decisions Malkin made between feeding Boychuk or driving the net, any of the times Boychuk could have put one away, any time Malkin could have finished a feed from Boychuk, any of times that Malkin could have generated an opportunity for the team instead of fighting off the world and losing the puck...

The only thing as frustrating as the Pens slide these past two games is the Blues' slide at the same time.

All that remains is patience - for a trade market to develop, for Boychuk and Malkin to work out, for Letang/Niskanen to come back, for Bennett and Morrow to develop.

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02-10-2013, 09:42 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by BrookswasHere44 View Post
+ a Leroux reference. I loved that man...ill look for Slegr references in the future
Same here, a Leroux away jersey was the first jersey I ever had.

I'm concerned about them using Morrow, he's still adjusting to the speed of the AHL, let alone the NHL. If they need another defenseman for an extended period of time, I'd be much more comfortable with Dumoulin.

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02-10-2013, 09:42 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by leafspensfan View Post
on the fact that he might have had the opportunity to trade for Dustin Brown the day before the deadline and didn't move fast enough before it got out and Dean Lombardi pulled it back

http://insidepittsburghsports.com/st...is-week/47111/
So Shero was in on a HUGE trade that would have helped this team, but the dance partner backed out... And this reflects negatively on Shero.. why?

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02-10-2013, 09:42 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Damn Shero for turning down these well-documented "defense prospect for scoring winger" proposals left and right.

I wonder if the fact that we're at a point in the season where the worst team in the league is 5 points out of a playoff spot might affect the availability of legit scoring wingers?
I'm not saying he is. I'm saying after 7 years of being the GM, he has done nothing to fix it. Why would this year be any different? He made an amazing deal to get Hossa, Hossa left, and now he's scared to do it again? Some teams like the Devils thrive on strong defense. We do it with unbelievable talent. So get some for our best players, rather than trying to build through D just because thats what you did in Nashville.

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02-10-2013, 09:43 PM
  #136
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simply, we played too much of a perimeter game


seemed like every chance the devils got there was someone in front of the net. then look at our scoring chances and you'll rarely find a pens player there

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02-10-2013, 09:44 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
So Shero was in on a HUGE trade that would have helped this team, but the dance partner backed out... And this reflects negatively on Shero.. why?
in my opinion it was cause he took too long to decide, but who knows, maybe he lowballed, i'm just frustrated here and want him to make some move to bring in a vet that could influence our club

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02-10-2013, 09:44 PM
  #138
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Just wanted to add that, as high as my expectations were for Despres coming into this season he has actually exceeded them.(especially offensively)
Those injuries to Letang, Niskanen have been a blessing in disguise as far as his development is concerned (force Bylsma to give him more time, responsibility)
For the team sake though, Letang and Niskanen can't come back soon enough.

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02-10-2013, 09:45 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I don't believe they can with this system because it's completely predictable and literally kills almost all possibility of creative play-making and scoring chances. It takes what they're best at and nullifies it. It's a least common denominator system. Take the guys with the most blunted skills, and whichever system they can excel at, that's what we play IMO.

It worked in 2009 because teams hadn't seen it. Since then we've been shut down when it counts, all three times.

What's more I think this team is wayyy too comfortable with how much talent it has. They are so confident they can score a couple goals at any time, that even when there's two minutes left and they're down two, I see very little urgency from the Captain or anyone else. Everyone is calm as can be. And while that's not bad necessarily, I think it's counter productive at times. A little emotion and urgency in situations like that would help more than hurt IMO.

This team needs a shake up and I think it's going to get one.
You may be right. The trouble is we might know realize you're right until it's too late and we lose another frustrating playoff series.

As for a shakeup well...pretty obvious that a shakeup would involve a trade of some kind. I don't see Bylsma getting fired any time soon. It would take a massive losing streak for Shero to even consider that. Also bear in mind that Bylsma gets to use the excuse of no Letang & Niskanen. Shero gets to use that excuse too, actually. Shero could just look at the team and think they're fine for now and it's just Letang being out that's killing them. I and we obviously disagree with that but who knows what Shero is thinking?

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02-10-2013, 09:45 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
KIRK my friend, I share many of your expressed frustrations and viewpoints ... personally, I've found a number of inane posters only served to irritate me, so I've been using the ignore feature pretty liberally.

So, what do you think about this ... since neither Sid or Geno's line have been producing with any real consistency, let's move Kunitz back to Geno's line and try Cooke in his place. Gives us a line with a much more recent playing history/chemistry that's shown it can be relied on. Cooke can be a possible band-aid. Not sure BB is ready for the show, but if he's back from his injury, can't hurt to bring him up for a cup of coffee on Sid's line. Thoughts?
I'm not sure any of that is an answer at this point, because that approach is as flawed as the 'balanced' approach when the Pens get into a playoff type of game. It's partly management for constructing this roster. It's partly coaching, although I am loathe to go into details on something so controversial. And, clearly, it's partly players not executing.

Honestly, I don't think it makes a difference. Like last March, it's a playoff train wreck you can see coming a mile away. You hope Shero does something. You hope Bylsma learns to adjust. And, in the end, you're left to hope that Sid and Geno can overcome the deck stacked against them. Like last year, I'll hope again.

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02-10-2013, 09:45 PM
  #141
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----People *****ing about the stretch pass in this game. Note to all of you uneducated complainers. The red line was removed for the 2 line pass because the stretch pass is THE ONLY WAY to beat a trapping team. Unfortunately when a team can fall back into a trap, you either dump and grind, or try to skate through 3-4 people which doesn't work.

-----Fleury, only 20 saves on 23 shots. .869 save percentage, he sucks, trade him for a winger to go on Crosby's line. Wait, Fleury wasn't playing....Nevermind, goaltending wasn't the problem so........I know, lets fire the coach

+Anyone who realizes we lost 2 games to a good team that had 2 great performances from their goalies. I will be OK with winning 5 straight then losing 2 straight the rest of the season.

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02-10-2013, 09:46 PM
  #142
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I'm not saying he is. I'm saying after 7 years of being the GM, he has done nothing to fix it. Why would this year be any different? He made an amazing deal to get Hossa, Hossa left, and now he's scared to do it again? Some teams like the Devils thrive on strong defense. We do it with unbelievable talent. So get some for our best players, rather than trying to build through D just because thats what you did in Nashville.
Got Neal. Made offers to Parise (and Suter) in the summer. Tried to resign Hossa.

He's been trying, he can't force UFAs to sign here or force GMs to force feed him proven scoring wingers for unproven D prospects.

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02-10-2013, 09:46 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by zhenyas most fly rep View Post
Just wanted to add that, as high as my expectations were for Despres coming into this season he has actually exceeded them.(especially offensively)
Those injuries to Letang, Niskanen have been a blessing in disguise as far as his development is concerned (force Bylsma to give him more time, responsibility)
For the team sake though, Letang and Niskanen can't come back soon enough.
Our team ****ed up since Tanger went down, that's for sure

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02-10-2013, 09:46 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Against my better judgment, I'll ask you this in earnest: When you are outhustled as the Pens were today, is it because they players weren't into it or because they were so helplessly out of position so much that it looks that way?
I don't think positional play was much of a factor in our own-zone issues tonight. The opportunities to make clean exits out of the zone were there, we were just too slow/indecisive/sloppy to bear down and get it out. And NJ capitalized when they had their chances - they played an inspired, clinical game.

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EDIT: And why is it that the Pens most frequently are outhustled in games where the other team takes a playoff approach in terms of its preparations (be it in a playoff or regular season game)?
I don't see how you can justify the opinion that NJ takes any more of a playoff approach to preparations than any other team.

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02-10-2013, 09:46 PM
  #145
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There was actually one positive thing today Discipline. You gotta give the pens and DB credit for that today. Just wish they could play with this much discipline every game

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02-10-2013, 09:47 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I don't believe they can with this system because it's completely predictable and literally kills almost all possibility of creative play-making and scoring chances. It takes what 71 and 87 are best at and nullifies it. It's a least common denominator system. Take the guys with the most blunted skills, and whichever system they can excel at, that's what we play IMO.

It worked in 2009 because teams hadn't seen it. Since then we've been shut down when it counts, all three times.

What's more I think this team is wayyy too comfortable with how much talent it has. They are so confident they can score a couple goals at any time, that even when there's two minutes left and they're down two, I see very little urgency from the Captain or anyone else. Everyone is calm as can be. And while that's not bad necessarily, I think it's counter productive at times. A little emotion and urgency in situations like that would help more than hurt IMO.

This team needs a shake up and I think it's going to get one.
It also worked in 2009 because that system isn't this system. It was camp 2009 when Bylsma fully implemented his system. The results speak for themselves.

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02-10-2013, 09:47 PM
  #147
IcedCapp
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in my opinion it was cause he took too long to decide, but who knows, maybe he lowballed, i'm just frustrated here and want him to make some move to bring in a vet that could influence our club
maybe you have no clue what happened because you weren't there?

A trade can only break down because he took too long or low balled? Seriously? You sound rational.

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02-10-2013, 09:47 PM
  #148
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Said yesterday that it wasn't necessarily bad to have the Devils again this early, because we needed to see adjustments to New Jersey outperforming us as a team. Well... we didn't get that.
Perhaps it still isn't bad to get shown up in our own barn without being able to write it off as poor effort as against Isles and Toronto though.
It is easy to make fun of the time out by Bylsma, but there are several other issues for him to work on.

Would have liked Vokoun to do better in this one. The two goals that made everything uphill were both very nice shots, but also shots he could definitely see. Rebound on the third.... well.... I suppose the damage was done, and there sure wasn't much in the way of coverage from Brooks. You'd like him to better on the shot anyway.
Would have liked for Bortuzzo and Brooks to do more to challenge more on the first goals also, but basically these transition goals come down to Clarkson and Kovalchuk finding the target and us not doing the same on Moose when we had our chances.

Anyone know any injury related reason to Vitale being scratched? After being pretty much our most consistent solid player effort and execution wise, I think it seems more than a little strange otherwise. He has doubtlessly been the best player on our 4th line.

- Crosby's line hampered by Dupuis having a stone hands day. Seemed like they got closed down after the first period.
Malkin's line had some dangerous looks, I saw Boychuck set up Malkin for a good chance today also, but in the end it remains 6 games with no ES production, line is minus 2 today, and whether you agree with me or not on Boychuck never being the right fit for that line even if he himself plays well, you have to wonder how it is that a waiver pickup gets 6 games with no production there, whereas guys from within our system gets yanked from there on a shift to shift basis, even when the line is scoring. I don't even think any of Malkin, Neal or Boychuck played bad in this one.

I see that the GDT got heated and childish. Wonder if anyone will take offense if I point out that we have great difficulty exiting our own zone, and that New Jersey could seemingly step it up on us any time they wanted in the second and third period by applying a little more pressure on the forecheck and clamp down on the boards expecting the inevitable pass that shall not be named? Like - right after our PP goal, when we needed to get that momentum going, New Jersey decided to camp in our zone for two minutes.

+ more disciplined tonight. Of course then you can ask if we were too listless.
+ Jeffrey. Liked what I saw from Dustin.

- I hate Fayne. I don't think I can remember seeing a guy getting away with as many obstruction plays as he does... but good on him exploiting it I suppose.

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02-10-2013, 09:48 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
I'm not saying he is. I'm saying after 7 years of being the GM, he has done nothing to fix it. Why would this year be any different? He made an amazing deal to get Hossa, Hossa left, and now he's scared to do it again?

Meet James Neal.



He also tried Zach Parise but since we're not in Minnesota he didn't sign here.

Do you think these amazing deals are available and should happen every year or Shero is derelict in his duties?

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02-10-2013, 09:48 PM
  #150
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maybe you have no clue what happened because you weren't there?

A trade can only break down because he took too long or low balled? Seriously? You sound rational.
Dude, you don't understand. There was speculation that the Kings MAY have been shopping Brown and the Pens MIGHT have been one of the teams involved.

Sounds concrete. Way to blow it, Ray.

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