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Penguins - Devils 2/10/12 - NJ Got To Our Game Edition

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Old
02-10-2013, 09:48 PM
  #151
UnderratedBrooks44
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I didn't think any Penguin played particularly well or, in other words, was "plus worthy." Most weren't bad, just not good.

- Neal's penalty. Come on you jack ass. Right after going down 2-0 and a day after you did it in the last game. Unbelievable.

- Boychuk. It's pretty obvious the only reason he's breaking free once in awhile is because the other team wisely ignores him and focuses on the actual threats on that line. Oh well, someone from some other team will be playing in that position by the deadline.

- Kennedy. Just......UGH. You get the puck in your zone, stop, double clutch THREE TIMES, now 3 Penguins are well ahead of the play. Then you inadvertently ice the puck. Jesus Christ. I know he's not a huge producer, but did Staal's big body make this guy? I'm starting to wonder.

- Despres, I love you buddy but STOP PASSING THE PUCK TO THE OTHER TEAM. You have some games where you accidentally do it but half a dozen times in one game????? God almighty.

- In fairness to everyone, the sudden lack of D depth hurt them tonight. Reese is Lovejoy reincarnate. I respect Bylsma not wanting to split up Orpik and Martin, but when you've got Reese out there with Despres or Bortuzzo you're asking for trouble especially against a playoff team.

- The general jackassery of the team when down late in a game. THROW THE PUCK TO THE NET. Down two goals it's not a huge deal it's just incredibly annoying when, the last two games, there's less than a minute left in a 2 goal game and we're choosing not to shoot.

- I'd have made a nice day's pay if I got a nickel for every 50/50 puck the Devils won in our zone tonight.

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02-10-2013, 09:48 PM
  #152
KIRK
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I'm not saying he is. I'm saying after 7 years of being the GM, he has done nothing to fix it. Why would this year be any different? He made an amazing deal to get Hossa, Hossa left, and now he's scared to do it again? Some teams like the Devils thrive on strong defense. We do it with unbelievable talent. So get some for our best players, rather than trying to build through D just because thats what you did in Nashville.
But he got Neal too. That should be enough.

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02-10-2013, 09:49 PM
  #153
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I'm not saying he is. I'm saying after 7 years of being the GM, he has done nothing to fix it. Why would this year be any different? He made an amazing deal to get Hossa, Hossa left, and now he's scared to do it again? Some teams like the Devils thrive on strong defense. We do it with unbelievable talent. So get some for our best players, rather than trying to build through D just because thats what you did in Nashville.
Kunitz and Neal werent soild pickups? We could trade Crosby and Malkin to get the elite high paid wingers people want . I wish there wasn't a cap too, would be a lot more fun.

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02-10-2013, 09:50 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
I'm not saying he is. I'm saying after 7 years of being the GM, he has done nothing to fix it. Why would this year be any different? He made an amazing deal to get Hossa, Hossa left, and now he's scared to do it again? Some teams like the Devils thrive on strong defense. We do it with unbelievable talent. So get some for our best players, rather than trying to build through D just because thats what you did in Nashville.
Since the Hossa deal, Shero has signed and traded for several scoring wingers, two of whom have turned out very well. Thanks to the Staal trade, this is the first year in a long time that we've had both the assets and cap space to make a quality wing acquisition (rather than buy low on a promising one).

But we're 13 games in and people are criticizing Shero for not getting it done yet. That's the instant gratification crowd for you.

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02-10-2013, 09:50 PM
  #155
KIRK
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You may be right. The trouble is we might know realize you're right until it's too late and we lose another frustrating playoff series.

As for a shakeup well...pretty obvious that a shakeup would involve a trade of some kind. I don't see Bylsma getting fired any time soon. It would take a massive losing streak for Shero to even consider that. Also bear in mind that Bylsma gets to use the excuse of no Letang & Niskanen. Shero gets to use that excuse too, actually. Shero could just look at the team and think they're fine for now and it's just Letang being out that's killing them. I and we obviously disagree with that but who knows what Shero is thinking?
1. I do agree that there's an excuse . . . again.
2. At some point, wouldn't you expect a coach to say 'no Letang, no Niskanen, NJ is taking away the stretch pass, let's adjust?

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02-10-2013, 09:51 PM
  #156
Darth Vitale
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
But he got Neal too. That should be enough.
Common man, you know better than this. You guys act as if Shero was idle last summer / not trying to make big moves. Sometimes they don't work out, ya know? It's part of the game.

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02-10-2013, 09:51 PM
  #157
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Dude, you don't understand. There was speculation that the Kings MAY have been shopping Brown and the Pens MIGHT have been one of the teams involved.

Sounds concrete. Way to blow it, Ray.
That's what i was saying, I was only restating what I've heard through the media, I'm sorry I'm not connected with every ****ing person in all the NHL organizations...obviously I'm going to make assumptions like everyone else

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02-10-2013, 09:52 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
But he got Neal too. That should be enough.
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Originally Posted by nhindian View Post
Got Neal. Made offers to Parise (and Suter) in the summer. Tried to resign Hossa.

He's been trying, he can't force UFAs to sign here or force GMs to force feed him proven scoring wingers for unproven D prospects.
What do you suggest Ray do that he isn't already doing? Of course, I am assuming you know what he's up to since he hasn't gotten results!!

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02-10-2013, 09:52 PM
  #159
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
----People *****ing about the stretch pass in this game. Note to all of you uneducated complainers. The red line was removed for the 2 line pass because the stretch pass is THE ONLY WAY to beat a trapping team. Unfortunately when a team can fall back into a trap, you either dump and grind, or try to skate through 3-4 people which doesn't work.

-----Fleury, only 20 saves on 23 shots. .869 save percentage, he sucks, trade him for a winger to go on Crosby's line. Wait, Fleury wasn't playing....Nevermind, goaltending wasn't the problem so........I know, lets fire the coach

+Anyone who realizes we lost 2 games to a good team that had 2 great performances from their goalies. I will be OK with winning 5 straight then losing 2 straight the rest of the season.
Thank you for the education. I mistakenly assumed that coming through the neutral zone with speed (using short passes and to be in better position to chase dumps) was a viable way to beat a trap.

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02-10-2013, 09:53 PM
  #160
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That's what i was saying, I was only restating what I've heard through the media, I'm sorry I'm not connected with every ****ing person in all the NHL organizations...obviously I'm going to make assumptions like everyone else
Hmm...

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02-10-2013, 09:53 PM
  #161
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Look, these are much more excusable losses than the TOR, WPG, and NYI ones

Devils are solid all around; defending east champs

We are missing our top D pairing

Kovalchoo is in beast mode, he plays and excels in all situations, tons of ice time. He QBs the power play and always threatens to score shorthanded (just a little more than our entire PK crew ) Unreal how well he's fit in there.

Clarkson coming out of nowhere as a great power forward. The guy is 2nd in goals right now!

Hedberg outplayed Vokoun; goaltending was more of reason we lost this game than the last... Check out Hedberg's stats as a Devil sometime - they are insane


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02-10-2013, 09:53 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. I do agree that there's an excuse . . . again.
2. At some point, wouldn't you expect a coach to say 'no Letang, no Niskanen, NJ is taking away the stretch pass, let's adjust?
How is the team coming up with short passes going to do anything to counter the losses of Letang and Niskanen? Are rookies inherently better at short passes than long passes?

I'm not following this line of reasoning.

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02-10-2013, 09:53 PM
  #163
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't think positional play was much of a factor in our own-zone issues tonight. The opportunities to make clean exits out of the zone were there, we were just too slow/indecisive/sloppy to bear down and get it out. And NJ capitalized when they had their chances - they played an inspired, clinical game.



I don't see how you can justify the opinion that NJ takes any more of a playoff approach to preparations than any other team.
Unlike you, I didn't say it was one or the other. But, if you believe that it's a case of execution and not also coaching, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

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02-10-2013, 09:54 PM
  #164
nhindian
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Originally Posted by leafspensfan View Post
That's what i was saying, I was only restating what I've heard through the media, I'm sorry I'm not connected with every ****ing person in all the NHL organizations...obviously I'm going to make assumptions like everyone else
That's fine, but your alternate reality that you create with those assumptions isn't really a basis for criticizing Shero.

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02-10-2013, 09:54 PM
  #165
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Penguins need some rest, mentally and regroup. They just played 11 games every other day with travel either leaving or coming home. They looked flat at times during this mini series vs Jersey Shore.

Defense is not bad. It wasn't bad defensive games.

Offensively every line has a hole (liability). There isn't one line where all three forwards are frickin' clicking. I think it might be a time to reunite Kunitz with Neal and Malkin. At least create a little more space for Neal and Geno-5 on 5 wise.

Otherwise it was great to see where we're at against on of the most well coached and defending East champs. Just some fine tuning needed here.

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02-10-2013, 09:55 PM
  #166
Darth Vitale
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There are no excusable losses but I agree today's was easier to stomach than yesterday's or the Islanders loss. They're just the better team right now, plain and simple. Better coached, better disciplined, better at making the most of their opportunities, better at frustrating the other team.

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02-10-2013, 09:55 PM
  #167
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I'm not sure any of that is an answer at this point, because that approach is as flawed as the 'balanced' approach when the Pens get into a playoff type of game. It's partly management for constructing this roster. It's partly coaching, although I am loathe to go into details on something so controversial. And, clearly, it's partly players not executing.

Honestly, I don't think it makes a difference. Like last March, it's a playoff train wreck you can see coming a mile away. You hope Shero does something. You hope Bylsma learns to adjust. And, in the end, you're left to hope that Sid and Geno can overcome the deck stacked against them. Like last year, I'll hope again.
Not an answer, no ... more of a band-aid. The revolving door on Geno's wing would be a bit more bearable if the other top line were scoring more consistently. Just a thought. And maybe not the best of ones The other draw back to that would be that it might just mask issues that have needed addressed for a while now. Like those controversial thoughts you're loathe to discuss

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02-10-2013, 09:56 PM
  #168
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That's fine, but your alternate reality that you create with those assumptions isn't really a basis for criticizing Shero.
you're right, i guess I'm just frustrated and blaming Shero, should probably lay off him

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02-10-2013, 09:56 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Said yesterday that it wasn't necessarily bad to have the Devils again this early, because we needed to see adjustments to New Jersey outperforming us as a team. Well... we didn't get that.
Perhaps it still isn't bad to get shown up in our own barn without being able to write it off as poor effort as against Isles and Toronto though.
It is easy to make fun of the time out by Bylsma, but there are several other issues for him to work on.

Would have liked Vokoun to do better in this one. The two goals that made everything uphill were both very nice shots, but also shots he could definitely see. Rebound on the third.... well.... I suppose the damage was done, and there sure wasn't much in the way of coverage from Brooks. You'd like him to better on the shot anyway.
Would have liked for Bortuzzo and Brooks to do more to challenge more on the first goals also, but basically these transition goals come down to Clarkson and Kovalchuk finding the target and us not doing the same on Moose when we had our chances.

Anyone know any injury related reason to Vitale being scratched? After being pretty much our most consistent solid player effort and execution wise, I think it seems more than a little strange otherwise. He has doubtlessly been the best player on our 4th line.

- Crosby's line hampered by Dupuis having a stone hands day. Seemed like they got closed down after the first period.
Malkin's line had some dangerous looks, I saw Boychuck set up Malkin for a good chance today also, but in the end it remains 6 games with no ES production, line is minus 2 today, and whether you agree with me or not on Boychuck never being the right fit for that line even if he himself plays well, you have to wonder how it is that a waiver pickup gets 6 games with no production there, whereas guys from within our system gets yanked from there on a shift to shift basis, even when the line is scoring. I don't even think any of Malkin, Neal or Boychuck played bad in this one.

I see that the GDT got heated and childish. Wonder if anyone will take offense if I point out that we have great difficulty exiting our own zone, and that New Jersey could seemingly step it up on us any time they wanted in the second and third period by applying a little more pressure on the forecheck and clamp down on the boards expecting the inevitable pass that shall not be named? Like - right after our PP goal, when we needed to get that momentum going, New Jersey decided to camp in our zone for two minutes.

+ more disciplined tonight. Of course then you can ask if we were too listless.
+ Jeffrey. Liked what I saw from Dustin.

- I hate Fayne. I don't think I can remember seeing a guy getting away with as many obstruction plays as he does... but good on him exploiting it I suppose.
TR, that is a depressingly accurate assessment of the game tonight, aside of course from any emphasis on the necessity for adjustments.

EDIT: One thing on the zone exits. The puck support is an absolute joke. Watch how NJ supported on the zone exits against an aggressive forecheck. Watch how the Pens do it. That's not all on the players.

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02-10-2013, 09:57 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. I do agree that there's an excuse . . . again.
2. At some point, wouldn't you expect a coach to say 'no Letang, no Niskanen, NJ is taking away the stretch pass, let's adjust?
OK What are you going to adjust to super genius???? Huh, please fill us in on the easy adjustments that our stupid Jack Adams winning coach just doesn't seem to be able to make. How do you beat the trap? You obviously have all the answers so please share with us chief!

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02-10-2013, 09:58 PM
  #171
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We could trade Crosby for Perry and Ryan . Then trade Malkin for Hossa and Kane . There's our wingers. Then get kris beech and Toby Petersen to center them.

Then people can create usernames such as nocenters

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02-10-2013, 09:58 PM
  #172
KIRK
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Common man, you know better than this. You guys act as if Shero was idle last summer / not trying to make big moves. Sometimes they don't work out, ya know? It's part of the game.
Actually, I do know he's trying. Dan Bylsma tries. Is the standard trying or cups?

EDIT: Not nice, perhaps unfair, to ask it that way. But, it is what it is. At some point, results matter for everyone.

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02-10-2013, 10:00 PM
  #173
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This has actually been one of the better losses, heck I felt we played better than in a few of those five wins, still we are not as good a team as Devils, our goalies are a notch below theirs, and their style is just something we don't have an answer for under normal
It's not just trapping, Devils spent most of their time cycling behind our net, there was a series where Malkin's line could not come out of our zone for two consecutive shifts

I actually thought that Malkin had an OK game, he had bunch of takeaways but didn't do much with that they just couldn't put any pressure down low, but if the ice was a bit tilted on our side he may have scored once or twice
Sid on the other hand meh, a lot of people already noticed a trend of him stoping in the middle of a rush and trying to feed Dupuis instead of going for a kill.
If our goalie was as good as Moose this would be a tie game...
Sometimes I think our problem is that we think we have two best players in the world when that really is not true, they look more like a little bit above average players, with flashes of greatness..
Our defense is fine, hope Tanger and Nisky come soon, that will help

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02-10-2013, 10:01 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Actually, I do know he's trying. Dan Bylsma tries. Is the standard trying or cups?

EDIT: Not nice, perhaps unfair, to ask it that way. But, it is what it is. At some point, results matter for everyone.
Please answer how you want Shero to force GMs to trade him proven wingers for scraps and unproven D prospects.

TIA!

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02-10-2013, 10:01 PM
  #175
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What do you suggest Ray do that he isn't already doing? Of course, I am assuming you know what he's up to since he hasn't gotten results!!
What does it matter what he's up to. Either you get results or you don't. If that's the standard that I apply to the coaches, then I also think it should apply to the GM. The playoffs are what matters, and at some point there should be a limit placed on the importance of excuses (even intellectually valid excuses) and effort.

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