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Penguins - Devils 2/10/12 - NJ Got To Our Game Edition

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:02 PM
  #176
WarriorScholar
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Originally Posted by nhindian View Post
Please answer how you want Shero to force GMs to trade him proven wingers for scraps and unproven D prospects.

TIA!
* 13 games into the season.

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02-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #177
nhindian
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Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
We could trade Crosby for Perry and Ryan . Then trade Malkin for Hossa and Kane . There's our wingers. Then get kris beech and Toby Petersen to center them.

Then people can create usernames such as nocenters
But we still have Vitale and DJ!

Ryan - Vitale - Perry
Kunitz - Jeffry - Hossa
Dupuis - Sutter - Kane
Orpik - Adams - Neal

Yes!

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02-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by nhindian View Post
Please answer how you want Shero to force GMs to trade him proven wingers for scraps and unproven D prospects.

TIA!
Shero can't force anyone to do anything.

Ah, I see, it's not his fault . . . he's trying, but he can only do so much. Just like Bylsma. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

The standard clearly isn't really the standard for the Penguins.

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02-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #179
billybudd
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Just going to continue to reiterate that every single even strength goal scored by the Malkin/Neal line since Boychuk was added to it has come when someone other than Boychuk was the third player on it and that I do not believe this to be coincidental.

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02-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #180
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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The actual facts of Shero's wing acquisition history don't seem to matter much to his critics. They want more scoring wingers at least as good as Kunitz and they want them right now.

Bash other GMs' heads against radiators until they oblige, I suppose.

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02-10-2013, 10:04 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhindian View Post
Please answer how you want Shero to force GMs to trade him proven wingers for scraps and unproven D prospects.

TIA!
As much as I agree with this, I think we can do better than Kennedy, Adams and Dupuis on this team, I'm not saying you can get a bonafide winger with these players, but we can get better players with these players, draft picks and prospects...

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02-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Shero can't force anyone to do anything.

Ah, I see, it's not his fault . . . he's trying, but he can only do so much. Just like Bylsma. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

The standard clearly isn't really the standard for the Penguins.
So... you want Shero to fire Bylsma, since that's really the only thing he can do right now at this point in the season.

And replace him with who? And that'll solve everything, right?

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02-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #183
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I can't harp on Bylsma too much, but I honestly thought our players played well minus three minor mistakes. Devils are the kings of conversion. They just kill it.

The fact we never changed our breakout kills me. The way to beat the trap is to come up with speed. I can't preach it any more. It's so simple.

But Danny B did some decent line matching tonight. I thought he picked good spots to put Sid/Geno together.

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02-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Actually, I do know he's trying. Dan Bylsma tries. Is the standard trying or cups?
Actually, only one of those two men has made attempts for real change in the last two seasons. Bylsma continues to do exactly what he always does (barring some PP musical chairs). Shero has done quite a lot to shake things up, and with some success. Martin and Michalek, Neal and Nisky, Parise and Suter, Sutter for Staal....

Shero is one of the best GMs in hockey. Not just during the Hossa year. This year. Last year. Do you guys watch what other GMs do year in and year out? Is there someone who is consistently better than Shero I am missing? Look at a guy like Sather or Holmgren, sure they make huge moves that work sometimes, but they also have stuff blow up in their face because they basically throw **** at the wall and see what sticks. I'll take Shero's more patient approach for the right timing and trade partner any day.

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02-10-2013, 10:06 PM
  #185
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The people mocking others for actually giving Shero time to pickup a winger or two , will admit no wrong when he actually does near the deadline. We've picked up someone every year, why this year would be different especially considering there is a glaring need, is beyond me. But of course, we should have been able to talk the leafs into giving us kulemin by now....who cares if they haven't made the playoffs in 8 years and are constantly under scrutiny by their fan base...we are the penguins...if we want your guy...he should be ours

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02-10-2013, 10:06 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
How is the team coming up with short passes going to do anything to counter the losses of Letang and Niskanen? Are rookies inherently better at short passes than long passes?

I'm not following this line of reasoning.
You have to realize super coach KIRK has the answers Stupid people don't realize that the trap is meant to clog the neutral zone, yet people expect us to have speed through the neutral zone with all of these quick passes.....It just doesn't work that way. But don't try to explain that to them, they will just tell you that Sid and Geno are just so awesome that they consistently have to overcome having the worst coach in the league, and the worst goalie on day MAF plays.


Last edited by Ogelthorpe: 02-10-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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02-10-2013, 10:06 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by leafspensfan View Post
As much as I agree with this, I think we can do better than Kennedy, Adams and Dupuis on this team, I'm not saying you can get a bonafide winger with these players, but we can get better players with these players, draft picks and prospects...
Only if another GM is willing to take them, especially when most teams have only played 10-14 games.

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02-10-2013, 10:06 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
OK What are you going to adjust to super genius???? Huh, please fill us in on the easy adjustments that our stupid Jack Adams winning coach just doesn't seem to be able to make. How do you beat the trap? You obviously have all the answers so please share with us chief!
The only answer I have is to use stretch passes to double covered forwards standing still at the blueline that the forward then chips into the offensive zone for two other forwards standing still at the blueline to outhustle in a race for the puck defensemen already starting to skate back. Isn't that the ONLY way to beat the trap?

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02-10-2013, 10:07 PM
  #189
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You know what's strange? We looked more cohesive as a team last year with Crosby out than with him in, probably because when he's out we can blow our winger load all on Malkin, but when he's in, we're spread too thin and then both Crosby and Malkin suffer because each gets a sub par winger with them.

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02-10-2013, 10:07 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Just going to continue to reiterate that every single even strength goal scored by the Malkin/Neal line since Boychuk was added to it has come when someone other than Boychuk was the third player on it and that I do not believe this to be coincidental.
If your point is that Boychuk stinks we could've all told you that and saved you some research.

By the way, do we really have to dominate the thread with the winger stuff? Go to the other thread seriously.

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02-10-2013, 10:07 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I can't harp on Bylsma too much, but I honestly thought our players played well minus three minor mistakes. Devils are the kings of conversion. They just kill it.

The fact we never changed our breakout kills me. The way to beat the trap is to come up with speed. I can't preach it any more. It's so simple.


But Danny B did some decent line matching tonight. I thought he picked good spots to put Sid/Geno together.
But Oglethorpe said only the stretch pass beats the trap.

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02-10-2013, 10:08 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Actually, only one of those two men has made attempts for real chance in the last two seasons. Bylsma continues to do exactly what he always does (barring some PP musical chairs). Shero has done quite a lot to shake things up, and with some success. Martin and Michalek, Neal and Nisky, Parise and Suter, Sutter for Staal....

Shero is one of the best GMs in hockey. Not just during the Hossa year. This year. Last year. Do you guys watch what other GMs do year in and year out? Is there someone who is consistently better than Shero I am missing? Look at a guy like Sather or Holmgren, sure they make huge moves that work sometimes, but they also have stuff blow up in their face because they just basically throw **** at the wall and see what sticks. I'll take Shero's more patient approach for the right timing and trade partner any day.
Glenn Sather aka the guy who fleeced the **** out of the Jackets
Maybe Chiarelli, but other than that I see your point

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02-10-2013, 10:08 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Said yesterday that it wasn't necessarily bad to have the Devils again this early, because we needed to see adjustments to New Jersey outperforming us as a team. Well... we didn't get that.
Perhaps it still isn't bad to get shown up in our own barn without being able to write it off as poor effort as against Isles and Toronto though.
It is easy to make fun of the time out by Bylsma, but there are several other issues for him to work on.

Would have liked Vokoun to do better in this one. The two goals that made everything uphill were both very nice shots, but also shots he could definitely see. Rebound on the third.... well.... I suppose the damage was done, and there sure wasn't much in the way of coverage from Brooks. You'd like him to better on the shot anyway.
Would have liked for Bortuzzo and Brooks to do more to challenge more on the first goals also, but basically these transition goals come down to Clarkson and Kovalchuk finding the target and us not doing the same on Moose when we had our chances.

Anyone know any injury related reason to Vitale being scratched? After being pretty much our most consistent solid player effort and execution wise, I think it seems more than a little strange otherwise. He has doubtlessly been the best player on our 4th line.

- Crosby's line hampered by Dupuis having a stone hands day. Seemed like they got closed down after the first period.
Malkin's line had some dangerous looks, I saw Boychuck set up Malkin for a good chance today also, but in the end it remains 6 games with no ES production, line is minus 2 today, and whether you agree with me or not on Boychuck never being the right fit for that line even if he himself plays well, you have to wonder how it is that a waiver pickup gets 6 games with no production there, whereas guys from within our system gets yanked from there on a shift to shift basis, even when the line is scoring. I don't even think any of Malkin, Neal or Boychuck played bad in this one.

I see that the GDT got heated and childish. Wonder if anyone will take offense if I point out that we have great difficulty exiting our own zone, and that New Jersey could seemingly step it up on us any time they wanted in the second and third period by applying a little more pressure on the forecheck and clamp down on the boards expecting the inevitable pass that shall not be named? Like - right after our PP goal, when we needed to get that momentum going, New Jersey decided to camp in our zone for two minutes.

+ more disciplined tonight. Of course then you can ask if we were too listless.
+ Jeffrey. Liked what I saw from Dustin.

- I hate Fayne. I don't think I can remember seeing a guy getting away with as many obstruction plays as he does... but good on him exploiting it I suppose.
Agree with your post as a whole(as always?) but the bold and underlined part can't be stated enough.

It doesn't matter as well as he's playing (and he might even get some points here and there eventually) as long as he's not doing what the line needs him to do to have some success. (third wheel job)
Not his fault though, he's just not that type of player.
Neal and Malkin two man game has especially suffered since he's been brought to the line.

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02-10-2013, 10:09 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
* 13 games into the season.
And last year?

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02-10-2013, 10:10 PM
  #195
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Rossi seems to think the Pens plan on trying Bennett out some time before the deadline to see if he's a fit.

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02-10-2013, 10:10 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Just going to continue to reiterate that every single even strength goal scored by the Malkin/Neal line since Boychuk was added to it has come when someone other than Boychuk was the third player on it and that I do not believe this to be coincidental.
No, it is a coincidence. Malkin and Neal have played lousy since Boychuk got on their line.

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02-10-2013, 10:11 PM
  #197
nhindian
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
You know what's strange? We looked more cohesive as a team last year with Crosby out than with him in, probably because when he's out we can blow our winger load all on Malkin, but when he's in, we're spread too thin and then both Crosby and Malkin suffer because each gets a sub par winger with them.
Malkin won a Conn Smythe (14g-22a-36p) in 2009 playing with Fedotenko and Talbot.

Not sure I buy the fact that Malkin cannot produce 5v5 because he only has one 40+g All-Star winger on his line.

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02-10-2013, 10:11 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
Rossi seems to think the Pens plan on trying Bennett out some time before the deadline to see if he's a fit.
Rossi also seems to think that Malkin and Neal have been killing penalties at even strength most of the year. So, what does he know?

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02-10-2013, 10:11 PM
  #199
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Rossi seems to think the Pens plan on trying Bennett out some time before the deadline to see if he's a fit.
do they honestly feel that he's ready?

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02-10-2013, 10:11 PM
  #200
ColePens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
But Oglethorpe said only the stretch pass beats the trap.
The trap FEEDS off the stretch pass. That's what it wants. The ideal thing would be for the defense to skate to pressure forcing the first guy in the trap to finally move. THen you need layers of puck support with 4-5 foot passes/chips/charges.

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