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Bylsma/coaching staff discussion thread II

View Poll Results: So can Bylsma still lead them to the promised land?
Sure why not, Bylsma’s system is fine. The team will win another cup with him 40 33.33%
Nah, Bylsma has a better chance of winning dancing with the stars than another cup 80 66.67%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:52 PM
  #276
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
People think Jeffrey, a healthy scratch for most of the year, has more offense than Sutter? Only Pens fans.


I think Bylsma will make it a one line team again like he did last year with Geno.

Kunitz Sid Neal
Bennett Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Jeffrey TK
4th line


This will make for good ammo for the Sid vs Geno argument
pretty much this, I just think Cooke and Bennett could be switched because I think Sutter will still see the majority of defensive zone faceoffs and they'd rather Bennett starting in the o-zone as much as possible.

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02-23-2013, 02:05 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
People think Jeffrey, a healthy scratch for most of the year, has more offense than Sutter? Only Pens fans.


I think Bylsma will make it a one line team again like he did last year with Geno.

Kunitz Sid Neal
Bennett Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Jeffrey TK
4th line


This will make for good ammo for the Sid vs Geno argument
Disrupt the entire team sans 4th line?

Not a good idea, and should only be worse case scenario.

Kunitz, Crosby, Dupuis
Bennett/Cooke, Sutter, Neal
Bennett/Cooke, Jeffrey, TK
Glass, Vitale, Adams

This should force Shero into a move though if it's a long-term issue with, Geno. Long-term meaning for this season that's very short. Long-term= month.

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02-23-2013, 02:12 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
People think Jeffrey, a healthy scratch for most of the year, has more offense than Sutter? Only Pens fans.
In the two games Bylsma has let him play in, yes he clearly has more offensive ability than Sutter. He can make plays. Sutter is not a playmaker, he's a dump and chase guy.

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02-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #279
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If Bylsma does stick with Cooke-Sutter-Neal it should be at least interesting to see how Sutter performs with a full line of good players. I feel like he has untapped offensive potential that has been mostly stifled playing with TK.

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02-23-2013, 02:47 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Zatch88 View Post
In the two games Bylsma has let him play in, yes he clearly has more offensive ability than Sutter. He can make plays. Sutter is not a playmaker, he's a dump and chase guy.
What are you basing this off of? Crazy how this is SO CLEAR to you yet Bylsma keeps scratching him in favor of a dime a dozen 4th liner in Vitale.

Sutter has almost the same number of goals as Jeffrey has games played. Sutter has scored 20 goals and 40 points in a season before. Sutter would be a decent 2nd line center on some teams.

Jeffrey hasn't proven anything, regardless of how much Pens fans want him to do well just so they can see a home grown offensive player who wasn't a top 2 pick succeed.

I will say that Jeffrey should get every opportunity to prove himself as 3C and perhaps as Geno's LW.

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02-23-2013, 04:35 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Zatch88 View Post
In the two games Bylsma has let him play in, yes he clearly has more offensive ability than Sutter. He can make plays. Sutter is not a playmaker, he's a dump and chase guy.
Sutter has been coming on lately and I was an advocate of Jeffrey playing over Vitale or Kennedy since game 1 of this shortened season.

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02-23-2013, 04:44 PM
  #282
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So I'm wondering just how long DB will have to keep playing Despres/Bortuzzo/Bennett before he loses the stereotype of not playing young players just because they're young.

We can take issue with DB's choices sometimes, but it's clear to me that if Bylsma feels they're the best player for the role, he'll play them regardless of their age or experience.

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02-23-2013, 04:52 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
So I'm wondering just how long DB will have to keep playing Despres/Bortuzzo/Bennett before he loses the stereotype of not playing young players just because they're young.

We can take issue with DB's choices sometimes, but it's clear to me that if Bylsma feels they're the best player for the role, he'll play them regardless of their age or experience.
Not exactly a lot of choice, especially on D. Lets wait and see if they sign eaton to play regular minutes.

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02-23-2013, 05:30 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
So I'm wondering just how long DB will have to keep playing Despres/Bortuzzo/Bennett before he loses the stereotype of not playing young players just because they're young.

We can take issue with DB's choices sometimes, but it's clear to me that if Bylsma feels they're the best player for the role, he'll play them regardless of their age or experience.
He kept his word of keeping BB on the third line for three games, then as he promised, moved him to line two for game four. You have to have an anti-DB agenda not to give him props for that.

It's a start, but I have to see guys like TK and Engo being benched to believe he is playing the best guys and not favoring vets.

With the way TK is playing now and how Vitale is playing, I don't see how anyone can argue Vitale should be the one sitting.

TK had several dumb turnovers, got benched, came back, had a dumb penalty and got rewarded with PP time.

Really?

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02-23-2013, 05:48 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
TK had several dumb turnovers, got benched, came back, had a dumb penalty and got rewarded with PP time.

Really?
This is my biggest take away outside of the Geno injury. So freaking dumb.

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02-23-2013, 05:59 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Not exactly a lot of choice, especially on D. Lets wait and see if they sign eaton to play regular minutes.
You don't think Bylsma had Despres and Bortuzzo on the roster by design? He could've had Shero sign a few stop-gap veterans on the back end and he didn't, and it certainly wasn't because of a lack of cap space.

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02-23-2013, 06:25 PM
  #287
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
This is my biggest take away outside of the Geno injury. So freaking dumb.
I understand trying to give your vets leeway, but DB just has issues benching his vets and being a disciplinarian. I think it is a huge issue he needs to fix.

I'm trying to think of the last vet he benched for poor play. Did guys like Martin, Orpik or Michalek ever get benched last season? I don't recall it happening, but could be wrong.

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02-23-2013, 06:38 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I understand trying to give your vets leeway, but DB just has issues benching his vets and being a disciplinarian. I think it is a huge issue he needs to fix.

I'm trying to think of the last vet he benched for poor play. Did guys like Martin, Orpik or Michalek ever get benched last season? I don't recall it happening, but could be wrong.
At first we thought Martin got benched/scratched in the playoffs for his poor play, but didn't it turn out he was actually injured and that was the reason for him not playing?

KIRK would also tell you Malkin gets benched for about 2 minutes per game.

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02-23-2013, 06:41 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
At first we thought Martin got benched/scratched in the playoffs for his poor play, but didn't it turn out he was actually injured and that was the reason for him not playing?

KIRK would also tell you Malkin gets benched for about 2 minutes per game.
Didn't Martin have a concussion? Or concussion like symptoms?

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02-23-2013, 06:43 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Didn't Martin have a concussion? Or concussion like symptoms?
I believe that's what was eventually revealed, yes. But until we knew that, that was as close to a veteran being benched as we've seen. As it turned out, it wasn't actually a veteran being benched.

So to answer your question ... I honestly can't recall one, not unless you count the scrubs we pick off the scrap heap like Mike Comrie. He didn't get much leash when it came to ice time.

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02-23-2013, 06:44 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
He kept his word of keeping BB on the third line for three games, then as he promised, moved him to line two for game four. You have to have an anti-DB agenda not to give him props for that.

It's a start, but I have to see guys like TK and Engo being benched to believe he is playing the best guys and not favoring vets.

With the way TK is playing now and how Vitale is playing, I don't see how anyone can argue Vitale should be the one sitting.

TK had several dumb turnovers, got benched, came back, had a dumb penalty and got rewarded with PP time.

Really?
I don't see any reason whatsoever to bench Engelland. TK's not playing well, but Engelland's performing just fine. Neither Bort nor Despres are contributing more or making fewer mistakes than Engo when they're in the line-up. He settles things down right quick when things get heated, and he's an effective defenseman to boot.

TK's getting opportunities to rebound, but as the brief benching showed, patience is wearing thin.

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02-23-2013, 06:46 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I believe that's what was eventually revealed, yes. But until we knew that, that was as close to a veteran being benched as we've seen. As it turned out, it wasn't actually a veteran being benched.

So to answer your question ... I honestly can't recall one, not unless you count the scrubs we pick off the scrap heap like Mike Comrie. He didn't get much leash when it came to ice time.
I think Comrie had a bad hip (resisting urge to insert a joke), and that is why he wasn't playing much.

I'm just honestly trying to find a case where DB showed he can be a disciplinarian and benched a non waiver wire type vet.

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02-23-2013, 06:46 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I understand trying to give your vets leeway, but DB just has issues benching his vets and being a disciplinarian. I think it is a huge issue he needs to fix.

I'm trying to think of the last vet he benched for poor play. Did guys like Martin, Orpik or Michalek ever get benched last season? I don't recall it happening, but could be wrong.
He did bench a very popular and established Pens veteran in Sykora on our way to the Cup..

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02-23-2013, 06:51 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't see any reason whatsoever to bench Engelland. TK's not playing well, but Engelland's performing just fine. Neither Bort nor Despres are contributing more or making fewer mistakes than Engo when they're in the line-up. He settles things down right quick when things get heated, and he's an effective defenseman to boot.

TK's getting opportunities to rebound, but as the brief benching showed, patience is wearing thin.
Engo's not played that well this season. We can go back and forth on if he deserves to play over Bort/Despres, but there is really no defense for TK playing over Vitale.

I don't think it is unreasonable for DB to finally hold a vet accountable and TK is a guy who needs a seat for a game or two.

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02-23-2013, 06:51 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
You don't think Bylsma had Despres and Bortuzzo on the roster by design? He could've had Shero sign a few stop-gap veterans on the back end and he didn't, and it certainly wasn't because of a lack of cap space.
I honestly have no clue. I wish I did. I'd love a front office job. "Vice President of Reading Message Boards and Freaking Out."

I'd do an ace job. I want to see what happens with Eaton. And he's not exactly letting Bort and Despres (or Engelland for that matter) play. (More on this in a bit)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I understand trying to give your vets leeway, but DB just has issues benching his vets and being a disciplinarian. I think it is a huge issue he needs to fix.

I'm trying to think of the last vet he benched for poor play. Did guys like Martin, Orpik or Michalek ever get benched last season? I don't recall it happening, but could be wrong.
The 3rd period just made no sense to me. Presumably you bench him in the 2nd because he's been bad. I understand letting him come back out in the 3rd, but then the first thing he does when he comes on the ice is take a penalty... and then you reward that with consistent minutes and PP time? What is the message supposed to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't see any reason whatsoever to bench Engelland. TK's not playing well, but Engelland's performing just fine. Neither Bort nor Despres are contributing more or making fewer mistakes than Engo when they're in the line-up. He settles things down right quick when things get heated, and he's an effective defenseman to boot.

TK's getting opportunities to rebound, but as the brief benching showed, patience is wearing thin.
Here's my biggest problem with the D: let the 5/6/7 guys play. There is absolutely no reason to be riding the top-4 as hard as they are. I understand it's a shortened season and you need to win as many games as possible and what not, but Engo and Despreggasus got 11:30 last night. Despres should be seeing the ice more. He's really quite good.

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02-23-2013, 06:53 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
He did bench a very popular and established Pens veteran in Sykora on our way to the Cup..
Ok that's a good example.

But playing devil's advocate, Sykora wasn't one of his "guys" though. He just got there and Sykora was playing so ****** it was an obvious move.

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02-23-2013, 07:02 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Engo's not played that well this season. We can go back and forth on if he deserves to play over Bort/Despres, but there is really no defense for TK playing over Vitale.

I don't think it is unreasonable for DB to finally hold a vet accountable and TK is a guy who needs a seat for a game or two.
Coaches always give their established players more rope than fans. I know you've given examples of vets being benched, but for every struggling vet that's benched I'm sure there are 10 others around the league who've been kept in their line-ups to try to find their game.

I know you like Vitale and Jeffrey (I do too), but a veteran with TK's track record of production still has some weight, and neither of these guys is the difference between winning and losing. We're still winning, so as long as that's happening and TK isn't a total train wreck out there, he's going to stick around.

Not to mention, if we were in the habit of benching players for taking dumb penalties, we'd have benched half the roster at one point or other this year.

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02-23-2013, 07:05 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Here's my biggest problem with the D: let the 5/6/7 guys play. There is absolutely no reason to be riding the top-4 as hard as they are. I understand it's a shortened season and you need to win as many games as possible and what not, but Engo and Despreggasus got 11:30 last night. Despres should be seeing the ice more. He's really quite good.
Before the criticism was that DB wouldn't give rookies a spot in the line-up, now the criticism is that they're not getting enough time.

If we gave Bortuzzo and Despres 20 minutes a night, some people would be complaining that they weren't getting 21.

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02-23-2013, 07:06 PM
  #299
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Ok that's a good example.

But playing devil's advocate, Sykora wasn't one of his "guys" though. He just got there and Sykora was playing so ****** it was an obvious move.
Well, if TK starts playing that bad, I guess that's when we can expect a benching, haha.

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02-23-2013, 07:09 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Before the criticism was that DB wouldn't give rookies a spot in the line-up, now the criticism is that they're not getting enough time.

If we gave Bortuzzo and Despres 20 minutes a night, some people would be complaining that they weren't getting 21.
No dude.

You're overcompensating for people you believe complain about DB too much. He doesn't give younger players a shot, he doesn't hold stinky vets accountable (at least in ways visible to fans), and his usage of the people on D makes no sense to me.

And I didn't say anything about Bort's ice time.

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