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Old
03-09-2013, 10:17 PM
  #151
Sky04
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Originally Posted by dbieon12 View Post
We can argue whether the players or the coach or Bettman is the problem. But the solution is Cooper or another coach. Sadly it is the easiest move that can stimulate a change in the culture: one that accepts mediocrity (being generous) and losing. Cooper has a track record of winning, has players who outperform their regular abilities and has earned an opportunity at the NHL level.

I'm interested in the players only meeting tonight and even letting Boucher stay the season, but I'd expect some improvement from the team between now and then.
Honestly Boucher isn't completely to blame either, but he's lost his ablity to light the fire under these guys like when he first came in. Lets not forget he brilliantly made a system that let our terribad D-corps of 2011 look decent and strong enough to reach the ECF.

If he can doesn't have a huge ego, I wouldn't mind him staying as an assistant coach or some sorts, I just think he could have way to much of an imapct on another team under the right circumstances, especially if it's a division rival.

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03-09-2013, 10:17 PM
  #152
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Really don't want to see Tampa lose Cooper after this year to another organization. One thing that keeps getting recognized is how well the call-ups perform when they see game action - that's a sign that Cooper can develop guys to play at this level. Replace Boucher with Cooper in the summer if that is what it takes to hold on to him.

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03-09-2013, 10:20 PM
  #153
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I just don't understand Boucher's ice distribution and constant line juggling. I don't know if its panic or over coaching either one is a problem. Two of his better players the last couple of games Palat and Conacher sit on the bench most of the night. Why ??

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03-09-2013, 10:32 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Honestly Boucher isn't completely to blame either, but he's lost his ablity to light the fire under these guys like when he first came in. Lets not forget he brilliantly made a system that let our terribad D-corps of 2011 look decent and strong enough to reach the ECF.

If he can doesn't have a huge ego, I wouldn't mind him staying as an assistant coach or some sorts, I just think he could have way to much of an imapct on another team under the right circumstances, especially if it's a division rival.
Just think Guy's system is not well suited for the NHL, especially if you have to have the perfect type players to make it work. The team did reach the ECF in his first season which was impressive, but since then this team has regressed with "better" players added. How much of that success in 2011 was due to Roloson bailing out the defensive play, or to the fact that the system was "new" and since then other teams have adapted to it, or to the help of having Fleming on the staff with his widespread experience. Although, Guy does deserve alot of credit with the psychological manuevering he did for each of those playoff series with his press conferences, etc.

Changes have to be made, at least with his assistants and adaptations made to this system.

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03-09-2013, 10:40 PM
  #155
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I think the girl in the "Is More Better" commercial stole Guy Bouchers' pre-game speech.

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Old
03-09-2013, 10:47 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
I think the girl in the "Is More Better" commercial stole Guy Bouchers' pre-game speech.
Good god, that girl needs to shut up.

Also, I said earlier that I really like Boucher.

But Jon Cooper seems to be ****ing GOD.

He will have an NHL job next season.

This is quite the quandary.

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03-09-2013, 10:56 PM
  #157
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Having Lindy Ruff available is a no brainer!!!! He was in Buffalo for 15 years

Hire

Lindy Ruff...Head Coach

Andy Moog...Goalie Coach

Assistants...Anyone...Cooper etc...

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Old
03-09-2013, 10:57 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Colonel Klinkhammer View Post
Good god, that girl needs to shut up.

Also, I said earlier that I really like Boucher.

But Jon Cooper seems to be ****ing GOD.

He will have an NHL job next season.

This is quite the quandary.
Unfortunately in every position there are great people that just don't have the answers or the experience to deal with problems they're unfamiliar with. Guy may be one of them and Cooper may not be the answer either. As you said - this is a quandary that thankfully is SFY's problem to deal with. I myself like Boucher also. Nice guy, intelligent, but maybe his background in sports psychology has him over analyzing things.

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03-10-2013, 01:53 AM
  #159
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Looks as if he's lost some the confidence of many key players.

Stamkos in the post game comments seemed dissatisfied that the team doesn't play a more puck possession game in dumping in the puck to nobody.

It may be the case that Boucher's system has run its course in Tampa.

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03-10-2013, 03:34 AM
  #160
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At first it was a problem of the players, but it's Boucher's job to bring them back. Even if the players underperform, because they all are rusty or whatever, it's Bouchers job to bring the most out of them.

A team with less talented players, who are all overperforming is a good team (Montreal) and a team with a lot of skill and great players, who are all underperforming is a bad team (Tampa).
And you can't tell me anymore that it's all the players fault. They have shown brilliance and now they lost it and are unable to play great anymore.

I think this offseason is the time we should stop being patient, we have a great GM, we have a great scouting team, we have a great prospect pool, we have a great minor coach and we have a great NHL coach, who is unable to use his talent to get the most out of his players talents.
I think it's time to change in the offseason.

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03-10-2013, 05:44 AM
  #161
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Alot of people are underestimating the effect of great goaltending also, goaltenders can completely change the momentum of the game with a great save.

Look at what Rask did to us a couple weeks back, he stonewalled our offense and the Bruins can keep flying because of it. Not to mention it takes pressure off the less talented D-man when they know they have a goalie who's reliable.

Both our runs in 2004, and 2011, we didn't have anywhere near the best D in the league, we had solid guys who played a solid game, however our goaltenders and offense were world class both times.

We need a reliable goalie in net, much more than we need a coaching change up, IMO.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:03 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
At first it was a problem of the players, but it's Boucher's job to bring them back. Even if the players underperform, because they all are rusty or whatever, it's Bouchers job to bring the most out of them.

A team with less talented players, who are all overperforming is a good team (Montreal) and a team with a lot of skill and great players, who are all underperforming is a bad team (Tampa).
And you can't tell me anymore that it's all the players fault. They have shown brilliance and now they lost it and are unable to play great anymore.

I think this offseason is the time we should stop being patient, we have a great GM, we have a great scouting team, we have a great prospect pool, we have a great minor coach and we have a great NHL coach, who is unable to use his talent to get the most out of his players talents.
I think it's time to change in the offseason.
Think you are wrong on this one, we (Habs) may not be top heavy like your Bolts with Stamkos or StLouis for example, but we have ton of depth.

From what I saw tonight I think that's what is killing your team, if you play a possession game you'll have problems when your top players will be on the bench (difference in talent from line to line is too big IMO), but a more defensive or dump/chase system wouldnt benefit your best players.

Say what you want about the Habs, but we have on our 3rd line guys who could very well reach 30 pts by season ends, and not players overachieving but young guys developping well (like 23 yo Lars Eller for example).

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03-10-2013, 08:24 AM
  #163
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I can understand the need for good goaltending, I can understand the need for a good defensive system but I cannot understand a coaching staff that cannot shore up either. Either Boucher or SFY has dropped the ball. Boucher is in over his head to rectify a piss poor defensive game plan or SFY cannot be the architect to build a solid team in all avenues of the game. Since the beginning of Feb our record is 5 & 15 with 2 home wins. It doesn't get much worse than that and the experience of attending a game with such consistent losing and putting up with the opposing teams fan base sucks on all fronts. Third and fourth line marginal players are out there looking for cookies instead of responsible two way hockey and the defensive core are all over the ice leaving the net unattended and heaven forbid if they were ever to take out an opponent physically, there must be a team fine associated with such action.
I'm sorry, but a 3-5 game losing streak is one thing but a 5-15 record is way more of something else.

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03-10-2013, 08:30 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Think you are wrong on this one, we (Habs) may not be top heavy like your Bolts with Stamkos or StLouis for example, but we have ton of depth.

From what I saw tonight I think that's what is killing your team, if you play a possession game you'll have problems when your top players will be on the bench (difference in talent from line to line is too big IMO), but a more defensive or dump/chase system wouldnt benefit your best players.

Say what you want about the Habs, but we have on our 3rd line guys who could very well reach 30 pts by season ends, and not players overachieving but young guys developping well (like 23 yo Lars Eller for example).
Oh really?

Top 10 scorers not counting defenseman.

TEAM 1:

21 POINTS
16
15
14
14
14
13
10
9
6
4


TEAM 2:

37
33
21
20
20
14
10
9
8
7

Tampa has plenty of depth. And clearly more than Montreal. The bottom two guys for TB have also only played 15 and 12 games respectively. Montreal obviously has no top end talent at the forward position and score by committee, but even with that TB has by far the better top 10 forward group. Its really not even close. Our 6th best forward has about as many points as your best forward.


So no depth isn't the issue.

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03-10-2013, 08:34 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
I just don't understand Boucher's ice distribution and constant line juggling. I don't know if its panic or over coaching either one is a problem. Two of his better players the last couple of games Palat and Conacher sit on the bench most of the night. Why ??
I don't really know about the line juggling, but the overcoaching is something that's occurred to me. If you look at something like the PP, which is Boucher's thing, they play very structured, and maybe too much as there's adherence to the PP system seemingly to the expense of what it's trying to accomplish. The offense at even strength is much more dynamic and they keep their feet moving compared to the PP. Although I think they have gotten better at not doing this in the past week or so. Maybe we're seeing nails after the DET-CHI game where the Hawks were so good about it, although it was something I was complaining about before then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
I can understand the need for good goaltending, I can understand the need for a good defensive system but I cannot understand a coaching staff that cannot shore up either. Either Boucher or SFY has dropped the ball. Boucher is in over his head to rectify a piss poor defensive game plan or SFY cannot be the architect to build a solid team in all avenues of the game. Since the beginning of Feb our record is 5 & 15 with 2 home wins. It doesn't get much worse than that and the experience of attending a game with such consistent losing and putting up with the opposing teams fan base sucks on all fronts. Third and fourth line marginal players are out there looking for cookies instead of responsible two way hockey and the defensive core are all over the ice leaving the net unattended and heaven forbid if they were ever to take out an opponent physically, there must be a team fine associated with such action.
I'm sorry, but a 3-5 game losing streak is one thing but a 5-15 record is way more of something else.
and there we are. Divided front.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 03-10-2013 at 09:19 AM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 09:18 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Think you are wrong on this one, we (Habs) may not be top heavy like your Bolts with Stamkos or StLouis for example, but we have ton of depth.

From what I saw tonight I think that's what is killing your team, if you play a possession game you'll have problems when your top players will be on the bench (difference in talent from line to line is too big IMO), but a more defensive or dump/chase system wouldnt benefit your best players.

Say what you want about the Habs, but we have on our 3rd line guys who could very well reach 30 pts by season ends, and not players overachieving but young guys developping well (like 23 yo Lars Eller for example).
What's with the ton of outside fans thinking we lack depth? Depth is the last thing I'm worrying about these guys, especially since the bottom-6 forwards are they only thing we praise night in and out.

We have 9 guys above 10 points in only 25 games, we have multiple goals scored from at least 14 different players, and goals scored by 19 different players on the roster, not to mention the bottom 6 guys chip in despite having their ice times repeatedly cut.

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03-10-2013, 09:34 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
What's with the ton of outside fans thinking we lack depth? Depth is the last thing I'm worrying about these guys, especially since the bottom-6 forwards are they only thing we praise night in and out.

We have 9 guys above 10 points in only 25 games, we have multiple goals scored from at least 14 different players, and goals scored by 19 different players on the roster, not to mention the bottom 6 guys chip in despite having their ice times repeatedly cut.
Outside fans think that because we don't have well known names.

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03-10-2013, 09:47 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Think you are wrong on this one, we (Habs) may not be top heavy like your Bolts with Stamkos or StLouis for example, but we have ton of depth.

From what I saw tonight I think that's what is killing your team, if you play a possession game you'll have problems when your top players will be on the bench (difference in talent from line to line is too big IMO), but a more defensive or dump/chase system wouldnt benefit your best players.

Say what you want about the Habs, but we have on our 3rd line guys who could very well reach 30 pts by season ends, and not players overachieving but young guys developping well (like 23 yo Lars Eller for example).
our forward depth is one of the best in the league so no, that's not the problem.
The problem is defense and below average goaltending, and I start to doubt about boucher's system

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03-10-2013, 10:19 AM
  #169
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Lee with a 18-minute TOI. Seriously? Is this a real life?

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03-10-2013, 11:09 AM
  #170
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Lee with a 18-minute TOI. Seriously? Is this a real life?
Look at much of the TOI it just makes no sense !!!

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03-10-2013, 11:13 AM
  #171
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Look at much of the TOI it just makes no sense !!!
The Yzerman told Guy to showcase the products he wants for a trade

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03-10-2013, 11:23 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Outside fans think that because we don't have well known names.
Agreed, reading the main boards when talking about the Lightning depth is just painful.

The amount of people who didn't know Conacher before this season should just sum up how little is known about of lot of Lightning players.

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03-10-2013, 11:57 AM
  #173
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Agreed, reading the main boards when talking about the Lightning depth is just painful.

The amount of people who didn't know Conacher before this season should just sum up how little is known about of lot of Lightning players.
I don't recognize all the names on the cup.

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03-10-2013, 12:13 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Having Lindy Ruff available is a no brainer!!!! He was in Buffalo for 15 years

Hire

Lindy Ruff...Head Coach

Andy Moog...Goalie Coach

Assistants...Anyone...Cooper etc...
Lol lindy ruff.

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03-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #175
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Great goaltending will compensate for defensive lapses, but then again it looks like it is the defensive system in the first place that breaks down and allows for the goaltenders to be exposed.

Same concern with the defensive players (including the defensive responsibilities of the forwards) - is it their personal skills that are an issue or the fact that the system puts them in bad positioning and makes their play look less than stellar. I don't think the coaches use the players they have correctly. These guys didn't forget how to play defensive hockey - it just looks like they struggle within the parameters they are given. It's like they don't play instinctively because they are trying to fit their games into a mold.

And the power play is not functioning how it could - getting a little tired of hearing how it is Boucher's "baby" - it's one thing if the opposing team's goaltender/penalty kill shuts down a PP through terrific play, but that isn't what appears to be happening lately - the Lightning make it look easy for the other team to defend.

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