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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIV

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:24 PM
  #251
Curtinho
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
IMO Kessel isn't the best player in that deal, Seguin is now and will only get better.

Exactly how was it meant to go down??
Toronto didn't intend on being one of the worst teams in the league those two years. They thought they could compete, supposedly. That trade looks a lot different if the picks end up in the middle first round range than the top 10 picks that ended up being had. They gambled that they could compete with Kessel and they lost.

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O'Rielly has had one good year offensively and did play with some pretty good linemates.
'Pretty good' linemates? He was playing mostly with a rookie, and a guy that has never put up more than 59 points in his career (and he only had 37 points playing with O'Reilly). O'Reilly carried his line in a big way (again, look at the link provided before).

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So while it is possible, I doubt Murray would be willing to give up a 19 year old prospect currently playing in the NHL for the opportunity to pay O'Reilly $5M+ for 5 years unless Landeskog comes as part of the deal.
Why is that? Because O'Reilly is a 21 year old 'prospect' who has already flourished at the NHL level? Proven talent > prospect every time especially when upsides are similar.

Quote:
Don't misunderstand, OR had a great season, but IMO the sample size is just too small to be offering a big dollar contract and above average prospects for a center the Sens really don't need.

The Sens needs a proven top six power forward, without giving up Michalek, Silf, or Zib.

Lastly, the Rundblad trade was made to fill a glaring hole in last year's team, not just the flavour of the month trade.
I guess we can agree to disagree.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:34 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post


'Pretty good' linemates? He was playing mostly with a rookie, and a guy that has never put up more than 59 points in his career (and he only had 37 points playing with O'Reilly). O'Reilly carried his line in a big way (again, look at the link provided before).
Has your opinion on Landeskog changed?

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:36 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
Where did I say I thought Michalek was bad? I said that if there was a trade to do I'd rather trade Michalek and keep the prospects... Apprend a lire!
lol I think my reading is fine but yes I was challenging what you said :

"How I'd love to ship Michalek over to Colorado over the kids..."

It meant that you'd prefer to send them Michalek over Zibanejad or Silfverberg, which is very debatable and also why I challenged that opinion.

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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
I think Colorado is going to get desperate with the injuries and while Michalek had a hell of a game last night against Buffalo I'd be looking to ship Michalek and Zibanejad for a big deal.
wow, we're talking about something big here, any ideas?

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Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
It's been pretty much decided in the main board thread a deal would look like:

Zibanejad
Wiercioch

for

O'Reilly
Depth Defensemen

I think i'd pull the trigger on that one.
I wouldn't. Wiercioch isn't a throw in prospect and Zibanejad has huge potential. In fact, we shouldn't trade Zibanejad.

Maximum I'd do for RoR :

Silfverberg + Greening + Benoit

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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Thank you. I thought it was Lando and Winnik- didn't realize Hejduk had so many reps with him.

One could easily argue that they helped ROR's numbers even more than he helped theirs.

We don't need to get every player that is in dispute with their current team. He wants $5M/year and we'll have to give up some good pieces to get a player whose had 1 productive season? Colour me skeptical.
Same.

5.0 is about what Alfredsson has been making with the Sens for a while... AFAIK, RoR is still on his RFA years... 5.0 is a lot of money for RFA years, that's Getzlaf/Perry/Kessel/Spezza/Heatley territory... Is he as good as those guys?

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02-13-2013, 03:39 PM
  #254
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I for one would be willing to trade for O'Reilly if the asking price was fair. He's a proven NHL player with lots of offensive talent and very good defensive skills making him less of a defensive liability than some other players. Is he worth Zibby/Silf, a 2nd prospect and 1st round pick, IMO not a chance. But I think there is a deal that could work for both teams. The Avs are going the 'young' root like the Sens and could use some more young offensive pieces to complement Landeskog and Duchene.

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02-13-2013, 03:44 PM
  #255
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We could just offer him 4.95 million at 4 years etc and if avalanche don't match (they will) then we'd get him for a 1st and a 3rd.

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02-13-2013, 03:45 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
Where did I say I thought Michalek was bad? I said that if there was a trade to do I'd rather trade Michalek and keep the prospects... Apprend a lire!
IMO it makes little sense to make a trade to upgrade a weakness by offering up a part of the group the team would be attempting to strengthen via the trade.

Spezza, Turris, and Michalek should be untouchable at this point, unless the team is in complete tear down mode.

Silf and Zib should also be untouchable unless it is deemed they have reached their max potential.

So the challenge for Murray is add a young talented power forward without giving up one of the five mentioned.

IMO the most valuable asset outside of these players is Anderson. Therefore if Murray is to improve the team by addition and not incrementally through positional upgrades any deal will have to start with Andy.

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02-13-2013, 03:48 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by QuattroFTW View Post
I for one would be willing to trade for O'Reilly if the asking price was fair. He's a proven NHL player with lots of offensive talent and very good defensive skills making him less of a defensive liability than some other players. Is he worth Zibby/Silf, a 2nd prospect and 1st round pick, IMO not a chance. But I think there is a deal that could work for both teams. The Avs are going the 'young' root like the Sens and could use some more young offensive pieces to complement Landeskog and Duchene.
For the reasons you provide, I doubt Colorado trades ROR unless it is for significant overpayment.

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02-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
IMO it makes little sense to make a trade to upgrade a weakness by offering up a part of the group the team would be attempting to strengthen via the trade.

Spezza, Turris, and Michalek should be untouchable at this point.

Silf and Zib should also be untouchable unless it is deemed the are capped at their current level.

So the challenge for Murray is add a young talented power forward without giving up one of the five mentioned.

IMO the most valuable asset outside of these players is Anderson. Therefore if Murray is to improve the team by addition and not incrementally through positional upgrades any deal will have to start with Andy.
Anderson should be considered an untouchable IMO. I understand he's off to a monster start this season but he's been a fantastic goalie and is most definitely a huge factor in our place in the standings. Good goaltenders are so hard to come by these days and there's no way I could imagine Murray giving him up unless we were getting some sort of lop-sided deal in our favor.

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02-13-2013, 03:50 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
For the reasons you provide, I doubt Colorado trades ROR unless it is for significant overpayment.
i think i remember trading one Brian Elliott for one The One with colorado. don't underestimate their underestimations.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:51 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
For the reasons you provide, I doubt Colorado trades ROR unless it is for significant overpayment.
Agreed, they have all the power and can choose to let him sit on the shelf if they like, but I think if this drags on any longer they may loosen their belts on what they're demanding in return. He obviously wants out of Colorado given the fact that he's asking for so much.

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02-13-2013, 04:05 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
i think i remember trading one Brian Elliott for one The One with colorado. don't underestimate their underestimations.
I think you underestimate the reasons behind the trade and it has nothing to do with Colorado attempting to improve.

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02-13-2013, 04:09 PM
  #262
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We should not give away a legit top-10 goaltender for ROR. We have never had a legit top-10 goaltender. Ever. A half season of Hasek (with no playoffs) doesn't count.

I understand the argument that Andy's trade value had never been higher. But there's a reason for that! He's playing tremendous hockey. Is our mentality going to be that we trade away our best players simply because their value is at it's highest? Why doesn't Pittsburgh trade Crosby then? He might get another concussion later this season and be worthless! Is it because his present value to his team is greater than any future value returned in a trade. Ahhhhh, Bach........

We should be more than willing to trade any of these guys for the right deal.....

Bishop, JOB, Condra, Greening, Lats, DaCosta, Benoit, Gonchar, Lundin, Daug, Regin, Petersson, Hoffman, Gryba

We should consider moving these guys if the deal is definitely tilted in our favor now and in the future and (where applicable) the players agree to waive any NTC's.....

Michalek, Phillips, Silfverberg, Zibby, Smith, Wiercioch, Borocop, Stone, Noesen, Puempel, Ceci

We should NOT move any of these guys unless the other GM is on crack and it's a once-in-a-lifetime deal that the NHL would probably nullify anyway because of it's lop-sidedness.....

Spezza, Turris, Neil, Cowen, Methot, Andy

And finally the not-for-all-the-tea-in-China guys.....

Karlsson, Lehner, Alfie

All of this said, I really like ROR. You can always make room for great centers on your hockey club. Strength down the middle is invaluable.

I originally proposed Wiercioch + JOB + 3rd rd pick in 2013 for ROR and I stand by that. People laughed at me and I can understand that but the longer this drags with the Avs the more this type of deal will happen, IMO. It's the GM who picks up the phone at the right time who gets it done. I'd be willing to substitute DaCosta or Puempel for JOB but they don't get our 2013 1st and they don't get Zibby and if they don't like that they can suck it.....


Last edited by delchief: 02-13-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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Old
02-13-2013, 04:19 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
IMO it makes little sense to make a trade to upgrade a weakness by offering up a part of the group the team would be attempting to strengthen via the trade.

Spezza, Turris, and Michalek should be untouchable at this point, unless the team is in complete tear down mode.

Silf and Zib should also be untouchable unless it is deemed they have reached their max potential.

So the challenge for Murray is add a young talented power forward without giving up one of the five mentioned.

IMO the most valuable asset outside of these players is Anderson. Therefore if Murray is to improve the team by addition and not incrementally through positional upgrades any deal will have to start with Andy.
I don't see a player like Michalek being part of this group going forward: he's one dimensional and has horrible playoff numbers; I would not consider him a core player.
I don't think he's bad however, but I think he's the player I'm willing to trade that has the highest value.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:23 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
I don't see a player like Michalek being part of this group going forward: he's one dimensional and has horrible playoff numbers; I would not consider him a core player.
I don't think he's bad however, but I think he's the player I'm willing to trade that has the highest value.
One dimensional?

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02-13-2013, 04:27 PM
  #265
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i think i remember trading one Brian Elliott for one The One with colorado. don't underestimate their underestimations.
Circumstances were different.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:32 PM
  #266
Curtinho
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Has your opinion on Landeskog changed?
Not a little -- I still think that he is the best player out of that draft. That said he was still a rookie and while pretty physically mature not near his peak yet. Colorado was not a good team last year -- ROR was one of the few bright spots on the team along with Lando.

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02-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by QuattroFTW View Post
Anderson should be considered an untouchable IMO. I understand he's off to a monster start this season but he's been a fantastic goalie and is most definitely a huge factor in our place in the standings. Good goaltenders are so hard to come by these days and there's no way I could imagine Murray giving him up unless we were getting some sort of lop-sided deal in our favor.
IMO its about the needs of the team today and in the future that the organization doesn't possess.

The Sens have goaltending depth, lots of 3rd/4th line depth, and better defence depth than many believed.

However they lack skilled top six forwards. IMO trading one of the current top six to obtain a replacement is creeping incrementalism.

IMO the only way for the Sens to build a strong top six is by adding to it, not merely changing names. Murray can do this by drafting, trading or UFA signings.

If it is the trade route, then Murray will have to include his most valuable assets outside of the current top six and the defence (exception Gonchar). This list starts with Anderson.

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02-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #268
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Wait, did someone propose Anderson to Colorado? That bridge has been burned. As likely to happen as Heatley to Ottawa.

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02-13-2013, 04:34 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Laoghaire View Post
One dimensional?
Michalek is about as one dimensional first liner as you can get: he can shoot and that's about it.

He showed some great vision and patience last night so there is hope.

EDIT: I now see why you might have said that. He's great defensively, I can't take that away from him. So he's one dimensional offensively, I think that is a better representation of how I feel about him on the Senators.

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02-13-2013, 04:36 PM
  #270
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I don't see a player like Michalek being part of this group going forward: he's one dimensional and has horrible playoff numbers; I would not consider him a core player.
I don't think he's bad however, but I think he's the player I'm willing to trade that has the highest value.
Michalek is anything but one dimensional.

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02-13-2013, 04:38 PM
  #271
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What? O'Reilly has value but this trade makes no sense for Ottawa. Colorado fans are out to lunch if they think O'Reilly is worth that much
Shhh Don't tell anyone but I agree!

Why does Ott want ROR anyways? I mean, you aren't desperate for a cup this year right? Sit it out and let Mika grow!

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02-13-2013, 04:55 PM
  #272
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We should not give away a legit top-10 goaltender for ROR. We have never had a legit top-10 goaltender. Ever. A half season of Hasek (with no playoffs) doesn't count.

I understand the argument that Andy's trade value had never been higher. But there's a reason for that! He's playing tremendous hockey. Is our mentality going to be that we trade away our best players simply because their value is at it's highest? Why doesn't Pittsburgh trade Crosby then? He might get another concussion later this season and be worthless! Is it because his present value to his team is greater than any future value returned in a trade. Ahhhhh, Bach........

We should be more than willing to trade any of these guys for the right deal.....

Bishop, JOB, Condra, Greening, Lats, DaCosta, Benoit, Gonchar, Lundin, Daug, Regin, Petersson, Hoffman, Gryba

We should consider moving these guys if the deal is definitely tilted in our favor now and in the future and (where applicable) the players agree to waive any NTC's.....

Michalek, Phillips, Silfverberg, Zibby, Smith, Wiercioch, Borocop, Stone, Noesen, Puempel, Ceci

We should NOT move any of these guys unless the other GM is on crack and it's a once-in-a-lifetime deal that the NHL would probably nullify anyway because of it's lop-sidedness.....

Spezza, Turris, Neil, Cowen, Methot, Andy

And finally the not-for-all-the-tea-in-China guys.....

Karlsson, Lehner, Alfie

All of this said, I really like ROR. You can always make room for great centers on your hockey club. Strength down the middle is invaluable.

I originally proposed Wiercioch + JOB + 3rd rd pick in 2013 for ROR and I stand by that. People laughed at me and I can understand that but the longer this drags with the Avs the more this type of deal will happen, IMO. It's the GM who picks up the phone at the right time who gets it done. I'd be willing to substitute DaCosta or Puempel for JOB but they don't get our 2013 1st and they don't get Zibby and if they don't like that they can suck it.....
Hope the bolded wasn't directed at my reference to Anderson, because I am on the page that says the Sens don't need ROR, specially at the cost of what some have tossed out as the return.

There are plenty of teams that need a top six center significantly more than the Sens. So exactly why would Murray be willing to outbid for a player the team doesn't really need?

This isn't suggesting ROR isn't a good player, but to give up Michalek, Zib, or Silf along with Wiercoich plus a draft pick is the kind of deal targetted at a Perry level player, not a 22 year old RFA with one 55 point season IMO.

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02-13-2013, 04:56 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by WornWithPride View Post
Shhh Don't tell anyone but I agree!

Why does Ott want ROR anyways? I mean, you aren't desperate for a cup this year right? Sit it out and let Mika grow!
Well O'reilly isn't 30 years old so he'd still be a part of this team when we'd be ready to make a run at the cup. And there's no guarantee Mika turns out to be as good as O'reilly already is. Anyways, I'm fine with keeping Zibanejad but I wouldn't be mad to see him traded for O'reilly.

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02-13-2013, 05:01 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by WornWithPride View Post
Shhh Don't tell anyone but I agree!

Why does Ott want ROR anyways? I mean, you aren't desperate for a cup this year right? Sit it out and let Mika grow!
A voice of reason.

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02-13-2013, 05:23 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
Last year as a 20-21 year old the dude put up 55 points along with world class defense...

If he was a Sens asset, you better believe this board would be talking about his incredible trade value... I see how people here value guys like Silferberg, Cowen, Lehner, etc

You are being to much of a homer if you can't see the incredible value in O'Reilly
Gotta agree here boys and I am really not liking some of the homerism coming from this fan base. I used to appreciate being a sens fan because I always felt we were just an intelligent fan base which made me appreciate it more. However lately with people crying about how we need to make the playoffs and homer trade proposals we are becoming more and more like Leaf fans and its annoying.

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