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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIV

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:54 AM
  #601
Vaclav Varada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Obviously you haven't been watching, because that is exactly what MacLean is going with both Weircoich (19:38 today) and Gryba (20:11 today). In fact both played more than Methot.

IMO people need to get over this attitude that says the prospects aren't ready until some unidentified thing occurs and turns them into NHLers.

The only way to know is to give them a chance to play, watch their play and learning curve, then make an informed decision. IMO just like what Murray & Co are doing now.

I realize the "grass is greener" and "instant gratification" syndromes are alive and well on these boards, so trades and UFA signings meet the criteria, but it isn't necessarily the best way forward.
Today.

Usually Wier plays sheltered minutes.

In a perfect situation he doesn't play as much as he does today, but right now we don't have much of a choice.

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02-19-2013, 01:03 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
Today.

Usually Wier plays sheltered minutes.

In a perfect situation he doesn't play as much as he does today, but right now we don't have much of a choice.
With the exception of the Pens game he has average 18 minutes, sheltered minutes is what Carkner played.

In a perfect situation he does play the minutes he is getting because he is playing well and earning those minutes, as is Gryba.

Would he have gotten the opportunity to show his stuff if Cowen and Karlsson weren't injured, probably not, but that doesn't mean he isn't ready, that's just opportunity or lack of.

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02-19-2013, 01:05 AM
  #603
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Just talking personally I guess I'd just rather he play around 14-16 mins. 16, 18, pretty close i guess I'm just splitting hairs and arguing because I'm bored i guess lol

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02-19-2013, 01:08 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
In terms of deadline deals, Anaheim is the team I'd like to deal with. Plenty of good talent ready to step into the bigs in that system.

Not that it's what they'd be looking for but how about Smith-Pelley for Gonchar? No? William Karlsson, Rackell, Etem, Friberg? I dunno, I just love their prospect pool.
I'm all for that, Smith-Pelly would be a very solid pick up. He has similar physicality to Neil and could possibly become a 2nd liner down the line.

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02-19-2013, 01:30 AM
  #605
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I know the injuries have been horrible guys, but there is a silver lining in that we do have a lot of older prospects that need ice time in the NHL that might not have gotten the time otherwise.

For every top-tier prospect like Karlsson, Cowen, Silfverberg, or Z that a coach makes room for, there is a Wiercioch, Gryba, Boro, Da Costa, etc.. that would be stagnating in the AHL unless injuries happened. Every so often, one of those secondary guys really turns it on when they get a chance and ends up with an NHL career.

Next season we were probably going to lose Gonchar and Alfredsson regardless. Now we'll be getting a good long look at 5-6 more players to see if they pan out. Without injuries, those guys would have been eventually surpassed by bigger names like Ceci, Noesen, Puempel, etc.. before getting a nice long look. The coach has no choice but to work with them.

I'm not saying Da Costa is going to replace Spezza, but if he does well enough...maybe the Coach tries to play Turris at winger next season...or maybe when Cowen comes back, he's partnered with Wiercioch. You never know, stranger things have happened.

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02-19-2013, 01:36 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
Avs.

And they aren't signing him because Lacroix and Giguere have a club rule about contract length for young guys. Look at Duchene. He wanted long term but they didn't want too. They want guys to prove themselves for a couple seasons. ROR wants years. Avs wont give it to him.
Duchene wasn't exactly stellar last season and wasn't in the best bargaining position.

While I'm sure Colorado, like most NHL teams, wish to curb the dollars in second contracts, for a top player the rules will be bent.

So if the Avalanche believed he was as good as some on this board suggest, there would be movement by the club.

It is more likely they aren't convinced his past season is an indication of future performance.

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02-19-2013, 01:44 AM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Duchene wasn't exactly stellar last season and wasn't in the best bargaining position.

While I'm sure Colorado, like most NHL teams, wish to curb the dollars in second contracts, for a top player the rules will be bent.

So if the Avalanche believed he was as good as some on this board suggest, there would be movement by the club.

It is more likely they aren't convinced his past season is an indication of future performance.
This is a pretty good article from the Denver Post:

http://www.denverpost.com/frei/ci_22...look-from-ryan

Quote:
I'll keep typing and saying this until my fingers hurt and my voice gets hoarse: Pox on both houses for not negotiating professionally and reaching a compromise. Those who want to reduce this to "the Avs and/or the Kroenke ownership are cheap" are missing the bigger issue: This is about a wait-your-turn and slotting protocol. Get paid fairly, even lucratively, through the process ... and then the cash register rings even louder when you're about to reach, or reach, unrestricted free agency.

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02-19-2013, 03:12 AM
  #608
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Anyone else thinking if around the trade deadline, (When the hell is it anyway?).

Do you think we should tender trades for Alfy, if we are on the outside looking in so he can get one last chance in the playoffs? And if so, what do you think he would be worth?

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02-19-2013, 03:50 AM
  #609
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Go to the trade board and read the thread on Alfie. I think a quick summary is that if Gaustad could get a 1st at the deadline, Alfie could as well. The main consensus though is that if Alfie lists only 1-3 teams he would like to play for, and they don't want to give up something like a 1st, we would trade him for less anyway just to make him happy and try and win a cup.

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02-19-2013, 06:59 AM
  #610
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Murray and MacLean need to know what they have and playing these guys is important given the season the team is having.

If indeed Gonchar is getting a trade before the deadline, then Murray needs to know what his options are to fill in for him.

If indeed O'Reilley is on Murray's radar (Garrioch) then one of the four development D (Benoit, Wiercioch, Gryba, Borowieki) could be in the package. Would take Michalek level of player to be the prime piece, but other pieces need to be on the table and Murray has indicated he does not want to part with guys like Silverberg, Zibanejad, Stone, etc.

I'd also hate to part with our 1st as it will be a good dafted player, even if O'Reilley was the return.

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02-19-2013, 07:57 AM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Murray and MacLean need to know what they have and playing these guys is important given the season the team is having.

If indeed Gonchar is getting a trade before the deadline, then Murray needs to know what his options are to fill in for him.

If indeed O'Reilley is on Murray's radar (Garrioch) then one of the four development D (Benoit, Wiercioch, Gryba, Borowieki) could be in the package. Would take Michalek level of player to be the prime piece, but other pieces need to be on the table and Murray has indicated he does not want to part with guys like Silverberg, Zibanejad, Stone, etc.

I'd also hate to part with our 1st as it will be a good dafted player, even if O'Reilley was the return.
Assuming that we make the playoffs with O'Reilly in the line-up...there's very little chance that we draft someone as good as O'Reilly with that pick. I don't think that Colorado is looking for picks though. If they were however our 1st, our 3rd and Wierchioch should get the deal done. It gives them what an offersheet compensation would be for the pay scale he wants and a blue-chip prospect.

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02-19-2013, 08:24 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Emerica View Post
How the hell are those guys true first line wingers?

None of the guys you mentioned are first line talent. They may play on the first line of their team, but that's just a testament to how bad their top 6 is. I wouldn't trade Zibby, Wiercioch and a 3rd for any of the guys you mentioned either.
lol, ok then. i guess you don't want any 50 - 60+ point wingers. and i agree, i wouldn't make that exact deal for most of the guys i mentioned. but that wasn't the question. the question what guys could we potentially get for the package.

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02-19-2013, 08:31 AM
  #613
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Time to overpay for Sam Gagner?

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02-19-2013, 08:59 AM
  #614
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Will ROR bring more offensive ability than DaCosta?
also,
IMO if we are looking at sending a package of Zibinejad, Weircoch and a 3rd, id be calling anaheim and finding out how much more it would cost for Perry.
(assuming we could resign him)
if we're going to go big then go big.


Last edited by Wondercarrot: 02-19-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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02-19-2013, 09:01 AM
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
Will ROR bring more offensive ability than DaCosta?
Yes, and a more physical presence on the ice as well.

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02-19-2013, 09:05 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Assuming that we make the playoffs with O'Reilly in the line-up...there's very little chance that we draft someone as good as O'Reilly with that pick. I don't think that Colorado is looking for picks though. If they were however our 1st, our 3rd and Wierchioch should get the deal done. It gives them what an offersheet compensation would be for the pay scale he wants and a blue-chip prospect.
I wouldn't assume ROR would be the difference between playoffs or not. Remember he hasn't played this season and by the end of the week the Sens will have 29 games left, and no indication a trade is close.

It is more likely should ROR come to Ottawa he would have at most a minor impact on the year end results.

IMO if Murray was to make a trade for ROR, it is focused more on the future than an immediate solution to the current situation.

If Murray was willing to give up a first, third and Wiercoich, he would be better off tendering an offer sheet for whatever he feels is fair value. Why throw in a very young puck moving D that is showing he has a bright future in the league?

Personally I don't like giving any young player excessive dollars after one good season, unless they have shown extraordinary skill and production, like Karlsson.

The contract he is demanding is my biggest concern about acquiring ROR., it sets a benchmark for negotiating all future second contracts for the Sens, a presidence that may turn out to be problematic.

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02-19-2013, 09:10 AM
  #617
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Originally Posted by QuattroFTW View Post
Yes, and a more physical presence on the ice as well.
Not sure he will bring more offense than DaCosta, but he definitely is better defensively and bigger.

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02-19-2013, 09:11 AM
  #618
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Apparently, the Avs asking price for ROR from the Rangers was Del Zotto AND Chris Kreider or JT Taylor.

Sherman is out to lunch. I swear they are only next to Edmonton in terms of how poorly run they are.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...-to-him/12593/

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02-19-2013, 09:20 AM
  #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
Apparently, the Avs asking price for ROR from the Rangers was Del Zotto AND Chris Kreider or JT Taylor.

Sherman is out to lunch. I swear they are only next to Edmonton in terms of how poorly run they are.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...-to-him/12593/

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02-19-2013, 09:32 AM
  #620
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I'd be weary trading for O'Reilly. Whose to say he doesn't become a Brandon Sutter type. Both have had a good season at age 20 playing the defensive matchups. IMO Sutter had his season in 09/10 with worse line-mates.

He looks promising, but I'd rather buy low sell high, and Colorado is looking to get a return based on his promising future.

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02-19-2013, 09:37 AM
  #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
Will ROR bring more offensive ability than DaCosta?
also,
IMO if we are looking at sending a package of Zibinejad, Weircoch and a 3rd, id be calling anaheim and finding out how much more it would cost for Perry.
(assuming we could resign him)
if we're going to go big then go big.
That's the thing...you will never get a guy like Perry for a package like that. ROR is in a rare circumstance where he's a budding young player who is already a top 6 performer, but also still has a lot of room to grow, and he's at odds with his team. Look at what happened with Anderson and Turris. These guys have a ton of talent and sometimes management just misses the boat or doesn't treat them the way they feel they deserve to be or should be. We can come out smelling like roses here if we snatch him up because he has the talent, drive and ability to be a top tier 2nd line center if not a 1st line center down the road with the way he's developed and his head for the game.

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02-19-2013, 09:38 AM
  #622
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
I'd be weary trading for O'Reilly. Whose to say he doesn't become a Brandon Sutter type. Both have had a good season at age 20 playing the defensive matchups. IMO Sutter had his season in 09/10 with worse line-mates.

He looks promising, but I'd rather buy low sell high, and Colorado is looking to get a return based on his promising future.
I doubt people will offer much. As for value lets look at the Nash deal. No way Avs get what they are asking. I mean MDZ was a good offer tbh especially look at thier D.

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02-19-2013, 09:56 AM
  #623
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That's the thing...you will never get a guy like Perry for a package like that. ROR is in a rare circumstance where he's a budding young player who is already a top 6 performer, but also still has a lot of room to grow, and he's at odds with his team. Look at what happened with Anderson and Turris. These guys have a ton of talent and sometimes management just misses the boat or doesn't treat them the way they feel they deserve to be or should be. We can come out smelling like roses here if we snatch him up because he has the talent, drive and ability to be a top tier 2nd line center if not a 1st line center down the road with the way he's developed and his head for the game.
I cant even remember watching O'Reilly play so i guess i really cant fairly comment, but i guess if its true top line talent potential then im good with that.
Would you say overall he is better, similar, or worse than Turris now and do you see his top end being better, similar or worse than Turris?

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02-19-2013, 09:57 AM
  #624
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
Apparently, the Avs asking price for ROR from the Rangers was Del Zotto AND Chris Kreider or JT Taylor.

Sherman is out to lunch. I swear they are only next to Edmonton in terms of how poorly run they are.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...-to-him/12593/
Top 3 worst run teams in the NHL

Washington
New York Islanders
Avalanche
Honourable mention: Edmonton

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02-19-2013, 10:01 AM
  #625
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I doubt people will offer much. As for value lets look at the Nash deal. No way Avs get what they are asking. I mean MDZ was a good offer tbh especially look at thier D.
I agree, too many risks involved in this trade.

This situation is all about money, there are no extraneous circumstances.

While it is always possible a desperate GM will take the leap, it wouldn't surprise me if ROR is available for quite some time unless Sherman lowers his demands.

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