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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIV

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:02 AM
  #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Throw me in the Turris would be wasted on the wing crowd. You'd pretty much be forced to play a big body like Greening on the other flank.
Why not throw in Michalek?

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02-20-2013, 09:56 AM
  #827
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The Senators can't afford to be wasting prime assets on a guy like O'Reilly when they have current and future holes to plug at wing and defense.

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02-20-2013, 10:01 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
The Senators can't afford to be wasting prime assets on a guy like O'Reilly when they have current and future holes to plug at wing and defense.
That's true.

But if you played enough NHL13 you'd know that it's as simple as just moving a natural C over to the wing, and then *poof* Problem solved.

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02-20-2013, 10:06 AM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
This I agree with. As for Turris on the wing, I don't know. He makes strong defensive plays, but at the same time, I'm sure he can adjust. To what extent is the question...
I think he's a smart enough player and if you watch him play he has a great skillset for a scoring winger. He'd be similar to Semin IMO. He's not physical but he's smart, backchecks hard but uses his stick more than his body to play positionally. He's not the grinder type but he has a wicked shot, a good pass and great hockey sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
That's true.

But if you played enough NHL13 you'd know that it's as simple as just moving a natural C over to the wing, and then *poof* Problem solved.
A natural C that can play the wing and has played the wing effectively in the past. But it's probably easier to potshot than watch the game or know the player.

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02-20-2013, 10:17 AM
  #830
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
The Senators can't afford to be wasting prime assets on a guy like O'Reilly when they have current and future holes to plug at wing and defense.
If its true that they are looking for zibby, I'd hardly consider him a prime asset

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02-20-2013, 10:20 AM
  #831
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Lebrun mentioned last night that Dan Boyle may become availalbe, while he's getting pretty old if the price is right I think he'd make a good Gonchar replacement next year, plays the right side too and you know Murray likes his local guys.

No idea what his worth might be though?

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02-20-2013, 10:26 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Lebrun mentioned last night that Dan Boyle may become availalbe, while he's getting pretty old if the price is right I think he'd make a good Gonchar replacement next year, plays the right side too and you know Murray likes his local guys.

No idea what his worth might be though?
If I had to guess I would think that he still commands quite a few assets...probably too much for us to give up.

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02-20-2013, 10:29 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Johnny Hanson View Post
If its true that they are looking for zibby, I'd hardly consider him a prime asset
are you kidding?
i guess if you are comparing him to an established top 6 player then OK, but as far as prospects go - there is no question he is a prime asset.

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02-20-2013, 10:30 AM
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Lebrun mentioned last night that Dan Boyle may become availalbe, while he's getting pretty old if the price is right I think he'd make a good Gonchar replacement next year, plays the right side too and you know Murray likes his local guys.

No idea what his worth might be though?
I've wanted him here for awhile.

My understanding is that there's a reason he played in Tampa Bay and in San Jose.

Not really interested in Canadian winters.

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02-20-2013, 10:35 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I've wanted him here for awhile.

My understanding is that there's a reason he played in Tampa Bay and in San Jose.

Not really interested in Canadian winters.
I'm not sure if that is true, I remember when we were looking to trade Mezaros, before we got the Kuba/Picard package I heard Boyle was offered, but Murray didn't like the long term contract so he got traded to SanJose cause they just lost Campbell. I remember reading Boyle wanted to come here too I think?

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02-20-2013, 10:36 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
are you kidding?
i guess if you are comparing him to an established top 6 player then OK, but as far as prospects go - there is no question he is a prime asset.
22 year old player that already has 100+ points in the NHL, plays selke caliber defence and is coming off his most productive season yet at 55 points.

19 year old who has had injury issues, bounced around between leagues, but shows a lot of promise to one day be a 50 - 60 point player with good defence.

Do you really think that Zibanejad will be better than O'Reilly already is?

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02-20-2013, 10:40 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Do you really think that Zibanejad will be better than O'Reilly already is?
In 3 years? Yes.

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02-20-2013, 10:49 AM
  #838
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do. not. want.

ill stick with spezza and turris as 1/2 thank you.


whats wrong with having the number 2 and the number 3 overall picks of the 2001 and 2007 drafts as your 1/2 punch? if were trading zibby, why not for a top notch scoring winger?

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02-20-2013, 10:49 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by H2O View Post
In 3 years? Yes.

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02-20-2013, 10:50 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
A natural C that can play the wing and has played the wing effectively in the past. But it's probably easier to potshot than watch the game or know the player.
lol I was all for getting Turris from Phoenix long before it happened because I do watch hockey. And because he was perfectly suited to address our need at 2C.

"Hey, he scored his 1st career goal while being improperly used on the wing by the team that was ruining his development!-------> EFFECTIVE WINGER!"

You're like a used car salesman. Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it true. It's just you trying to flesh out your agenda. Trading away prime assets for a player who's ******** over someone else getting the "C" on his team, and having to pay him 2aC money is stupid.

Tiresome.

Is ROR a good player? You're damn right he is. If he was our RFA would you give him that money? Probably. But he's not.

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02-20-2013, 10:57 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
22 year old player that already has 100+ points in the NHL, plays selke caliber defence and is coming off his most productive season yet at 55 points.

19 year old who has had injury issues, bounced around between leagues, but shows a lot of promise to one day be a 50 - 60 point player with good defence.

Do you really think that Zibanejad will be better than O'Reilly already is?
he could certainly be as good as O'Reilly maybe better maybe not. but that's not really the point.
the question was is he a prime asset. he is.

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02-20-2013, 11:02 AM
  #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
22 year old player that already has 100+ points in the NHL, plays selke caliber defence and is coming off his most productive season yet at 55 points.

19 year old who has had injury issues, bounced around between leagues, but shows a lot of promise to one day be a 50 - 60 point player with good defence.

Do you really think that Zibanejad will be better than O'Reilly already is?
I think Zibanejad has a better chance at being better than O'Reilly already is than O'Reilly does at being better than he "already is"

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02-20-2013, 11:02 AM
  #843
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Lebrun mentioned last night that Dan Boyle may become availalbe, while he's getting pretty old if the price is right I think he'd make a good Gonchar replacement next year, plays the right side too and you know Murray likes his local guys.

No idea what his worth might be though?
Pass thanks, the Sens don't need to add older veterans to plug any perceived holes the fans may believe the team has.

IMO the Sens don't have a problem with their D going forward, with Karlsson, Wiercoich, Methot, Cowen, Gryba, Phillips and Benoit/Boro.

A young defense group that is only going to get better.

The Sens most pressing need is in the top six, an upgrade for Latendresse and a replacement for Alfie in the near future.

Considering Silf is still on the learning curve, that leaves Michalek as the only proven top six winger, yet some people are suggesting trading him for something not needed.

IMO the Sens are in reasonable shape in the bottom six with players like Smith, Neil, Greening, Grant, JOB, Dziurzynski, and Condra.

There are also potentials, players on the cusp, like DaCosta and Zibanejad that could fit into the bottom six and progress up the line up.

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02-20-2013, 11:03 AM
  #844
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
I think Zibanejad has a better chance at being better than O'Reilly already is than O'Reilly does at being better than he "already is"
Cujomi has a man crush on ROR, nothing you can say is going to convince him otherwise.

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02-20-2013, 11:05 AM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
he could certainly be as good as O'Reilly maybe better maybe not. but that's not really the point.
the question was is he a prime asset. he is.
He might be a prime asset right now but I have my doubts he will be long term. Ill take the established 22 year old rather than waiting a couple years to see if zibby can become as good as ror already is

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02-20-2013, 11:13 AM
  #846
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
I'm not sure if that is true, I remember when we were looking to trade Mezaros, before we got the Kuba/Picard package I heard Boyle was offered, but Murray didn't like the long term contract so he got traded to SanJose cause they just lost Campbell. I remember reading Boyle wanted to come here too I think?
I know his wife is from Florida.

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02-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #847
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
lol I was all for getting Turris from Phoenix long before it happened because I do watch hockey. And because he was perfectly suited to address our need at 2C.

"Hey, he scored his 1st career goal while being improperly used on the wing by the team that was ruining his development!-------> EFFECTIVE WINGER!"

You're like a used car salesman. Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it true. It's just you trying to flesh out your agenda. Trading away prime assets for a player who's ******** over someone else getting the "C" on his team, and having to pay him 2aC money is stupid.

Tiresome.

Is ROR a good player? You're damn right he is. If he was our RFA would you give him that money? Probably. But he's not.
Nice to read someone understands Turris isn't a winger in the making!!

Careful, some people on this board were willing to significantly overpay Foligno for his 15 goals and 47 points.

IMO the answer to your question is NO. There are few 22 year olds that deserve that level of compensation, Karlsson is one of them, ROR is not.

ROR has shown he is an excellent defensive center that had the opportunity due to injuries to get lots of ice time, including PP minutes.

Is he a number 1 center? Not on any contending team. Is he a number 2 center, potentially, but he has to prove it by producing points with less talented wingers and less ice time and PP opportunity.

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02-20-2013, 11:19 AM
  #848
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
lol I was all for getting Turris from Phoenix long before it happened because I do watch hockey. And because he was perfectly suited to address our need at 2C.

"Hey, he scored his 1st career goal while being improperly used on the wing by the team that was ruining his development!-------> EFFECTIVE WINGER!"

You're like a used car salesman. Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it true. It's just you trying to flesh out your agenda. Trading away prime assets for a player who's ******** over someone else getting the "C" on his team, and having to pay him 2aC money is stupid.

Tiresome.

Is ROR a good player? You're damn right he is. If he was our RFA would you give him that money? Probably. But he's not.
What am I saying that isn't true by the way? Your entire post is a strawman that isn't relevant to anything that I've posted. I was also for acquiring Turris before we did because he has a lot of untapped potential. I also see him as a very valuable 2nd line centre and that's exactly what he was brought in for.

However, this is true because why? We didn't have a 2nd line centre and needed one. If we acquired O'Reilly we would have two players suitable to being a 2nd line centre. Obviously it's possible that we could run 3 centres with great ability, or we could move the one over that has played wing in the past and has looked good doing it as well as having the attributes to be a good winger.

You slinging out personal insults to attempt to avoid actually having to debate a situation doesn't really swing it in your favour. Though again, the internet, maturity, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Cujomi has a man crush on ROR, nothing you can say is going to convince him otherwise.
Apparently any time I think a player is better than one of ours, or good, I have a man crush and nothing anyone can say or do will change my mind. At least I provide reasoning behind my arguments. I also don't make excuses when I am wrong, nor do I shove it in peoples' faces over and over when I am right (like my wrongs are).

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Originally Posted by Johnny Hanson View Post
He might be a prime asset right now but I have my doubts he will be long term. Ill take the established 22 year old rather than waiting a couple years to see if zibby can become as good as ror already is
This is how I feel about it. Zibanejad still has a lot of red flags. I understand he was a 6th overall (I feel he was reached for and wasn't the BPA at the time) but he has never dominated any level of play or put up a significant point total at any level of play. He has no consistency (I know he's young) but some nights he just seems completely lost. I just don't think that he's got the intelligence to put all his tools together. He has upside, but I don't think that he will reach his max end potential that a lot of people see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Nice to read someone understands Turris isn't a winger in the making!!

Careful, some people on this board were willing to significantly overpay Foligno for his 15 goals and 47 points.

IMO the answer to your question is NO. There are few 22 year olds that deserve that level of compensation, Karlsson is one of them, ROR is not.

ROR has shown he is an excellent defensive center that had the opportunity due to injuries to get lots of ice time, including PP minutes.

Is he a number 1 center? Not on any contending team. Is he a number 2 center, potentially, but he has to prove it by producing points with less talented wingers and less ice time and PP opportunity.
It's not like ROR is supposedly asking for Karlsson money anyway. He's supposedly just looking for a long term deal around 4 - 5 mil. That's not like you're breaking the bank to do it. Also...you're acting like ROR was playing on some super talented team with the best wingers in the league. Landeskog is great, but he was still a rookie that was able to step in and produce largely because of ROR. ROR playing with some combination of Silfverberg/Alfredsson/Michalek/Latendresse/Greening/etc. would not be getting worse line-mates than what he had in Colorado...but he would also be getting a lot more help from the blueline and a better system.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:26 AM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Johnny Hanson View Post
He might be a prime asset right now but I have my doubts he will be long term. Ill take the established 22 year old rather than waiting a couple years to see if zibby can become as good as ror already is
ok that's fine i get that, and if the question is would i trade Zibinejad for O'Reilly - i probably would do that. i wouldnt add any other core prospect though - certainly not silf, weircoch, stone etc. maybe a mid late pick.

my real problem though is that id rather spend that asset (and more) on something we need - an elite level winger.

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02-20-2013, 11:30 AM
  #850
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
ok that's fine i get that, and if the question is would i trade Zibinejad for O'Reilly - i probably would do that. i wouldnt add any other core prospect though - certainly not silf, weircoch, stone etc. maybe a mid late pick.

my real problem though is that id rather spend that asset (and more) on something we need - an elite level winger.
I think the biggest issue with this is that you are highly unlikely to find an established winger with elite upside for the kind of price that we are willing to pay. Ultimately ROR is in a unique situation in that he has top end ability but is in a dispute with his team. If Eberle, Neal, Eriksson, Kane, Skinner, etc. etc. were in the same situation you'd see talk about them. Unfortunately most teams aren't willing to move their young top 6 players unless they are in a situation like what ROR is currently in.

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