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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIV

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:14 AM
  #201
Curtinho
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I would move Zibanejad + for O'Reilly. Depends on what the + is though. Wierchioch would make it a very tough deal...but we'll see.

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02-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
Last year as a 20-21 year old the dude put up 55 points along with world class defense...

If he was a Sens asset, you better believe this board would be talking about his incredible trade value... I see how people here value guys like Silferberg, Cowen, Lehner, etc

You are being to much of a homer if you can't see the incredible value in O'Reilly
Not the point - O'Reilly is a good player but I wouldn't do Zibby for him straight up let alone throw in Weircohe who looks like a solid PMD down the road.

For this move to make sense for Ottawa it has to be a depth player + a prospect and not take away from Zibby who is a core player and a center piece of building a fast and intelligent top 6 - let along throw in Weircoche who we have groomed since drafting and gets better shift to shift.

It has to be a roster player we can live without (Greening) and a prospect or pick with value.

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02-13-2013, 10:36 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
Not the point - O'Reilly is a good player but I wouldn't do Zibby for him straight up let alone throw in Weircohe who looks like a solid PMD down the road.

For this move to make sense for Ottawa it has to be a depth player + a prospect and not take away from Zibby who is a core player and a center piece of building a fast and intelligent top 6 - let along throw in Weircoche who we have groomed since drafting and gets better shift to shift.

It has to be a roster player we can live without (Greening) and a prospect or pick with value.
I think you are undervaluing O'Reilly and overvaluing Zibanejad. Right now it's looking like Zibanejad is going to be a winger, and we're hoping he might one day be as good as O'Reilly already is. He has a bit more jam and is more physical, but O'Reilly is definitely the smarter player. On top of this ROR is still only 21 years old.

If they call Ottawa and say 'Zibanejad for ROR?' the deal would be done and signed before they hung up the phone.

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02-13-2013, 10:41 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I think you are undervaluing O'Reilly and overvaluing Zibanejad. Right now it's looking like Zibanejad is going to be a winger, and we're hoping he might one day be as good as O'Reilly already is. He has a bit more jam and is more physical, but O'Reilly is definitely the smarter player. On top of this ROR is still only 21 years old.

If they call Ottawa and say 'Zibanejad for ROR?' the deal would be done and signed before they hung up the phone.
coach likes zibanejad as a center and uses him there.

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02-13-2013, 10:41 AM
  #205
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Who were ROR's linemates last year?

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02-13-2013, 10:50 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I think you are undervaluing O'Reilly and overvaluing Zibanejad. Right now it's looking like Zibanejad is going to be a winger, and we're hoping he might one day be as good as O'Reilly already is. He has a bit more jam and is more physical, but O'Reilly is definitely the smarter player. On top of this ROR is still only 21 years old.

If they call Ottawa and say 'Zibanejad for ROR?' the deal would be done and signed before they hung up the phone.
I doubt Ottawa wants to trade Zibby, the coach loves him and he has shown at age 19 he is an NHL player. This is a complete lateral move, why do this for a player you are going to pay more money to and who doesn't skate as well as Zibby and pay him more money?

O'Reilly has value, but trading him for a package that includes Zibby or Silf makes absolutely no sense at all.

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02-13-2013, 10:55 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
I doubt Ottawa wants to trade Zibby, the coach loves him and he has shown at age 19 he is an NHL player. This is a complete lateral move, why do this for a player you are going to pay more money to and who doesn't skate as well as Zibby and pay him more money?

O'Reilly has value, but trading him for a package that includes Zibby or Silf makes absolutely no sense at all.
If you don't see the value in it I can't really help you there. It's not a lateral move at all considering he's a better player than either, and still has room to grow. Only on HFBoards though are prospects who may one day be as good as a 21 year old Selke calibre centre worth more than, or as much as, him.

Whether or not we like a player is irrelevant. We liked Rundblad too, but Turris fit our needs more. O'Reilly offers more to this team than Zibanejad or Silfverberg right now, and very well could offer even more than he already does in the future. We can't be certain that Zibanejad or Silfverberg will ever be as good as O'Reilly (I think Silfverberg will be...I have my doubts about Zibanejad).

Also money is a non-issue for us right now. We are doing a lot with very little in terms of money. Eventually we are going to have to start paying players if we want to have a good team with good players on it.

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02-13-2013, 11:01 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
I doubt Ottawa wants to trade Zibby, the coach loves him and he has shown at age 19 he is an NHL player. This is a complete lateral move, why do this for a player you are going to pay more money to and who doesn't skate as well as Zibby and pay him more money?

O'Reilly has value, but trading him for a package that includes Zibby or Silf makes absolutely no sense at all.
imagine zibby scores 50 points next year. would you trade him for a player that has good potential but hasn't proven much besides not looking out of place in the nhl and has a chance at scoring 50 points in the future and a potential second pairing defenseman?

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02-13-2013, 11:01 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
coach likes zibanejad as a center and uses him there.
Because Spezza is out of the lineup...

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02-13-2013, 11:04 AM
  #210
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I don't think that Ottawa needs another centre, especially when Spezza gets back. I would much rather have a top 6 scoring winger. I would also like to see Maclean keep Zibanejad at centre, he has the speed & good two way defensive game to play the position & would help to create a third scoring line. Who is to say that Zibane doesn't become every bit as good as ROR at some point in the future, he has all the tools & was a high draft pick, I think they keep him.

Spezza, Turris & Zibanejad down the middle creates a third scoring line & brings some size & tenacity to the centre position. Zack has been great at centre but doesn't have Zibane's offensive skills & speed but would be great on the wing as a compliment forward to dig pucks out. A third line of Smith-Zibane-Stone would be interesting, three big guys, one with a great shot, one who can pass & one who can dig the pucks out. All three have good size, some toughness & are good defensively.

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02-13-2013, 11:12 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Who were ROR's linemates last year?
According to Behind the Net, Landeskog - ROR - Hejduk

(Forwards in bold)

Landeskog 83.3%
Hejda 34.5%
Hejduk 33.6%
O'Brien 32.1%
E.Johnson 31.6%
Winnik 28.6%
O'Byrne 27.8%
Quincey 26.0%
Wilson 23.9%
Downie 18.9%

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02-13-2013, 11:12 AM
  #212
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Zibanejad's tools are better suited for the wing. They just are. Smith can still be a great 3rd or 4th line centre, and if we had O'Reilly we would just have so many more options. Look at how strong offensively Pittsburgh was with Crosby - Malkin - Staal. Imagine Spezza - Turris - O'Reilly or even Spezza - O'Reilly with Turris on the wing.

Getting O'Reilly would make this team very, very strong and hard to play against. When you have guys playing down the middle that make everyone around them better it just makes your team so tough to play against. I don't see Zibanejad as that kind of player while O'Reilly definitely is.

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02-13-2013, 11:14 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
According to Behind the Net, Landeskog - ROR - Hejduk

(Forwards in bold)

Landeskog 83.3%
Hejda 34.5%
Hejduk 33.6%
O'Brien 32.1%
E.Johnson 31.6%
Winnik 28.6%
O'Byrne 27.8%
Quincey 26.0%
Wilson 23.9%
Downie 18.9%
ROR was a huge reason for Landeskog's offensive season last year, too. If you watched him at all this year you could see he wasn't nearly as effective without ROR (before he went down with injury).

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02-13-2013, 11:15 AM
  #214
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O'Reilly would be an amazing player to trade for. Either one of Zibby or Silf alone for O'Reilly would be a steal. Zibby and Wiercoch would still be good deal. Would make that in a heartbeat.

I posted this before and I'll post it again so everyone can get an idea of the value that O'Reilly can bring to this team:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1423

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02-13-2013, 11:16 AM
  #215
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Give Zib 74 games this year and I bet he could score 26 points and play great D, just like O'Reilly did at the same age. I really like O'Reilly but that trade is far from a slam dunk. Its very debatable whether we'd be getting the better player long term in that deal.

Still, its probably a fair trade value wise given O'Reilly has produced at a high level and Zibby just looks like he might be able to.

O'Reilly would be the 3rd C on this team for a few years and not see a heck of a lot of PP time. Is giving up 2 good assets like Zib and PW really worth it to get someone who fills that role for us. Could he really produce 50+ points in that role? I think I'd rather look at a different player if we're moving Zib and PW but he is VERY tempting to think about.

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02-13-2013, 11:21 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OgieO View Post
Give Zib 74 games this year and I bet he could score 26 points and play great D, just like O'Reilly did at the same age. I really like O'Reilly but that trade is far from a slam dunk. Its very debatable whether we'd be getting the better player long term in that deal.

Still, its probably a fair trade value wise given O'Reilly has produced at a high level and Zibby just looks like he might be able to.

O'Reilly would be the 3rd C on this team for a few years and not see a heck of a lot of PP time. Is giving up 2 good assets like Zib and PW really worth it to get someone who fills that role for us. Could he really produce 50+ points in that role? I think I'd rather look at a different player if we're moving Zib and PW but he is VERY tempting to think about.
Sure, again, Zibanejad may produce what O'Reilly did at the same age...but Reilly exploded last year and really upped his game. There's no guarantee that Zibanejad will ever do that, and O'Reilly just is one of the most impactful players on the ice when he's out there. Zibanejad's upside isn't really much more than what O'Reilly already is...and that's if he absolutely reaches his top end (IMO).

Turris can, and has, played the wing in the NHL and has good chemistry with Spezza.

If we acquired O'Reilly I would imagine him and Turris would share C duties until Spezza was healthy, and then Turris would be moved to Spezza's wing.

Michalek - Spezza - Turris
Silfverberg/Zibanejad - O'Reilly - Alfredsson

Sick lines.

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02-13-2013, 11:22 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
If you don't see the value in it I can't really help you there. It's not a lateral move at all considering he's a better player than either, and still has room to grow. Only on HFBoards though are prospects who may one day be as good as a 21 year old Selke calibre centre worth more than, or as much as, him.

Whether or not we like a player is irrelevant. We liked Rundblad too, but Turris fit our needs more. O'Reilly offers more to this team than Zibanejad or Silfverberg right now, and very well could offer even more than he already does in the future. We can't be certain that Zibanejad or Silfverberg will ever be as good as O'Reilly (I think Silfverberg will be...I have my doubts about Zibanejad).

Also money is a non-issue for us right now. We are doing a lot with very little in terms of money. Eventually we are going to have to start paying players if we want to have a good team with good players on it.
This is a good post. I cannot believe some of you out there that value silf or zibby more than o'reilly. You either have never seen him play or your swedish hard on is starting to take over your brain

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02-13-2013, 11:29 AM
  #218
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Guys we can lose are in the Latendress category - not critical for success.

Zibanejad should not be available unless its a home run coming back. ROR is not that - serviceable for sure, but not an elite.

I'd send a DaCosta or Smith type back for him with a lower pick.

Guys like Zibanejad and Silferberg plus Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Puempel, Noesen are the future F power of this team.

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02-13-2013, 11:29 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
According to Behind the Net, Landeskog - ROR - Hejduk

(Forwards in bold)

Landeskog 83.3%
Hejda 34.5%
Hejduk 33.6%
O'Brien 32.1%
E.Johnson 31.6%
Winnik 28.6%
O'Byrne 27.8%
Quincey 26.0%
Wilson 23.9%
Downie 18.9%
Thank you. I thought it was Lando and Winnik- didn't realize Hejduk had so many reps with him.

One could easily argue that they helped ROR's numbers even more than he helped theirs.

We don't need to get every player that is in dispute with their current team. He wants $5M/year and we'll have to give up some good pieces to get a player whose had 1 productive season? Colour me skeptical.

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02-13-2013, 11:30 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Zibanejad's tools are better suited for the wing. They just are. Smith can still be a great 3rd or 4th line centre, and if we had O'Reilly we would just have so many more options. Look at how strong offensively Pittsburgh was with Crosby - Malkin - Staal. Imagine Spezza - Turris - O'Reilly or even Spezza - O'Reilly with Turris on the wing.

Getting O'Reilly would make this team very, very strong and hard to play against. When you have guys playing down the middle that make everyone around them better it just makes your team so tough to play against. I don't see Zibanejad as that kind of player while O'Reilly definitely is.
At this moment MZ stinks at face-offs other then that his skill set is better suited for playing the middle position.

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02-13-2013, 11:40 AM
  #221
Curtinho
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Originally Posted by TeamRenzo View Post
At this moment MZ stinks at face-offs other then that his skill set is better suited for playing the middle position.
He's not a great passer, he doesn't carry the puck that well, he almost has tunnel vision and he loves to shoot almost as soon as he's over the blueline -- he's also great for standing in front of the net. His size, speed and skillset scream winger.

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02-13-2013, 11:42 AM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Guys we can lose are in the Latendress category - not critical for success.

Zibanejad should not be available unless its a home run coming back. ROR is not that - serviceable for sure, but not an elite.

I'd send a DaCosta or Smith type back for him with a lower pick.

Guys like Zibanejad and Silferberg plus Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Puempel, Noesen are the future F power of this team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Thank you. I thought it was Lando and Winnik- didn't realize Hejduk had so many reps with him.

One could easily argue that they helped ROR's numbers even more than he helped theirs.

We don't need to get every player that is in dispute with their current team. He wants $5M/year and we'll have to give up some good pieces to get a player whose had 1 productive season? Colour me skeptical.
You guys are crazy. O'Reilly is a rare kind of player and he is absolutely a homerun.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1423

Lando looked almost lost offensively without O'Reilly in the small sample size this year. O'Reilly made that line what it was and he makes all the players around him better.

ROR is serviceable...lol...and Zibanejad will likely never be as good as O'Reilly already is.

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:42 AM
  #223
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I wouldn' trade Zibanejad for ROR. I dont see first line potential from ROR. I do however from Mika.

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02-13-2013, 11:44 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
He's not a great passer, he doesn't carry the puck that well, and he loves to shoot almost as soon as he's over the blueline -- he's also great for standing in front of the net. His size, speed and skillset scream winger.
He has to get into the mentality of being a shooting centre, when he plays center he looks to his wingers to much and has the mentality of a set-up man - once he plays a bit and gets the confidence to shoot when he is playing center he will be that much better - we had the same issue with Spezza when he was young and once he started shooting he become a more complete player.

But having players that are versatile at forward is an asset - if we can move him from W to C that is only a good thing

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02-13-2013, 11:47 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
why?
We could use an upgrade in the bottom six. Obviously it isn't as much a priority of improving the top six and specifically centre depth but adding a player like Dorsett makes the Senators more competitive going forward.

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