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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXII

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:11 PM
  #326
JoemAvs
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Which Centers become UFA this summer?
Ya let us overpay an UFA after letting the prototypical 2nd line center walk for presumably bad value because he would only sign for 1.5 M cheaper than the UFA and not 2M.

Not a shot at you but I just shake my head about this whole mess right now. Our management needs to be tared and feathered.#
I can't see us keeping Stastny but we will not get anything good for him either.
So basically we go from 3 #1(b)/ #2(a) centers to 1 and get crap in return for them.
Great....

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02-14-2013, 03:17 PM
  #327
Bubba Thudd
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It's shuffling the deck...

They've tried to get decent Defensemen, but failed miserably.

So, trade ROR and Staz for a #2 and a #3 Defender (and maybe a little more).

Then Sign a Center or 2 from UFA until we can develop our own. We've had decent luck developing Centers, whereas we've sucked eggs developing defensemen.

I'm not saying this is my plan, nor that I approve of it. But it might be what Avs FO are thinking.

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02-14-2013, 03:23 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
This is completely embarassing that we're talking about what potential centers we can bring in when, less than a year ago, it was pretty much an accepted notion around the league that "the Avs are setup strong down the middle for their rebuild."

We have no direction. Zero.
It's just spit balling, lots of people are excluding Stastny in the future (I'm not) but ALL OF US are excluding O'Reilly in the future and trying to figure out what the team is going to look like.

I'm hoping for Bozak because I know hes from Denver and he'd be an above average third line center just like O'Reilly is, but obviosly not to the point where he is going to push Stastny or Duchene for a job. (Even if he thinks he can)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
It's shuffling the deck...

They've tried to get decent Defensemen, but failed miserably.

So, trade ROR and Staz for a #2 and a #3 Defender (and maybe a little more).

Then Sign a Center or 2 from UFA until we can develop our own. We've had decent luck developing Centers, whereas we've sucked eggs developing defensemen.

I'm not saying this is my plan, nor that I approve of it. But it might be what Avs FO are thinking.
In what world do we need to trade TWO of our top 6 centers for a defender? Not this one... (People forget that Stastny has made his life here, hes fairly settled in. I don't think hes going to leave as long as his salary is reasonable and hes in the top 6.)

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02-14-2013, 03:35 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
It's shuffling the deck...

They've tried to get decent Defensemen, but failed miserably.

So, trade ROR and Staz for a #2 and a #3 Defender (and maybe a little more).

Then Sign a Center or 2 from UFA until we can develop our own. We've had decent luck developing Centers, whereas we've sucked eggs developing defensemen.

I'm not saying this is my plan, nor that I approve of it. But it might be what Avs FO are thinking.
If we reshuffle the deck and trade ROR and Stastny we hopefully get someone who is atleast #2 dman and way more.
We don't really need a #3 dman. We have Barrie Elliott Siemens even Gaunce and Wilson to man the second pairing. And we are not winning anything soon anyways. If we are not capable of atleast getting two second pairing dman out of this group, I want our complete development staff fired immediately.

If we trade Stastny and ROR we better get a solid #2 with potential for more, a Center prospect which is fully capable (and pretty proven) of manning the #2 C role, a goalscoring prospect and maybe a pick out of it. If we don't get this, we should just make Sakic the full time GM and team president and chase everyone else to hell.

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02-14-2013, 03:36 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
It's just spit balling, lots of people are excluding Stastny in the future (I'm not) but ALL OF US are excluding O'Reilly in the future and trying to figure out what the team is going to look like.

I'm hoping for Bozak because I know hes from Denver and he'd be an above average third line center just like O'Reilly is, but obviosly not to the point where he is going to push Stastny or Duchene for a job. (Even if he thinks he can)



In what world do we need to trade TWO of our top 6 centers for a defender? Not this one... (People forget that Stastny has made his life here, hes fairly settled in. I don't think hes going to leave as long as his salary is reasonable and hes in the top 6.)
He isn't nearly as entrenched as you are putting out there. St. Louis is still what he considers his 'home'

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02-14-2013, 03:38 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
If we reshuffle the deck and trade ROR and Stastny we hopefully get someone who is atleast #2 dman and way more.
We don't really need a #3 dman. We have Barrie Elliott Siemens even Gaunce and Wilson to man the second pairing. And we are not winning anything soon anyways. If we are not capable of atleast getting two second pairing dman out of this group, I want our complete development staff fired immediately.

If we trade Stastny and ROR we better get a solid #2 with potential for more, a Center prospect which is fully capable (and pretty proven) of manning the #2 C role, a goalscoring prospect and maybe a pick out of it. If we don't get this, we should just make Sakic the full time GM and team president and chase everyone else to hell.
OK. Do we look (on paper, at least) like a better team if your conditions are met?

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02-14-2013, 03:41 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
OK. Do we look (on paper, at least) like a better team if your conditions are met?
Not really. I really value center depth and I think we could have gotten that #2 in FA or the draft if we would have stayed the course.
But what can you do in this mess of a situation?

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02-14-2013, 03:42 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
In what world do we need to trade TWO of our top 6 centers for a defender? Not this one...
I didn't say 2 Centers for 1 Defender. I said a #2, a #3, plus a bit more.

Then our D is set. EJ, #2, #3, with Elliott, Barrie, and Siemens coming up.

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02-14-2013, 03:43 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Not really. I really value center depth and I think we could have gotten that #2 in FA or the draft if we would have stayed the course.
But what can you do in this mess of a situation?
Duchene, Getzlaf, Bozak, Mitchell down the middle?

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02-14-2013, 03:45 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Duchene, Getzlaf, Bozak, Mitchell down the middle?
. This is the last place where Getzlaf would sign.
No I could see it something like Duchene, Schwartz,Pirate/Bozak, Mitchell.

And I would not be a fan but eh.

I really think that we should have given up Stazz (and his STL ties) for EJ in hindsight..
Now STL will probably not be able to afford his contract and he will just walk to them or we will get a crap return from them.

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02-14-2013, 03:45 PM
  #336
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The only team in the list that I don't see a deal I really like is Toronto. Every other team has top 6 parts plus a top prospect that I like.

Buffalo - Ennis or Foligno + Armia/Girgs/McNabb (grimace at that but true)
Florida - don't see a real top 6 player I like, but Kulikov as a defenseman + Bjugstad/Shore
NYI - Nielsen + Nino/Reinhart/Strome
Philly - Couturier + Laughton
Winnipeg - Little + Trouba

They all seem slanted to the Avs in value (and probably not the real proposals), but it looks like it will take an overpayment to get ROR. Out of the deals about Philly might be the most enticing. That could be a #2 and a #3 center for an elite #2 center. Winnipeg might be second as I am a big fan of Trouba and Little would bring back a #2C in case Stastny leaves.
Where are you getting this info? Are these real life proposals?
I really doubt teams are willing to give up as much as you think. Av's will not get a return like that from the teams you mentioned above.

ROR is a real good player but Colorado isn't exactly in a position of strength at the moment. Don't get your hopes up

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02-14-2013, 03:47 PM
  #337
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He isn't nearly as entrenched as you are putting out there. St. Louis is still what he considers his 'home'
Besides going over to play in Europe, he spent most of his time in Denver with his family. It's also not just about him but his family as well, and having a house here. Along with an organization that he is comfortable with and is comfortable with him.

We as fans critisize him quite a bit, but we have seen how adimently Avs management stands behind him when asked about trading him. They view him as part of our core despite his struggles.

On one hand I can understand that a little if management can step back and look at the fact that he hasn't had much offensive help on his wings throughout our rebuilding period. They also probably respect him for being a good soldier and enduring through our rebuild and a lack of talent around him.

However... If he does not produce when Landeskog is back and he has Landeskog or McGinn on his wing. Then we can start questioning how effective hes going to be long term even as a second line center. I don't think the front office has even considered Stastny not being one of our top 6 centers in the future, at least at this point. (I'm basing that on how close by him they have stuck throughout our rebuild and his struggles.)

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Where are you getting this info? Are these real life proposals?
I really doubt teams are willing to give up as much as you think. Av's will not get a return like that from the teams you mentioned above.

ROR is a real good player but Colorado isn't exactly in a position of strength at the moment. Don't get your hopes up
How are we not in a position of strength? O'Reilly's rights are held for the next 4 years, he does not have a no trade clause... AND we don't need him to 'contend' now. So we are not, and will not be forced into some sort of panic move. However plenty of other teams who are trying to compete for the playoffs or are suppose to and not, will and are panicking.

We won't realistically feel any pressure until the draft and even then only so much, when Colorado will feel pressure is if this is not resolved by the time next season begins.


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Old
02-14-2013, 03:53 PM
  #338
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Could depend on what Staz wants when he is due his next contract.

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02-14-2013, 03:55 PM
  #339
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So should we expect our centers to be: Duchene, Sgarbossa, Bozak/Mitchell, and Malone in a year or so?

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02-14-2013, 03:55 PM
  #340
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Where are you getting this info? Are these real life proposals?
I really doubt teams are willing to give up as much as you think. Av's will not get a return like that from the teams you mentioned above.

ROR is a real good player but Colorado isn't exactly in a position of strength at the moment. Don't get your hopes up
Not real life proposals. Players that fit the top 6 + top prospect rumors. Nothing more nothing less. The value is slanted to the Avs, but EVERYBODY is saying that the Avs asking price is very high. I expect a young NHL player with potential and a top prospect or a top caliber defensemen and the Avs have to add. Anything else I will be disappointed, and yes, I am expecting to be fully disappointed with the ROR deal. It is going to suck losing a player like him.

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02-14-2013, 03:55 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Duchene, Getzlaf, Bozak, Mitchell down the middle?
Oh, that could definitely work. However, do you see the Avs paying both Getzlaf and Bozak UFA money to come to Colorado? They'd have been better off just paying O'Reilly.

And I don't think Stastny is really tradeable until next year's deadline. $6.6M is a lot for a contending team to take on for a year. At the least, the Avs would have to take a $4.5M-$5M contract in return, I would think.

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02-14-2013, 03:59 PM
  #342
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Oh, that could definitely work. However, do you see the Avs paying both Getzlaf and Bozak UFA money to come to Colorado? They'd have been better off just paying O'Reilly.

And I don't think Stastny is really tradeable until next year's deadline. $6.6M is a lot for a contending team to take on for a year. At the least, the Avs would have to take a $4.5M-$5M contract in return, I would think.
Yeah... Talking about trading Stastny right now is like putting the cart before the horse, we need to see what the draft brings and what O'Reilly brings back in a trade before deciding what to do with Stastny.

If I was Avs management, I would also offer Stastny a contract extension this summer. (Around 5M) If he takes it great... focus on surrounding Duchene & Stastny with talent, if a guy like Mackinnon plays Stastny out of a job then we can always trade him.

Only way I see Getzlaf coming here is if we made a pitch for both him and Perry. Which I would of thought was possible until Anaheim started to prove this season they are not as bad of a team as everyone thought. They obviously having young players in the pipe and developing on their roster. I think Anaheim keeps both of them now, since other teams are not going to look SO MUCH better than Anaheim at this point.

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02-14-2013, 04:09 PM
  #343
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Frankly, giving away two good players for one good player seems to be this team's M.O. under Sherman.

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02-14-2013, 04:18 PM
  #344
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Frankly, giving away two good players for one good player seems to be this team's M.O. under Sherman.
Wasn't that only with the EJ trade?

Winnik can look good at times but Galiardi is barely a NHL player right now.

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02-14-2013, 04:24 PM
  #345
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There's always Hishon the Magician

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02-14-2013, 04:42 PM
  #346
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Wasn't that only with the EJ trade?

Winnik can look good at times but Galiardi is barely a NHL player right now.
Admittedly I'm getting a bit technical for levity's sake. We gave away two draft picks for Varly, one ended up being Forsberg, one was the pick we got for Liles. If Forsberg pans out then my argument isn't quite so erroneous.

I'm not jumping on the "Sherman OVERPAID" bandwagon but anyone who claims he's committed highway robbery on any of his trades is kidding themselves.

And Winnik does better than "look good at times."

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02-14-2013, 04:59 PM
  #347
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Admittedly I'm getting a bit technical for levity's sake. We gave away two draft picks for Varly, one ended up being Forsberg, one was the pick we got for Liles. If Forsberg pans out then my argument isn't quite so erroneous.

I'm not jumping on the "Sherman OVERPAID" bandwagon but anyone who claims he's committed highway robbery on any of his trades is kidding themselves.

And Winnik does better than "look good at times."
Sorry but McGinn & Sgarbossa + Connolly is way better than Galliardi & Winnik, which SJ lost the best of btw...

Winnik would of left us just the same as he left SJ... Shatty wasn't proven at all and we had Elliott & Barrie. It looks like a two for one good player trade right now because your slicing up who you talk about, and they have two players in the NHL while we have one out of the trade. So lets just say that on that one... You could be right or you could be wrong either way. Point is we don't know yet...

Quincey for Downie was a tremendous trade, so was Wolski & Mueller (We got Winnik in that trade as well.) I would say he has two trades where we got two good players for one or non Mueller/Winnik & McGinn/Sgarbossa, and then one trade still up in the air.

Mueller and Flash's injury issues are something that cannot be accounted for when evaluating those trades either. (Flash for Hannan was another good trade as well.)

IMO Sherman has gotten good/better than good value for players in the past, for the most part. I will admit I think Kirk was a mistake but I can understand the logic behind the move, and hind sight is always 20/20.

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02-14-2013, 05:10 PM
  #348
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Sorry but McGinn & Sgarbossa + Connolly is way better than Galliardi & Winnik, which SJ lost the best of btw...

Winnik would of left us just the same as he left SJ... Shatty wasn't proven at all and we had Elliott & Barrie. It looks like a two for one good player trade right now because your slicing up who you talk about, and they have two players in the NHL while we have one out of the trade. So lets just say that on that one... You could be right or you could be wrong either way. Point is we don't know yet...

Quincey for Downie was a tremendous trade, so was Wolski & Mueller (We got Winnik in that trade as well.) I would say he has two trades where we got two good players for one or non Mueller/Winnik & McGinn/Sgarbossa, and then one trade still up in the air.
SJ only "lost" that trade because they inexplicably got cheap and let Winnik walk after the season. And that was a stupid move for a club so desperate for forward depth they picked up a broken down Scott Gomez.

No, Wolski for Mueller was not a "tremendous" trade. Neither team benefited from it for more than a short time. You seem to forget that Wolski played like a beast for Phoenix before reverting to his usual inconsistent ways after snagging a big contract. Mueller was great for us...until he got hurt. In the end, neither team "won" that trade. It was damaged goods for damaged goods, and both players are now gone from those teams after marginal successes.

And the loss of Shatty only gets offset if Elliott and Barrie pan out. No guarantee of that, though the front office seems confident enough that at least one of them will.

Maybe Sherman gets vindicated, time will tell. You can sit here and argue the merits of each individual trade he's made all you want, but right now those moves are not adding up to a good team. In fact, right now it's all adding up to a HORRIBLE team.

And how did we get Winnik in the Wolski deal? He was acquired for a 4th rounder. What does that have to do with Wolski?

Sorry, but I'm getting a bit sick of the "Player A didn't want to be here, so we got good value because he would have left anyway" argument. At what point do we start asking WHY these players don't want to be here?

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02-14-2013, 05:11 PM
  #349
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Sorry but McGinn & Sgarbossa + Connolly is way better than Galliardi & Winnik, which SJ lost the best of btw...

Shatty wasn't proven at all and we had Elliott & Barrie.
Two tremendous oversights by team management right there, re: Shattenkirk and Elliott/Barrie.

Agree with you on the McGinn trade. That's the one really good one by Sherman.

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Quincey for Downie was a tremendous trade, so was Wolski & Mueller (We got Winnik in that trade as well.)
Winnik didn't come in the Wolski trade - that was Porter. The Avs got Winnik for a draft pick.

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02-14-2013, 05:22 PM
  #350
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I don't think there's an urgent need to go after a center from Colorado's perspective.

Though we often pretend he's already gone, Paul Stastny has another year on his contract and may be retained. Additionally, the Avalanche could select a center in the upcoming draft.

Finally, there are many reliable centers set to become unrestricted free agents in the next two off-seasons.

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