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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXII

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:30 PM
  #601
RockLobster
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
It's not my number one choice. As you probably know, that's Yandle for me, given he's had a higher offensive output in his career.

At a certain point, we'll probably have to settle for the next best option though. MDZ brings a big offensive and PP element to the Avs that they are sorely missing, and is still young and growing his overall game. I'm concerned over what the end result will be in the prospect we pick up if we go the route you suggest. Realistically, how much better than MDZ is it going to end up being? I think they're first and second best options have to be for at least a somewhat proven NHL player, preferably an offensive defenseman, as the center piece.

It will be tough to hit a home run with an O'Reilly trade, and bring in a player that will have as much impact for the Avs that O'Reilly would have.
I find this interesting. Because in my opinion, O'Reilly's intangibles that he brings to the table make it a bit harder to guage what he'll end up being.

There isn't, realistically speak, one of us on this board here that thought when we got him in the 2009 draft that he would give us a season like he just did. And he wasn't even playing with the best Offensive Options on his line until late in the year. (Landeskog didn't really get into a groove until about close to or after the ASG if I recall correctly).

His PP time improved, but I still feel that he was vastly under utilised on it, and deserved more time.

Realistically, if given a # 1 or 2 Center role, he can reach 70 points, and a peak year around 80 (a "perfect storm" season if you will).

So this WILL BE the trade that ends up determining Sherman's fate if you ask me.

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:35 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Size doesn't mean anything unless you use it. MDZ uses his frame very well. He's also more willing to block shots. He's grittier in every aspect of the game.

Suggesting he's Liles with size just proves you're have a discussion about a topic you're admittingly oblivious to.
What?

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:36 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I find this interesting. Because in my opinion, O'Reilly's intangibles that he brings to the table make it a bit harder to guage what he'll end up being.

There isn't, realistically speak, one of us on this board here that thought when we got him in the 2009 draft that he would give us a season like he just did. And he wasn't even playing with the best Offensive Options on his line until late in the year. (Landeskog didn't really get into a groove until about close to or after the ASG if I recall correctly).

His PP time improved, but I still feel that he was vastly under utilised on it, and deserved more time.

Realistically, if given a # 1 or 2 Center role, he can reach 70 points, and a peak year around 80 (a "perfect storm" season if you will).

So this WILL BE the trade that ends up determining Sherman's fate if you ask me.
I agree on trying to gauge what he would turn into. In terms of impact with O'Reilly though, I think we all have about the same idea of what kind of role he was capable of playing, and would have played on a Stanley Cup contending team down the road. Which would have been an integral part just defensively alone at it's worst.

That's why he's so highly valued. But even though every team probably values him a lot, the reason he probably doesn't have as high a trade value as other top players that were moved in the past, is because he only has one real offensive season, and is in a contract holdout.

That can be overcome, but it will limit the amount of teams at the Avs asking price, and therefore the kind of top players we can get in return. That's why it will be tough to get a home run return IMO.

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02-19-2013, 03:40 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Crown Heights for now, but I'm month to month at my place trying to save money, and change careers a bit.
Some rough parts in Brooklyn. Crown Heights isn't too bad. Good mixture. You moved from Colorado?

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What?
MDZ is not just Liles with size. That's what I'm trying to say.

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02-19-2013, 03:49 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Some rough parts in Brooklyn. Crown Heights isn't too bad. Good mixture. You moved from Colorado?
I'll hit you up by PM so we don't clutter the thread with my BS, haha.

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02-19-2013, 04:18 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
I want to see the Avs play Landeskog with Stastny, and go all in for Perry this summer. I'd love to see that line over a full season with a competent coach. I definitely think we'd be seeing the "re-emergence" of Stastny. I say that because I think Stastny is still making the plays...just no one there to consistently finish them.


Landy-Staz-Perry
McPing-Dutchy-PAP
Jones-Sgar/Mitchell-Downie
Highlander/Bordy-Mitchell/Malone-Olver

Would be so sweet, especially if we got a legit EJ partner out of the ROR trade

ROR-EJ
Hejda-Barrie
SOB/Siemens-Elliott


Last edited by Frenchy: 02-20-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 05:29 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Yup, I just got a woody.

Landy-Staz-Perry
McPing-Dutchy-PAP
Jones-Sgar/Mitchell-Downie
Highlander/Bordy-Mitchell/Malone-Olver

Would be so sweet, especially if we got a legit EJ partner out of the ROR trade

ROR-EJ
Hejda-Barrie
SOB/Siemens-Elliott
The only way this happens is if by some miracle we turn the season around and make the playoffs or come within a hairs breath. It's been pretty obvious over the past seasons free-agency period that up and coming teams will attract top end free-agents.

As it stands right now we don't have a prayer in landing Perry, now if Landeskog comes back kicking, and we get a good solid defender in the O'Reilly trade sooner rather than later I could see it.

Landeskog + #2 defender would fix a lot of issues with this team, and we are not getting bounced in games as hard as I thought we would. Tighten up the defense and add some more offense, and we could see some life.

Obviously we need to see some hope as well when it comes to EJ, but if Barrie continues to step up like he has we could weather that storm. This is about as sunshine and rainbows burgundy style as it gets though.

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02-20-2013, 09:09 AM
  #608
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So who is everyone's most preferred defenceman coming back if ROR is traded? Kulikov, Del Zotto, Yandle, someone else you would realistically prefer? Speaking strictly of the defenceman, not of the forward/prospect/pick whatever else may come back.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:18 AM
  #609
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Kulikov is my favorite, he and EJ could grow together and would be a great fit together, both are strong skaters, both are comfortable with the puck, both are good defensively, and both still have a lot of room to grow.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:20 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
So who is everyone's most preferred defenceman coming back if ROR is traded? Kulikov, Del Zotto, Yandle, someone else you would realistically prefer? Speaking strictly of the defenceman, not of the forward/prospect/pick whatever else may come back.
I'd be fine with any of those 3.

Kulikov
MDZ
Yandle

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:27 AM
  #611
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Kulikov is easily my preference. MDZ would add more offensively, but Kulikov is going to be a great 2 way defender. If MDZ was here and EJ goes down with an injury, I don't think that MDZ can carry a top pairing. Kulikov has that ability to carry a pairing if need be.

Plus Florida and the Avs seem to be good trading partners. With Weiss going away it seems Florida needs a center that can step in and they can build around for a few years. They can afford to give up a defensemen with Gubranson waiting in the wings.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:52 AM
  #612
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I don't think Yandle is an option, don't see him moving.

I'd be fine with getting any of these Defensman as parts of a package:

Sekera
Kulikov
MDZ
Trouba
Bogosian
JMFJ
Gudbranson

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:02 AM
  #613
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I think we need to temper our expectations. If there is a trade. It will probably be one for one or us adding a pick to make it happen for most of the guys wanted on defense.

I really don't think we're going to get the huge package some of us are talking about. If the avs refuse to budge on what they want, we could see this drag on until they finally give up those expectations.

We're going to be disappointed.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:08 AM
  #614
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I think we need to temper our expectations. If there is a trade. It will probably be one for one or us adding a pick to make it happen for most of the guys wanted on defense.

I really don't think we're going to get the huge package some of us are talking about. If the avs refuse to budge on what they want, we could see this drag on until they finally give up those expectations.

We're going to be disappointed.
I will be disappointed pretty much no matter what. Losing ROR will suck. The return will be high for ROR though. From the rumors, the Avs have pretty much put him up for bidding. Highest offer wins. I expect the Avs to get a young roster player with potential + high end prospect/high pick. Anything less than that should be a huge black mark on management.

In other words, the Avs have to 'win' this trade or it is utterly inexcusable to trade ROR. Therefor expectations should be high and the pitchforks should come out if the trade doesn't meet those.

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02-20-2013, 10:08 AM
  #615
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Eh, I think the Avs should wait until the offseason anyway, and taking that long should help them find the deal they're looking for.

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02-20-2013, 10:43 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
It's not my number one choice. As you probably know, that's Yandle for me, given he's had a higher offensive output in his career.
In comparison with MDZ, I would take Yandle pretty easily as well. I know I'm in the minority but I just keep seeing MDZ as a slightly better version of Quincey. If we bring in a d-man, I either want him to take some of the defensive pressure off of EJ (Staal, Alzner) or have it be a fantastic prospect with the chance at it becoming a home-run for the Avs (Trouba, to a slightly lesser extent Joe Morrow). I realize a lot of you guys are still thinking for THIS season but since you're getting a young commodity, let's make sure it's the right move for the next 10 years. I don't want a guy who's going to be playing with EJ and leaning on him, I don't think that's the right move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
I don't think Yandle is an option, don't see him moving.

I'd be fine with getting any of these Defensman as parts of a package:

Sekera
Kulikov
MDZ
Trouba
Bogosian
JMFJ
Gudbranson
Be very, very surprised to see these guys move at all. Both former 3rd overall picks and still very young. Too much potential for them to be included in a trade for RoR unless those franchise have seen holes in their game that they don't think they can eventually overcome.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:43 AM
  #617
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Eh, I think the Avs should wait until the offseason anyway, and taking that long should help them find the deal they're looking for.
This, the Avs are still the ones with leverage.

With all the injuries this season, and struggling Defense it looks like the season is a lost cause. Were not in any rush to move ROR right now. We still have our 1st and that could potentially bring back a very nice piece if we finish bottom 5.

IMO the Avs can sit and wait right up until the start to next season before making a deal if they have to.

The way I see it there will be 3 prime opportunities for us to get full value for ROR, and they are:

A) At the deadline when teams around the playoffs are getting desperate for added help. If we move him here it will likely be for a Top prospect and a 1st round pick. Teams wont want to move roster players when they're about to make a run for playoffs. Not an ideal time to move him IMO unless we can still get that roster player.

B) At the draft, when teams are evaluating what they have and the direction we want to take. This is when we could potentially get a Top 5 pick in a deal IMO, A team like WSH might still feel they're close to contending and just had a really bad year, adding a guy like ROR could instantly make them that much better, rather then say the 4th overall pick who would be 2-3 years from being as effective as ROR.

C) After Free Agent frenzy. This is the best time to move him IMO. Teams that miss out on the big name free agents like Getzlaf/Perry will be extremely desperate to get an impact player before next year. Nash got a damn good return all things considered last year, ROR could get a similar return from a desperate team.

These are 3 very good times to get good value for the Avs. At the deadline we could get something like Girgensons + 1st + Brennan from the Sabres if they're in the fight, or even Trouba from the Jets if they to are in the hunt. At the draft we could get a top 5 pick from someone like WSH or FLR if they feel they're still close to a playoff team. And in the offseason we could get anything from desperate teams that miss out on the big name free agents.

As long as the Avs stay patient, we'll get what we want I think.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:48 AM
  #618
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The only way this happens is if by some miracle we turn the season around and make the playoffs or come within a hairs breath. It's been pretty obvious over the past seasons free-agency period that up and coming teams will attract top end free-agents.

As it stands right now we don't have a prayer in landing Perry, now if Landeskog comes back kicking, and we get a good solid defender in the O'Reilly trade sooner rather than later I could see it.

Landeskog + #2 defender would fix a lot of issues with this team, and we are not getting bounced in games as hard as I thought we would. Tighten up the defense and add some more offense, and we could see some life.

Obviously we need to see some hope as well when it comes to EJ, but if Barrie continues to step up like he has we could weather that storm. This is about as sunshine and rainbows burgundy style as it gets though.
I highly disagree on the bolded part.

The new CBA rules gives us a fighting chance. Teams are no longer able to give life-time, zach parise type deals. Those were the deals the avs stayed away from, and rightfully so.

With 7 year max deals, and no more than 50% variance from the lowest year to highest, the avs wont have to compete with teams giving 10-15 M up front in salary/bonuses.

Teams wont be able to tack on "fake" years to get a low cap hit AND giving up huge dollars up front.

So yes, if they pony up the dough, the avs, and every other team with cap space, can acquire top end talent.

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02-20-2013, 10:56 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
I don't think Yandle is an option, don't see him moving.

I'd be fine with getting any of these Defensman as parts of a package:

Sekera
Kulikov
MDZ
Trouba
Bogosian
JMFJ
Gudbranson
I was impressed from what I saw from Trouba in the WJC.
7GP 4G 5A +2
He would be my first choice amongst the defensemen listed above.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #620
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I highly disagree on the bolded part.

The new CBA rules gives us a fighting chance. Teams are no longer able to give life-time, zach parise type deals. Those were the deals the avs stayed away from, and rightfully so.

With 7 year max deals, and no more than 50% variance from the lowest year to highest, the avs wont have to compete with teams giving 10-15 M up front in salary/bonuses.

Teams wont be able to tack on "fake" years to get a low cap hit AND giving up huge dollars up front.

So yes, if they pony up the dough, the avs, and every other team with cap space, can acquire top end talent.
That also means signing a FA comes down even more to selling them on the team he's joining. And Duchene's re-breakout helps in this regard, I'd like to say even more than the D tanking the team hurts us. Depending on who else comes calling the Avs could be an interesting landing spot for Perry, you either get to play with an explosive young star like Duchene, or a great playmaker who's similar to the center he'd be leaving and Landeskog. I'd imagine that's not the worst pitch for a guy like Perry. Still doubt we land him though.

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02-20-2013, 11:12 AM
  #621
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That also means signing a FA comes down even more to selling them on the team he's joining. And Duchene's re-breakout helps in this regard, I'd like to say even more than the D tanking the team hurts us. Depending on who else comes calling the Avs could be an interesting landing spot for Perry, you either get to play with an explosive young star like Duchene, or a great playmaker who's similar to the center he'd be leaving and Landeskog. I'd imagine that's not the worst pitch for a guy like Perry. Still doubt we land him though.
Oh, I very much doubt the avs get him either.

I just truly think the new CBA rules help the avs in that regard. They no longer have to compete with teams like the flyers/preds giving out 25M in guaranteed salary within 1 calendar year.

The worst youd probably see is 10M, 10M, 8M, 8M, 6M, 5.5M, 5M.

Thats a 52.5M/7yr contract. 7.5M cap hit.

And theres probably very few teams who can absorb that hit.

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02-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #622
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So...Cody McCormick is on Waivers from Buffalo.

Those who have been here as long as I have will remember that I think he's just the most awesome fighter in the league (even if stats prove he isn't)

I remember in one of his years w/ the Avs he fought Iginla, who kept his Visor on btw, and McCormick handled him, pretty nicely, he was fearless

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02-20-2013, 11:27 AM
  #623
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I really hope we don't get Del Zotto or Sekera, they aren't good enough to meet our needs. That includes God-iner and his royal Leaf-subjects.

Kulikov could be a good one, but Panthers fans feeling ok with letting him go for O'Reilly and saying he isn't a top pairing defender makes me wonder if the esteem I hold him in is misplaced.

Gudbranson would never be moved, nor Bogosian. I'm hesitant to believe Winnipeg would move Trouba either, but with their defensive core they might consider it if they are really high on O'Reilly. A Trouba + Little package for O'Reilly + someone valuable from our team might work out for both sides very well.

JJ/Yandle would be my preferred choice, but I think it might be a mistake to acquire them if it costs more than O'Reilly. We shouldn't be including other assets unless we're getting an OEL in return... a young defender that will be here much longer and already has shown or established top pairing play.

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02-20-2013, 11:27 AM
  #624
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I'd be okay with bringing McCormick back to replace Olver as the #4C. That would allow Bordy to eat nachos and Olver to play wing. His salary is a bit high at 1.2m though.

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02-20-2013, 11:29 AM
  #625
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
So...Cody McCormick is on Waivers from Buffalo.

Those who have been here as long as I have will remember that I think he's just the most awesome fighter in the league (even if stats prove he isn't)

I remember in one of his years w/ the Avs he fought Iginla, who kept his Visor on btw, and McCormick handled him, pretty nicely, he was fearless
The Avs would certainly be able to goon it up with him, Bordeleau, and McLeod.

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