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Old
03-13-2013, 09:16 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
So far, it looks like Strome was one hell of a pick at #5 in his draft year. Great to see.
those coach polls mean a lot. I remember Cizikas did really well in the same poll a few years ago.

Strome is very similar to Bailey in skill set, he had had two full years of junior hockey though.

And like Bailey, he will need
to get stronger and adapt to the speed of play. I hooe he manages to get some NHL games in this year

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03-14-2013, 12:22 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
those coach polls mean a lot. I remember Cizikas did really well in the same poll a few years ago.

Strome is very similar to Bailey in skill set, he had had two full years of junior hockey though.

And like Bailey, he will need
to get stronger and adapt to the speed of play. I hooe he manages to get some NHL games in this year
I think the fact Strome is a more well rounded player after this year is pretty good evidence that sending players back to junior instead of rushing them to the NHL can be beneficial in the long run. Ryan Strome's 200-foot game is much, much better than it was a season ago. His compete level, his defensive work, his willingness to go to the tough areas to score goals, is much improved. A lot of that is due to him being able to make those improvements and adjustments in his game against junior players, rather than being in over his head and attempting to make those improvements against NHL players.

This is exactly why I think another year of junior would greatly help Reinhart, but for the exact opposite reason as Strome. Whereas Strome needed to improve his play away from the puck, Reinhart now has to take that next step in his offensive game. He's already solid defensively. But is that really what the Isles want his max upside to be? A stay at home guy with very little offensive punch? One more year of junior where he focuses on improving his offensive game could see him make the exact same strides as Strome in becoming a good two-way player.

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03-14-2013, 02:40 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
So far, it looks like Strome was one hell of a pick at #5 in his draft year. Great to see.
PW,

Please stop trying to convince yourself that you are over the loss of a certain young man that is wearing a Bruins sweater....

Just give me Strome, Anders and Brock and my smile will be as big as

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03-14-2013, 03:24 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Wednesday

London 3, Erie 1-Pelech, -1.
Kitchener 3, Guelph 2-Pedan, 1 goal (14), -1 .
Pedan's PP Goal (against John Gibson, yes THAT John Gibson from USA WJC):

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03-14-2013, 04:16 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
those coach polls mean a lot. I remember Cizikas did really well in the same poll a few years ago.

Strome is very similar to Bailey in skill set, he had had two full years of junior hockey though.

And like Bailey, he will need
to get stronger and adapt to the speed of play. I hooe he manages to get some NHL games in this year
I get what you're saying & you're right but Strome's skill set is superior to Bailey's and not really all that similar IMO. Strome's skill set is more akin to Martin St. Louis, now if his work ethic is as strong as St Louis then we got ourselves a superstar.

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03-14-2013, 04:27 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Paulinho View Post
I get what you're saying & you're right but Strome's skill set is superior to Bailey's and not really all that similar IMO. Strome's skill set is more akin to Martin St. Louis, now if his work ethic is as strong as St Louis then we got ourselves a superstar.
My bad, thought you were comparing Josh Bailey to Martin St. Louis....... nevermind

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03-14-2013, 07:49 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Paulinho View Post
I get what you're saying & you're right but Strome's skill set is superior to Bailey's and not really all that similar IMO. Strome's skill set is more akin to Martin St. Louis, now if his work ethic is as strong as St Louis then we got ourselves a superstar.
Hmmm, really wouldn't be so sure about that bolded part.

Superior?

Bailey is a pretty doggone talented kid. His actual skillset isn't something astute followers of the game question when it comes to analyzing Josh. That he doesn't have more tangible NHL results is an entirely different issue - and not one that isn't very much linked to how the Isles handled him after his having been drafted.

And as far as pre-NHL achievements are concerned, who's to say Bailey wouldn't have done EVERYTHING or more than Strome has had Bailey been allowed to develop normally instead of being force-fed into the NHL as an 18 year old?

Heck, they brought him in right after a 96 point OHL season. It was a year in which, as we now know, he'd have piloted a Memorial Cup winner and likely would have been on a medal-winning Canadian WJC team.

This said, we better hope for our franchise's sake that Strome develops (or is allowed to by NYI management) much more properly than was the case with Bailey. They've definitely handled him differently. This team desperately needs him to take the kind of steps that the Eberles and Seguins of the league have for their teams. When he eventually arrives, it's THAT kind of impact he needs to make here.

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03-14-2013, 08:01 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Pedan's PP Goal (against John Gibson, yes THAT John Gibson from USA WJC):
Always nice to see the bluelining kids score on one-timers.

I'd like to add that I've seen Pedan's teammate Tanner Richard (Swiss player) on a number of occasions and that kid has 'it'. He just does. The kid is a pure and unadulterated playmaker. It just comes naturally. It's just in the blood.

Watch him a bit and you can really see it. He just dishes it. He is a pre-ordained PP QB and the type where, well, you can skate with him and hit him, but he gets that puck to open man with little ado. It just happens.

I'm very much assuming TB will sign him and bring him along.

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03-14-2013, 08:25 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Thought this was interesting: http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/a...es-poll/140462

Poll taken from all Eastern Conference OHL coaches on ranking the players from their own conference.

Strome was voted 1st in "Smartest Player", "Best Playmaker", "Best Stickhandler" and "Best Shootout Shooter"; voted 2nd in "Most Dangerous in the Goal Area"; voted 3rd in "Hardest Worker".

The "Hardest Worker" vote is nice to see. Especially after some people here accused Strome of floating too much.
Couldn't agree more with the bolded part. IMO, what separates Tavares from other highly skilled players is his work ethic. He took his weakness (skating) and has turned it into a strength. He is the hardest working player on the ice, he never takes a shift off, never stops moving. To me, it is why he will be a 100+ point player instead of an 80 point player.

If Stome's work ethic is anything close to Tavares', I can see him being a star in this league and wearing an A in a few years (I think we can all assume Tavares will get the C).

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03-14-2013, 08:40 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
And as far as pre-NHL achievements are concerned, who's to say Bailey wouldn't have done EVERYTHING or more than Strome has had Bailey been allowed to develop normally instead of being force-fed into the NHL as an 18 year old?
Strome passes like he means it. Bailey slides it to open ice. IMO the only skill Bailey equals Strome in is stick handling. (Bailey's straight-ahead speed is probably better than Strome, but Strome is a much shiftier skater).

I have no idea whether that has to do with Strome's extra development in juniors, but their skill sets are not comparable at this point. Bailey passes like he's got Taylor Hall flying along the wing at top speed to open space. Strome bends his knees, protects the puck, and calls saucer bank shots to the back of the net.

The only players on the Islanders who pass with the decisiveness, vision, and intention that Strome already has is JT and Visnovsky.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:48 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
PW,

Please stop trying to convince yourself that you are over the loss of a certain young man that is wearing a Bruins sweater....

Just give me Strome, Anders and Brock and my smile will be as big as
Haha, you know I was a pro-Hamilton guy leading up to the draft. BUT you should also remember that I had Stome as my 2nd choice and not by much. I'm just happy that Strome looks like he's panning out. His RH shot is very much needed on a LH shot dominated team.

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03-14-2013, 09:37 AM
  #437
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If the Islanders didn't take Bailey 9th, he might not have gone before 15. Never thought Bailey
had high end skills, Strome does have some high end ones. We don't have to worry about his work ethic, you better have that if you work out with Tavares.

Can Bailey become a useful player, yes but he seems like he can play a solid two way game, not as an offensive force.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:52 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Hmmm, really wouldn't be so sure about that bolded part.

Superior?

Bailey is a pretty doggone talented kid. His actual skillset isn't something astute followers of the game question when it comes to analyzing Josh. That he doesn't have more tangible NHL results is an entirely different issue - and not one that isn't very much linked to how the Isles handled him after his having been drafted.

And as far as pre-NHL achievements are concerned, who's to say Bailey wouldn't have done EVERYTHING or more than Strome has had Bailey been allowed to develop normally instead of being force-fed into the NHL as an 18 year old?

Heck, they brought him in right after a 96 point OHL season. It was a year in which, as we now know, he'd have piloted a Memorial Cup winner and likely would have been on a medal-winning Canadian WJC team.

This said, we better hope for our franchise's sake that Strome develops (or is allowed to by NYI management) much more properly than was the case with Bailey. They've definitely handled him differently. This team desperately needs him to take the kind of steps that the Eberles and Seguins of the league have for their teams. When he eventually arrives, it's THAT kind of impact he needs to make here.
Josh Bailey is now 23 years old. Sure, he was rushed, but this is his 5th year now. There are many people that would argue that drafting a player from SEL or KHL is safer because these prospects develop at a higher level of competition than the Juniors. Also, many of the 17-20 year old kids in these leagues get bottom 6 minutes with very little production, and nobody ever talks about their "development" to be ruined.

Bailey was indeed rushed by the Isles, but there is no telling what he would've become if they took the Strome approach. What's more concerning is the stagnation of progress with his game. Often times he looks lost out there. He doesn't always make the correct play in the offensive zone. He takes strange angles to loose pucks, angles that put him at a disadvantage to win battles for those pucks.

The skill is there with Bailey (don't think it is/ever was Strome level), but it's there. However, the way he processes the game has regressed. He just does not look comfortable out there. It seems as though he has no set role and is confused (perhaps overthinking) about what the right play is with and without the puck in the offensive zone.

Some of this is on Bailey, and some is on development/coaching. I truly believe that one thing that the line that separates great coaches and below average ones is very thin, and it hinges on that coach's ability to a) know his players inside and out, b) taking that knowledge and placing those players in a situation to succeed. Unfortunately Capuano seems to fail at both tasks.

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03-14-2013, 10:52 AM
  #439
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Funny thing about Bailey, he wasn't a bad pick if you look at who was drafted after him. The next five picks are two players that are clearly better (Hodgson and Myers) and three that look like busts (Beach, Teubert and Boychuck). Yeah, we could have gotten a better player, but also could have gotten a worse player. Even looking at the players drafted before him, Wilson is better, Filatov worse, Schenn about equal and Boedker may be better (he is putting up good numbers right now over a short period, like Bailey at the end of last year...would have to see if it holds up).

Basically, Bailey was a pretty average pick. As someone who wanted to draft Filatov, I can't complain about him too much.

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:52 AM
  #440
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Funny thing about Bailey, he wasn't a bad pick if you look at who was drafted after him. The next five picks are two players that are clearly better (Hodgson and Myers) and three that look like busts (Beach, Teubert and Boychuck). Yeah, we could have gotten a better player, but also could have gotten a worse player. Even looking at the players drafted before him, Wilson is better, Filatov worse, Schenn about equal and Boedker may be better (he is putting up good numbers right now over a short period, like Bailey at the end of last year...would have to see if it holds up).

Basically, Bailey was a pretty average pick. As someone who wanted to draft Filatov, I can't complain about him too much.
I'm not convinced Hodgson (who's the player I was hoping Smow would pick) is better. He's got a nice spot with Vanek and Pominville on a terrible BUF team but if you switch Bailey-Hodgson today, I don't imagine Hodgson would have more success than Bailey.

And BUF fans want to get rid of Tyler Myers for a bag of pucks. I saw them both live a few weeks ago and Myers is a MESS back there. Like, worse than Finley, and I'm not kidding. His confidence, decision-making is horrible and for his size, he's nt strong on the puck. Hodgson looked good but I could play with Vanek and Pominville.

Bailey's one player who has NEVER had good linemates in the NHL.

He's had a washed-up Weight, Sim other scrubs. His time with Okposo has been limited and they've looked pretty good together but KO had a hard time with JT-MM so he's hardly helping Bailey.

I like Bailey's skillset, his work ethic and I'd have him on the team even in a bottom six role. His lack of production is PARTLY related to his situation on Long Island but it's MOSTLY on HIM. He needs to be better. Especially THIS YEAR, that he's with better players, playing more minutes - and he has been better.

At this point, it's his 5th year, he'll either get it or he won't. But I think this is a player that would flourish in another organization. Which might be the best thing for him AND the Islanders.

I didn't worry about losing Comeau because it was looking like he simply wouldn't get his game right, not offensively anyway. He scored 24 goals (as did KO) but he never looked like he could "get it" and consistently deliver results, consistent work effort, consistent defensive play, etc. And it's been true since he left. In CAL (I've seen 4-5 games) Comeau's slotted into a checking role. He finishes his check, skates hard, gets off. He has two goals (like KO) and he's now a dime-a-dozen player.

Bailey's got far better hands and much better head for the game. There's A LOT there that in a different environment, he could take off. Does that worry me? well, yes. Because I'd like to see the Islanders give these guys a chance. Why does PAP get to play every shift with JT? Moulson? now Boyes? Why not try Bailey there?

Admittedly, Bailey's not the go-to player on an offensive line, he hasn't been that in the NHL, but if you aren't going to pick-up a Stephen Weiss or proper top six forwards to surround your young players with, then you may as well let them walk. And you'd be perennially selling low, after drafting and trying to develop players in your system. And balance that with reclamation projects (like PAP) that you let walk away as well, because you won't pay them, and you are guaranteed continual failure and lottery picks.

My rant is less about Bailey and more about how the Isles seem content to a sink-or-swim approach with their young players. And as of NOW, only Tavares is fourishing (oh, and his wingers, there's a surprise)

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:02 PM
  #441
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Bailey just hasn't been handled right. I still believe he could be a quasi Brent Sutteresque player on any other team in time, if he has HELP, a coach who has the team play physical and a chance to play center with that kind of help. He's a VERY smart player and works hard but is mentally stung out there {thanks, Garth!}.

I would not compare him to Strome as I would not compare B.Sutter to Mogilny.

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03-14-2013, 12:41 PM
  #442
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FWIW, Bailey in his draft year had 96 points, and Strome had 106. Not a huge difference. But if Strome were treated like Bailey he'd be in his 2nd NHL season right now. I still have hope for Bailey being a good top 6 player, but as Redbull said it would be nice to see him with good linemates for a change.

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03-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #443
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I am really surprised at how many opportunities Josh Bailey gets. He has never produced as an islander. Could be for a variety of reason, quality of linemates being one. Eventually, he is going to have to be judged against what he has accomplished. and in his 5 years he hasnt really done anything. I see alot of "hes a great defensive player, or 3rd line guy" but I dont even really see that. Maybe he can be next years Sam Gagner.

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03-14-2013, 02:35 PM
  #444
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I would not compare him to Strome as I would not compare B.Sutter to Mogilny.
Don't see the analogy...

When we've seen something really good from Bailey, I've thought he's looked a bit like what Henrik Sedin was flashin' his first few years. The kid should actually be a point-producer.

When we talk about a skillset, I'm thinking hands, vision, dekes, offensive instincts, ability to find people... that type of thing. I personally just do not know why he can't produce more or unpack some of his sick abilities on a far more frequent basis. Then again, there are two things NOT being done that would each immediately bolster his offensive impact
A) Play on the right wing side.
B) Play the RW on the JT line.

Seeing as how that first line is lacking in our own zone, can't help but think Bailey could at least help out in that department.

Again, we better hope that Strome is the better pro than Bailey when it comes to turning the existing skillset into tangible results.

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03-14-2013, 03:04 PM
  #445
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I am really surprised at how many opportunities Josh Bailey gets. He has never produced as an islander. Could be for a variety of reason, quality of linemates being one. Eventually, he is going to have to be judged against what he has accomplished. and in his 5 years he hasnt really done anything. I see alot of "hes a great defensive player, or 3rd line guy" but I dont even really see that. Maybe he can be next years Sam Gagner.
I don't think many people consider him a great defensive player, just a responsible one. One of the few on this team. I think he is a third line guy in that he can give you some offense and is decent in his own zone. He isn't a shutdown player, but not many wingers are. He is a pretty average player right now. The type of player you can have on your team so long as he is surrounded by better players. I still think he would be a good fit with JT and MM (he can keep up in the offensive zone, has good passing skills, and is better defensively than Boyes) but I don't think anyone thinks he is a first line player or that he will ever put up the type of numbers Gagner is putting up this year.

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03-14-2013, 03:10 PM
  #446
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Josh Bailey is now 23 years old. Sure, he was rushed, but this is his 5th year now. There are many people that would argue that drafting a player from SEL or KHL is safer because these prospects develop at a higher level of competition than the Juniors. Also, many of the 17-20 year old kids in these leagues get bottom 6 minutes with very little production, and nobody ever talks about their "development" to be ruined.

Bailey was indeed rushed by the Isles, but there is no telling what he would've become if they took the Strome approach. What's more concerning is the stagnation of progress with his game. Often times he looks lost out there. He doesn't always make the correct play in the offensive zone. He takes strange angles to loose pucks, angles that put him at a disadvantage to win battles for those pucks.

The skill is there with Bailey (don't think it is/ever was Strome level), but it's there. However, the way he processes the game has regressed. He just does not look comfortable out there. It seems as though he has no set role and is confused (perhaps overthinking) about what the right play is with and without the puck in the offensive zone.

Some of this is on Bailey, and some is on development/coaching. I truly believe that one thing that the line that separates great coaches and below average ones is very thin, and it hinges on that coach's ability to a) know his players inside and out, b) taking that knowledge and placing those players in a situation to succeed. Unfortunately Capuano seems to fail at both tasks.
Excellent post JP. You hit a number of things squarely.

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03-14-2013, 06:03 PM
  #447
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Strome is out of the line-up tonight. (bruised foot, day to day)

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03-14-2013, 08:25 PM
  #448
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Strome is out of the line-up tonight. (bruised foot, day to day)
Came here for this. Thanks for the info.

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03-14-2013, 09:11 PM
  #449
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Thursday

Barrie 4, Kingston 2-Theoret, even.
Brampton 5, Niagara 2-Graham, 1 assist, -1.
Note-Strome did take the pre game skate.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 03-15-2013 at 05:42 AM.
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03-14-2013, 10:06 PM
  #450
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Bailey's skill set is nowhere near Strome's. Just because he was good in juniors and his stats where similar to Strome's doesn't mean his talent is similar. Strome has superior stick handling skills, a much better shot and all around nose for the net. A much better skater, and better hockey sense.

Bailey sucks sorry but i really just like nothing about his game. He has been a huge dud and i just don't put all the blame on the Islanders even though they deserve a large amount of it. Bailey is just not that talented.

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