HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospect Talk PART VI

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-23-2013, 05:07 AM
  #576
steveat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,899
vCash: 500
What's going on with Kitchton now? Has there been a counter offer or a new offer on the table? Is the team even talking to him anymore? He rejects one offer and then you hear nothing about it after...come on sign this guy already.

steveat is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 08:29 AM
  #577
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Staples held a Newsday fanchat today. Among the questions asked, was which prospects had the best chances of sticking next season.

Staples wrote Strome has the best shot, because he fills a much-needed role as the No. 2 center. Anders Lee is his next pick and will in his opinion be here before this season is out. Nino is next, but Nino will be competing with Lee for a role. Reinhart is a longer shot, given his age, but the Isles love what he's been doing this season.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...1.3167071?qr=1
I pretty much agree with this. Lines up ith what I have been saying for a few months.

Anders Lee if signed is an NHL ready player, can contribute immediately as a power forward at the NHL level and can play LW or C. I see a lot of folks putting Lee in on the 4th line.... Lee is not a 4th liner, not on any team, especially not the Islanders.

Ryan Strome is probably the next ready among the forwards. Personally I would still give him 40 games to a full season (depending on his success) in Bridgeport to prove it. Waiting those extra 3 months would be very worth it in my opinion.

Nino is next. He is an interesting case, I'm certain Nino can score in the NHL next season as a 2nd line (or 3rd line) winger, probably 17-22 goals. But he offers very little else, he is so one dimensional at this point and incomplete as a prospect. In addition to me wanting to see more strength and physicality and defense I also really want to see more consistency and maturity. I have compared Nino to JVR in terms of game and style. I would look for 21 year old JVR numbers (21G-19A-40Pts in 75 games) from Nino if he plays next season in a similar role.

As for Brock Nelson, Johan Sundstrom and some others, they need more time. Nelson and Sundstrom are two of my favorite Islander prospects at this point, but next year is a very important year for their development. They are tall, lean 21/22 year olds (next seasons ages). They will need another year to develop strength and I think both will have an opportunity to become dominating AHL Players and become leaders.

I do think Staple forgot about one NHL Ready player. Matt Donovan. Simply put he's already better than several defenceman we have on the NHL club right now. He's a complete defenceman at this point and his +10 rating in the AHL with a struggling mostly minus club is very impressive. He has quick hands and good hand eye and has become very adept at clearing the crease by boxing out and clearing. DOnovan can clear the defensive zone which is something the NY Islanders NEED DESPERATELY. He's also a good power play QB with a quick release on a heavy, accurate shot. (though his PP Minutes weren't what they should have been).

I also agree Reinhart should go back to Juniors, His skating and offense need a lot of work. His speed as is right now would be a Huge issue at the NHL level.

Calvin de Haan playing a full healthy season in AHL next year would e ready for NHL by seasons end next season. All other defence prospects need at least a year or more.

InformTheMasses is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 08:46 AM
  #578
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,143
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
I pretty much agree with this. Lines up ith what I have been saying for a few months.

Anders Lee if signed is an NHL ready player, can contribute immediately as a power forward at the NHL level and can play LW or C. I see a lot of folks putting Lee in on the 4th line.... Lee is not a 4th liner, not on any team, especially not the Islanders.

Nino is next. He is an interesting case, I'm certain Nino can score in the NHL next season as a 2nd line (or 3rd line) winger, probably 17-22 goals. But he offers very little else, he is so one dimensional at this point and incomplete as a prospect. In addition to me wanting to see more strength and physicality and defense I also really want to see more consistency and maturity. I have compared Nino to JVR in terms of game and style. I would look for 21 year old JVR numbers (21G-19A-40Pts in 75 games) from Nino if he plays next season in a similar role.

.
The way Staple described it, sounds like it would be either Nino or Lee playing on the Isles next season. Why not both? Isles have young vets underwhelming in Okposo/Bailey who should have competition for their spots and the isles have older players like Aucoin/Reasoner, that the team should be looking to upgrade on.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 09:02 AM
  #579
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
The way Staple described it, sounds like it would be either Nino or Lee playing on the Isles next season. Why not both? Isles have young vets underwhelming in Okposo/Bailey who should have competition for their spots and the isles have older players like Aucoin/Reasoner, that the team should be looking to upgrade on.

I can see both, though I would love it if Nino went back to Bridgeort, he really needs to grow a lot more as a player and person. That said, he can contribute some goals next year (if nothing else).

Lee and Nino are both excellent net-front players, combine that with Matt Moulson and you have a high impact net front presence on each of the top 3 lines (assuming you spread them out, one per line). Also Matt Martin would also give some strong play there as well on a 4th line.

Something like....

Moulson-Tavares-Ullstrom
Nielsen-Cizikas-Nino
Grabner-Lee-Okposo
Martin-Bailey-C.McDonald

Most would flip Bailey and Ullstrom, but I disagree. Ullstrom is a much better offensive player and is actually a winger that has size and does well along the boards and wins pucks, also a good forechecker... Moulson and JT need that BADLY.

I also move Nielsen to the wing where he belongs, Cizikas is much better on draws, I think they can play great together in a two-way role with Nino on the other Wing.

When Strome is ready (soon) he forces a move, by then Moulson will either be moving on due to his impending UFA status ANd/Or it will be time to cut bait with Okposo and or Bailey after 6 seasons.

I really would like a Grabner-Lee-Okposo line. Grabner flying in on Breakaways with Lee charging the net following it up. Followed by Lee working the boards and corners setting up Okposo in the slot. Lee can give Kyle the screens he needs to get his shot off.


Last edited by InformTheMasses: 03-23-2013 at 09:11 AM.
InformTheMasses is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 09:07 AM
  #580
TeamKidd
Registered User
 
TeamKidd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 500
I think we might see Lee up here this year, that very well may bet he carrot dangled in front of him to bring him to sign his ELC.

As for next year, I think a lot will depend on training camp. I dont think anyone has a leg up on anyone else. I would LIKE the islanders to sign a quality first line winger with speed and toughness to play with JT. I would never consider a rookie for that role. But this is the islanders, so you never know.

Which ones make it to the club? You would have to think Donovan, Lee, and Strome based on their age(s) and pedigree. I could also see Nelson coming into camp 10 pounds heavier and making it very difficult for them to send him to the bridge. I really cant get a read on Nino...

TeamKidd is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 09:16 AM
  #581
islandermaniac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,276
vCash: 500
if staple is right, niederreiter may just end up in the ahl again. just imagine the flow of whining and tears from the swiss miss if that comes to pass.

islandermaniac is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 09:23 AM
  #582
A Pointed Stick
Dr. Bellows, To You
 
A Pointed Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,323
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
if staple is right, niederreiter may just end up in the ahl again. just imagine the flow of whining and tears from the swiss miss if that comes to pass.
A player screaming to be traded.

A Pointed Stick is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 09:31 AM
  #583
islandermaniac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
A player screaming to be traded.
i would like to see him moved. he is so not even close to ready for the nhl and all he is going to do is whine his way into the lineup (just like last year) and suck (just like last year). i'd rather see him traded while he could still fetch something. if he plays for the nyi next year, he will drive his value into the ground...again.

islandermaniac is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 09:43 AM
  #584
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,958
vCash: 500
My friends, you have come up some very good ideas, well thought out. I can"t really add to
what has been posted above.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
03-23-2013, 09:51 AM
  #585
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,958
vCash: 500
Again a reminder,Notre Dame vs Ohio State, 1 PM, MSG Plus.
CCHA semi final.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
03-23-2013, 10:14 AM
  #586
Beastrt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveat View Post
What's going on with Kitchton now? Has there been a counter offer or a new offer on the table? Is the team even talking to him anymore? He rejects one offer and then you hear nothing about it after...come on sign this guy already.
Arthur staple said they offered him 5th round money he wants more and thinks he can go higher. Staple also said that the islanders have 48 contracts when then the max is 50. if they signed mayfield and lee, i think that would be 50. If they don't sign one of them maybe they will give him more money but thats just speculating. It may have been a take it or leave it offer.

Beastrt is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 10:26 AM
  #587
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,143
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
i would like to see him moved. he is so not even close to ready for the nhl and all he is going to do is whine his way into the lineup (just like last year) and suck (just like last year). i'd rather see him traded while he could still fetch something. if he plays for the nyi next year, he will drive his value into the ground...again.
I don't know how you can say, that if Nino plays for the isles next season he'll drive his value into the ground.
Snow has been in attendance for 3 of Nino games this season. In each game, Nino has been arguably the best Sound Tiger, played impressively.

I look at the Leafs and 22 yr old Kadri...how many fans wrote Kadri off because of his early struggles, his extended stay in the AHL. Now, he's got 28 pts and is among the top 15 nhl scorers.

I agree Nino's immature. But, so is a kid like Evander Kane.
Should Winnipeg trade Kane because he's immature?

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 10:32 AM
  #588
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post

I agree Nino's immature. But, so is a kid like Evander Kane.
Should Winnipeg trade Kane because he's immature?
Not saying I disagree and think the Islanders should wait a bit (for him to grow up) before pedaling him off but there is a huge difference between Kane and Nino.

Kane has more grit/toughness/drive/desire in his fingernail than Nino has in his whole family tree.

InformTheMasses is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 10:39 AM
  #589
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,143
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Not saying I disagree and think the Islanders should wait a bit (for him to grow up) before pedaling him off but there is a huge difference between Kane and Nino.

Kane has more grit/toughness/drive/desire in his fingernail than Nino has in his whole family tree.
Then use Kadri as an example. 22 yrs old, former 7th overall pick. He was unable to stick and produce in the NHL until this season. The Leafs had him play in the AHL for a couple of seasons and if we went by armchair gms opinions, he was a bust, Toronto should have dumped him for whatever they could get.


Right now, his 33 pts are tied with Tavares 33 and Pavel Datsyuk's 33 pts.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 10:46 AM
  #590
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Then use Kadri as an example. 22 yrs old, former 7th overall pick. He was unable to stick and produce in the NHL until this season. The Leafs had him play in the AHL for a couple of seasons and if we went by armchair gms opinions, he was a bust, Toronto should have dumped him for whatever they could get.


Right now, his 33 pts are tied with Tavares 33 and Pavel Datsyuk's 33 pts.
Believe me, I totally agree. 99.99% of players are not ready to contribute in the NHL AND Mature/Strong enough to go through an entire NHL Season until they are 22 or 23 years old.

There are a few exceptions, exceptional talents and/or players put in perfect situations (typically strong teams with veteran presence and have their minutes managed very carefully in all phases).

Obviously Tavares was an exception (and a top of the line one). The only other current Islander (player/prospect) that fits that mold is Ryan Strome who will be 20 next year. I still give him at least 40 games in Bridgeport..... and then I put him on Tavares' RW for a season and a half. When he's 22 and we Move to Brooklyn, He is the teams 2nd line Center.

Just My Opinion.

InformTheMasses is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:00 AM
  #591
A Pointed Stick
Dr. Bellows, To You
 
A Pointed Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,323
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
My friends, you have come up some very good ideas, well thought out. I can"t really add to
what has been posted above.
Your point is well taken, but in the end this is not one of those concepts that require one to analyze it to death. The club needs upgrades in the near future that are more important than Nino's best possible ceiling 5 years from now. The organization constantly makes the excuse that the reason they won't make any trades is because they don't want to upset their great plan. Nino has presented them with a real problem by demanding a trade and has let his agent's poor decision go so far as to impact his development this year. Luckily the kid's trade value is still good. If ever there was a prospect you could move with a clean conscience for the better good of the rebuild it is him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Then use Kadri as an example. 22 yrs old, former 7th overall pick. He was unable to stick and produce in the NHL until this season. The Leafs had him play in the AHL for a couple of seasons and if we went by armchair gms opinions, he was a bust, Toronto should have dumped him for whatever they could get.

Right now, his 33 pts are tied with Tavares 33 and Pavel Datsyuk's 33 pts.
Did Kadri demand a trade?
Did Kadri see an extremely suspicious decline in his play when he didn't get something he wanted?
Did Kadri's agent reach out to other GMs for input on a trade demand?
Did Kadri seem to hold his development hostage over these issues?

I don't think you can compare the two. Kadri has been a good soldier. Nino looks much more like Kyle Turris, who was traded.

IMO, trade him for things we know we need that would help now. No one is saying trade all the prospects ala Milbury, but SOMEONE needs to go in a package. Nino + 1st rounder is a pretty solid trade package for a good, not-old piece to help the development of many of the pieces we know are suffering from having no help.


Last edited by A Pointed Stick: 03-23-2013 at 11:36 AM.
A Pointed Stick is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:30 AM
  #592
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,143
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post


Did Kadri demand a trade?
Did Kadri see an extremely suspicious decline in his play when he didn't get something he wanted?
Did Kadri's agent reach out to other GMs for input on a trade demand?
Did Kadri seem to hold his development hostage over these issues?

I don't think you can compare the two. Kadri has been a good soldier. Nino looks much more like Kyle Turris, who was traded.

IMO, trade him for things we know we need that would help now. No one is saying trade them all the prospects ala Milbury, but SOMEONE needs to go in a package. Nino + 1st rounder is a pretty solid trade package for a good, not-old piece to help the development of many of the pieces we know are suffering from having no help.
If Snow meet the wishes of every player who didn't want to join the isles or wanted to be traded, we wouldn't have Nabby on the team and we wouldn't have Vis on the team.

When was the ufa age lowered to 20 yrs old? I didn't realize Nino and his agent demanding a trade, meant Snow had no choice but to trade him

The press reported Nino demanded a trade around Jan 22. Let's figure it took about 7-10 days between the trade demand, Snow's refusal and the news making it to the press. Nino didn't put up a pt in the 6 games between his trade demand and Snow's refusal. Was he sulking, showing signs of immaturity? I think so.

I've already pointed out in this thread I think Nino's immature. However, his noticable extra effort in the 3 games he's played in front of Snow and his improved stats in March ( 4g, 2a in 10 games), show that Nino's not likely to get back to the NHL and intentionally put up a crappy effort.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:35 AM
  #593
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post

I've already pointed out in this thread I think Nino's immature. However, his noticable extra effort in the 3 games he's played in front of Snow and his improved stats in March ( 4g, 2a in 10 games), show that Nino's not likely to get back to the NHL and intentionally put up a crappy effort.
Perhaps not right away, but with these type's of kids/personalities short term limited success leads to complacency often and really quickly. He needs to grow up and grow a pair.

Not writing him off, and I actually think he makes the team next year, but he won't light the world on fire. Not for a few years.

InformTheMasses is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:40 AM
  #594
Snapshotgoal
Registered User
 
Snapshotgoal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Tampa FL
Country: United States
Posts: 387
vCash: 500
Does anyone think Nino will be called up this season? I'm so confused because he's doing good in the AHL but yet we really haven't called up anyone this season. Sometimes I think the Islanders are just sacrificing the season for yet another draft pick.

I'm very frustrated watching this team yet again. Nino has the size that we need to muck in front of the net..

Snapshotgoal is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:40 AM
  #595
A Pointed Stick
Dr. Bellows, To You
 
A Pointed Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,323
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
If Snow meet the wishes of every player who didn't want to join the isles or wanted to be traded, we wouldn't have Nabby on the team and we wouldn't have Vis on the team.

When was the ufa age lowered to 20 yrs old? I didn't realize Nino and his agent demanding a trade, meant Snow had no choice but to trade him

The press reported Nino demanded a trade around Jan 22. Let's figure it took about 7-10 days between the trade demand, Snow's refusal and the news making it to the press. Nino didn't put up a pt in the 6 games between his trade demand and Snow's refusal. Was he sulking, showing signs of immaturity? I think so.

I've already pointed out in this thread I think Nino's immature. However, his noticable extra effort in the 3 games he's played in front of Snow and his improved stats in March ( 4g, 2a in 10 games), show that Nino's not likely to get back to the NHL and intentionally put up a crappy effort.
No one said he had to move him, but given the players, restricted ones, who have demanded and received trades, it is obvious that the act of going public with the demand sours the relationship that they are in enough to make it happen sooner or later. Turris and Johnson come to mind immediately, but you can go back to Lindros for the ultimate yardstick of that.

IMO, that is how this story ends sooner or later. The dye has been cast. Why wait when you have pressing needs?

A Pointed Stick is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:51 AM
  #596
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,143
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
No one said he had to move him, but given the players, restricted ones, who have demanded and received trades, it is obvious that the act of going public with the demand sours the relationship that they are in enough to make it happen sooner or later. ?
Shouldn't the isles have a sour relationship with Nabby? Only the fact that the isles tolled his contract and he wanted to get back in the NHL, got him into a NYI uniform.

The front office should have an even more bitter relationship with Visnovsky.
1.Hours after saying he was surprised by the trade, but would play hard for the NYI, Vis told the European press he was gonna think things over and might retire or play in Europe.
2.He had his agent go to arbitration to try to void the trade.
3.Only after the KHL President pulled his support and said Vis couldn't play in the KHL, did Lubo grudgingly agree to join the isles.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:55 AM
  #597
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,143
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshotgoal View Post
Does anyone think Nino will be called up this season? I'm so confused because he's doing good in the AHL but yet we really haven't called up anyone this season. Sometimes I think the Islanders are just sacrificing the season for yet another draft pick.

I'm very frustrated watching this team yet again. Nino has the size that we need to muck in front of the net..
Based on the fact that 6'3 Anders Lee could pull a Justin Schultz and be declared a free agent + the comments from a recent fan chat, imo it sounds like the isles are looking to sign Lee, add him to this seasons NYI roster and burn the 1st yr off his contract.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 11:58 AM
  #598
duster19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I don't know how you can say, that if Nino plays for the isles next season he'll drive his value into the ground.
Snow has been in attendance for 3 of Nino games this season. In each game, Nino has been arguably the best Sound Tiger, played impressively.

I look at the Leafs and 22 yr old Kadri...how many fans wrote Kadri off because of his early struggles, his extended stay in the AHL. Now, he's got 28 pts and is among the top 15 nhl scorers.

I agree Nino's immature. But, so is a kid like Evander Kane.
Should Winnipeg trade Kane because he's immature?
If Nino played like Kane, the Isles overlook his maturity level.

duster19 is online now  
Old
03-23-2013, 12:02 PM
  #599
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,143
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by duster19 View Post
If Nino played like Kane, the Isles overlook his maturity level.


Well, let's show some patience with 20 yr old Nino and if/when he produces at the nhl level, we can all overlook his immature outbursts

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
03-23-2013, 12:07 PM
  #600
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Well, let's show some patience with 20 yr old Nino and if/when he produces at the nhl level, we can all overlook his immature outbursts
Kane's 'immaturity' leads to mistakes made by being over-aggressive (mistakes any fan doesn't mind seeing since they are derived from effort).

Nino's immaturity to this point leads to giving up and sulking in a corner and little effort. HUGE difference.

InformTheMasses is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.