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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the equally confused thread) x2

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Old
11-05-2013, 10:31 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
I honestly don't think he's improved defensively since a few seasons ago.
He peaked the 70 point season the year after the 30 goal season.

He was great offensively, defensively, at ES and on the PP.

Edit: He had 32 ESA in 2010. He's had 21 since then. Ugh.

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11-05-2013, 10:32 AM
  #427
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Again...lots look at their respective D partners...

Brian Leech + James Patrick/Jeff Buekeboom/Ulf Samuelsson
Larry Murphy + Scott Stevens/Ulf Samuelsson/Niklas Lidstrom
Sergei Gonchar + Joe Reekie/Brendan Witt/Brooks Orpik

Duncan Keith + Brent Seabrook

now...

Mike Green + Shamo/Schultz/Hamrlik


Which D partners would YOU guys rather have?

Heck even Calle Johansson had Rouse/Tinordi/Witt

Green has had absolute dung as his D partners outside of half a season with Alzner.

Now once again we pair him with a subpar partner.

And Duncan Keith is a VERY comprable player. Keith has had FAR FAR more to work with than Green ever had so its not fair to 52 at all.

Switch Seabrook and Schultz on the respective teams and the Caps have a cup and Green a couple Norris trophies. Simple as that.

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11-05-2013, 10:34 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Again...lots look at their respective D partners...

Brian Leech + James Patrick/Jeff Buekeboom/Ulf Samuelsson
Larry Murphy + Scott Stevens/Ulf Samuelsson/Niklas Lidstrom
Sergei Gonchar + Joe Reekie/Brendan Witt/Brooks Orpik

Duncan Keith + Brent Seabrook

now...

Mike Green + Shamo/Schultz/Hamrlik


Which D partners would YOU guys rather have?

Heck even Calle Johansson had Rouse/Tinordi/Witt

Green has had absolute dung as his D partners outside of half a season with Alzner.

Now once again we pair him with a subpar partner.

And Duncan Keith is a VERY comprable player. Keith has had FAR FAR more to work with than Green ever had so its not fair to 52 at all.

Switch Seabrook and Schultz on the respective teams and the Caps have a cup and Green a couple Norris trophies. Simple as that.
Can you provide more examples from 20 years ago?

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11-05-2013, 10:51 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Can you provide more examples from 20 years ago?
Gonchar example was from a couple years ago and Keith is a current example.

Keith, Gonchar, Murphy, Leech are comprable players to Green in that they are most effective with a D partner who is capable of carrying the physical load and dishing out the MEAN.

But lets go for Letang as another. He had Orpik for a while there (altho now I think he's with Scuderi perhaps?)

How many do I need to present? There aren't a ton of elite offensive dmen in this mold?

I guess Erik Karlsson has Marc Methot now. Methot is solid and by far better than anyone Green ever had sans half a year of Alzner.

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11-05-2013, 11:07 AM
  #430
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You can't really blame Schmidt for Green's struggles this season. He has looked absolutely terrible with all the turnovers and poor defensive decisions, and that has very little to do with his defensive partner.

In the years past? Yes. This season? No way.

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11-05-2013, 11:26 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by trick9 View Post
You can't really blame Schmidt for Green's struggles this season. He has looked absolutely terrible with all the turnovers and poor defensive decisions, and that has very little to do with his defensive partner.

In the years past? Yes. This season? No way.
First off its been 14 games. 14 ...I guess you were ready to buy out Ovechkin at this point last year too eh?

I have already said 52 needs to and will play better. He is not playing well right now but I've seen enough to know that this happens with all players. They have streaks where they don't play as well as they are able.

Giroux and Malkin...these guys are struggling a bit right now too but I am 100% sure all of them will turn things around.

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11-05-2013, 01:27 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
First off its been 14 games. 14 ...I guess you were ready to buy out Ovechkin at this point last year too eh?

I have already said 52 needs to and will play better. He is not playing well right now but I've seen enough to know that this happens with all players. They have streaks where they don't play as well as they are able.

Giroux and Malkin...these guys are struggling a bit right now too but I am 100% sure all of them will turn things around.
Not exactly my point. I was kind of arguing against the fact that Schmidt is the biggest reason Green is struggling right now.

Green can turn it around, we all know that. But i don't think they are going deep in the playoffs with him as their top D-man.

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12-10-2013, 07:34 PM
  #433
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Question for Cap fans.

What do you think the chances are of the Caps buying out Green in the Summer?

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12-10-2013, 07:43 PM
  #434
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Question for Cap fans.

What do you think the chances are of the Caps buying out Green in the Summer?
Obviously zero. He could be traded though.

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12-10-2013, 08:38 PM
  #435
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I really enjoyed the Mike Green melt down tonight. Could this have been rock bottom?

I should also mention he had a assist tonight to go with all his penalties and turnovers.

See Rob now you can look up at your Mike green poster and say "Damn Right He Had an Assist"

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12-10-2013, 09:02 PM
  #436
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Some stupid GM, would take green off our hands. I could see the ducks wanting him because his good years with bruce.

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12-10-2013, 09:11 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by butters8814 View Post
Some stupid GM, would take green off our hands. I could see the ducks wanting him because his good years with bruce.
Seriously, the few times I have really focused on this, it seems clear this team is better without him. Does that mean they can win a cup with all of the rookies, or that Green is useless? No. But, the flow is just much better and 74 can run the point just fine.

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12-11-2013, 07:18 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post
I really enjoyed the Mike Green melt down tonight. Could this have been rock bottom?

I should also mention he had a assist tonight to go with all his penalties and turnovers.

See Rob now you can look up at your Mike green poster and say "Damn Right He Had an Assist"
Its hard to take you seriously when you snipe like this. Never see you around after Green scores a crucial OT goal like the one in the playoffs vs Lundqvuist.

But as soon as he has a bad period in a regular season game against a non-division opponent you POUNCE.

Its really not a good look. Really...

He had a terrible first period. He bounced back well and was solid and physical the last 2 periods.

And yes he did have a nice primary assist on the PP. I still contend he is a superior PP QB.

Carlson had 6:52 in PP TOI with nothing to show for it. Green had 1:57 and had a primary assist on a perfect pass.

The true difference between the Tinner and Mr. Gone when it comes to certain players:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...echkin&page=18

RE: Ovechkin when he was down and out

Mr. Gone:

To bad he does not put his worth into his paycheck.
The Tinner:

There is NO WAY, were I GM, that I'd ever consider trading Ovechkin. I would hang up the phone without listening to any offers.

This player's story is not finished. I forsee he will bounce back and lead the Caps to glory.



No way. He can have a comeback easily.

Remember Peter Bondra? Was a 50 goal scorer...who then went to a 20 goal scorer within 2 years and was rumored to be on the block (for Zubrus of all people)

Then he came back with 45 and 39 goal seasons immediately after.

Caps go as Ovechkin goes and he will turn it around. We need to worry about the players/system outside of him.


One of these posters sticks by his guns and the players that turned the Caps around.

The other poster loves to snipe cheap shots when a player is down.


Last edited by BobRouse: 12-11-2013 at 07:39 AM.
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Old
12-11-2013, 10:45 AM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Its hard to take you seriously when you snipe like this. Never see you around after Green scores a crucial OT goal like the one in the playoffs vs Lundqvuist.

But as soon as he has a bad period in a regular season game against a non-division opponent you POUNCE.
You cherry pick everything to fit your spin. Like last night it took two passes to get the puck to OV while the defender did not have a stick.

The good will never out weight the bad with Mike Green.

I have never liked Mike Green and I would have traded him after 2008. It was clear then this team the way it was built was not going to win with him as the #1D. And it been a steady down hill slide for him since 2009.

And just like I said a few time now when he scored that over time goal in the playoffs. I jumped out of my seat happy for a huge win and then said FU Mike Green. Knowing that moment we were going to be stuck with him. And the team is still paying for that moment.

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12-11-2013, 10:47 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post
You cherry pick everything to fit your spin. Like last night it took two passes to get the puck to OV while the defender did not have a stick.

The good will never out weight the bad with Mike Green.

I have never liked Mike Green and I would have traded him after 2008. It was clear then this team the way it was built was not going to win with him as the #1D. And it been a steady down him slide for him since 2009.

And just like I said a few time now when he scored that over time goal in the playoffs. I jumped out of my seat happy for a huge win and then said FU Mike Green. Knowing that moment we were going to be stuck with him. And the team is still paying for that moment.
You would have bought out or dumped Ovechkin too.

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12-11-2013, 05:13 PM
  #441
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a positive from yesterday was that he came back and was hitting and skating.
too often in the past 2 years he has been lacksdaisical with his passing and unwillingness to be hit and not delivering those open ice hits that he is good at.

at least yesterdays bad play lit a fire at the end of his marijuanas and he looked like he cared.

problem is that when he plays so long without playing at 100% effort and tenacity, its hard for him to transition to that guy at the flick of a switch.

UGH. i love greeny. his best is top 3 in the league and can dominate a game. thats why its so hard to say we should move him but with Carly and Orlov and some of the young guys showing good offensive flair, maybe it makes sense.

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12-14-2013, 10:25 AM
  #442
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Green......your team needs you. The Green from a few years ago that is. Just so frustrating to watch him again last night.

Failed to clear and then a lackadaisical approach trying to make up for that mistake led to a goal.

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12-14-2013, 10:53 AM
  #443
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If McPhee could trade him for a defensive stud with a similar cap hit it would be a miracle.

I don't see it happening though.

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12-14-2013, 11:22 AM
  #444
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You would have bought out or dumped Ovechkin too.
You know. Just because Ovechkin recovered his game doesn't mean that Green will. Just because Lindros couldn't come back from concussion problems doesn't mean that Crosby couldn't. Just because Selanne is effective into his 40s doesn't mean that everyone will be. Just because Joe Thornton struggled as a rookie doesn't mean Ovechkin did too.

It's been 4 years since Green played a good full season. What Ovechkin has done in has career has nothing to do with what Green has or hasn't done with his own.

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12-14-2013, 11:59 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
You know. Just because Ovechkin recovered his game doesn't mean that Green will. Just because Lindros couldn't come back from concussion problems doesn't mean that Crosby couldn't. Just because Selanne is effective into his 40s doesn't mean that everyone will be. Just because Joe Thornton struggled as a rookie doesn't mean Ovechkin did too.

It's been 4 years since Green played a good full season. What Ovechkin has done in has career has nothing to do with what Green has or hasn't done with his own.
You've just highlighted the very logic used for many of the excuses made for this organization over the years.

Anecdotes are not data. The existence of outliers does not make everything else irrelevant. Simply finding an example of what you want to happen doesn't mean it will happen.

An 8 seed making a rare trip to the Finals doesn't mean just making the playoffs should be enough of a goal and that everyone has an equal chance. Being near last place in December and turning around and making the playoffs with a historic run doesn't mean you're a fool to be concerned when a team stinks early in the year. Player X making a comeback doesn't mean every other player who has fallen off will make a comeback.

These aberrations are things apologists search for and cling to because it keeps their positions alive longer than they should be, not because they're proof of anything.

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12-16-2013, 07:23 AM
  #446
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
You know. Just because Ovechkin recovered his game doesn't mean that Green will. Just because Lindros couldn't come back from concussion problems doesn't mean that Crosby couldn't. Just because Selanne is effective into his 40s doesn't mean that everyone will be. Just because Joe Thornton struggled as a rookie doesn't mean Ovechkin did too.

It's been 4 years since Green played a good full season. What Ovechkin has done in has career has nothing to do with what Green has or hasn't done with his own.
Well you seem CONVINCED that he won't.

Its funny how you use a good "full season" as the criteria. Green has been injured alot in two of those seasons while Ovechkin has not. This is not a full season yet but Ovechkin has not had a good "full season" since 09-10....the last year Green had a good "full season"

Hogwash argument. Green is 27 or 28 years old. As a Dman that is still very young and you act as his story is completely written. No...you act as if you KNOW his story is done.

Alot of people thought the same about Ovie at the beginning of last year and even the year before. Its the dreaded "what have you done for me lately" mindset and just having a great many reactionary fans/writers around.

Either way he looks to be getting shots through more lately and nice to seem him score vs Philly.

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An 8 seed making a rare trip to the Finals doesn't mean just making the playoffs should be enough of a goal and that everyone has an equal chance.
See this is overlooking something...

Going into the season every teams goal is to win a cup. Sure some are rebuilding or what not but generally thats the case.

So how do you do this???

Well... FIRST you have to MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.

How do you make the playoffs??

Well you want to win your division to ensure a spot.

How do you win your division??

You have to win games. You start with 1 game at a time.

How do you win a game??

You have to win each period...and you do that by winning a shift.


You may not win the Stanley Cup if you make the playoffs but I can GUARANTEE you WON'T win a Stanley Cup if you don't make the playoffs.



Now as far as Green. We are all expressing our beliefs and predictions. I believe he is a strong player and will bounce back. I've listed examples of others bouncing back. You all act as if it can't be done. I don't subscribe to that point of view.


Last edited by BobRouse: 12-16-2013 at 07:32 AM.
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12-16-2013, 08:55 AM
  #447
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I think we have had several examples of 7 or 8 seeds making the finals in recent seasons, have we not? its not one. I can remember the flyers and the kings off the top of my head. is there another?

why are we talking about this anyway? the caps at present look like a middle of the seeding team at the minimum anyway. that's not good enough?

at this point wouldn't a caps fan not trust a top seeding? the caps historically choke on a good seeding.

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12-16-2013, 09:43 AM
  #448
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I think we have had several examples of 7 or 8 seeds making the finals in recent seasons, have we not? its not one. I can remember the flyers and the kings off the top of my head. is there another?

why are we talking about this anyway? the caps at present look like a middle of the seeding team at the minimum anyway. that's not good enough?

at this point wouldn't a caps fan not trust a top seeding? the caps historically choke on a good seeding.
It's the ROW's i'm more worried about. Caps have 10 and there are 7 teams in the league with 19 or more already.

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12-16-2013, 09:47 AM
  #449
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I think we have had several examples of 7 or 8 seeds making the finals in recent seasons, have we not? its not one. I can remember the flyers and the kings off the top of my head. is there another?
why are we talking about this anyway? the caps at present look like a middle of the seeding team at the minimum anyway. that's not good enough?

at this point wouldn't a caps fan not trust a top seeding? the caps historically choke on a good seeding.
Post lockout there was Edmonton too back in 05-06.

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12-16-2013, 10:39 AM
  #450
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It's the ROW's i'm more worried about. Caps have 10 and there are 7 teams in the league with 19 or more already.
Calgary has 11.

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