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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the equally confused thread) x2

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03-27-2013, 02:54 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Maybe this is neither here nor there, but in the article I posted a fwe pages back about Oates putting in the Bourque Rule for Green, it was mentioned that he wasn't supposed to come in beyond the tops of the circles.

There were a few plays last night where Green clearly pulled up and missed a chance at a GOOD shot in a high scoring area, or just forced a flip of the puck toward a covered teammate, seemingly because he was trying to adhere to this rule.

This is not Mike Green's value, imo. It seems like a waste of his abilities.
Absolutely agree it's a waste. After watching him last night I thought to myself "are the coaches telling him to simply be the pivot man at the point, and to defer his shot?"? Sure seems that way based on his play because I have to assume they would coach him up to correct it if he wasn't doing as directed.

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03-27-2013, 02:54 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Mike Green has 17 points in his most recent 386:40 of pp time. Defend that.

I'd rather sign Scuderi for $5 million and watch him put up 12 points a season than watch Green score 12 in 30 games.
I would punch a baby to get Scuderi. Guy always seems to come through with a big play exactly when you need it most.

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03-27-2013, 02:55 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Mike Green has a pretty terrible slapshot if that's what you're referencing. We shouldn't expect him to get it off or score from it. He has a world class wrist shot but everyone knows it and they guard the backdoor. He doesn't shoot more because he's bad at it AND he hasn't bothered to improve at it.
Development, development, development.


George McPhee.....end of story.

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03-27-2013, 02:56 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Absolutely agree it's a waste. After watching him last night I thought to myself "are the coaches telling him to simply be the pivot man at the point, and to defer his shot?"? Sure seems that way based on his play because I have to assume they would coach him up to correct it if he wasn't doing as directed.
I would guess there's an adjustment period to implementing the "Bourque Rule". Hopefully it's short and he can still be effective.

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03-27-2013, 02:58 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
I would punch a baby to get Scuderi. Guy always seems to come through with a big play exactly when you need it most.
Well we won't get him, so lay off the infants. The logic being that we already have a top pairing guy. Sigh.

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03-27-2013, 03:08 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Nothing like oversimplifying the human psyche....

Medicine after all is NOT an exact science. Your "sack up" approach might fit for some people, but for others it would probably fail miserably.
Obviously some people are stronger / more secure than others, but everyone has conditions under which they can "sack up." Certain circumstances bring out the best in people, while others bring out the worst. A huge part of "mental toughness," in my opinion, is conditioning yourself psychologically so you can elicit those "best" qualities without the presence of perfect external circumstances.

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03-27-2013, 03:08 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Well we won't get him, so lay off the infants. The logic being that we already have a top pairing guy. Sigh.
"We'll try our own guys".....

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03-27-2013, 03:14 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Nothing like oversimplifying the human psyche....

Medicine after all is NOT an exact science. Your "sack up" approach might fit for some people, but for others it would probably fail miserably.
This is not medicine or oversimiplification. This is behavioral psychology and neuroscience. Studies repeatedly confirm what I'm saying, in addition to my own anecdotal experience and the testimony of nearly every high level professional athlete.

I'm not saying everyone can do it. Those for whom it would "fail miserably" are probably not cut out for the high pressure world of pro sports. Unless they can change the way they manage their own brains. We are not helpless.

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03-27-2013, 03:26 PM
  #159
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Psychology is NOT an exact science. Do the research.


I'd love to hear more about this fabled "testimony of nearly EVERY HIGH LEVEL ATHLETE" though....



On the topic of athletes needing psychological assistance, I think many of the Caps are in desperate need. Ovechkin being the primary one...So many mentally (and in some cases physically) broken players on one roster. Speaks to the environment in which they were developed and work in.


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 03-27-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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03-27-2013, 03:31 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Psychology is NOT an exact science. Do the research.


I'd love to hear more about this fabled "testimony of nearly EVERY HIGH LEVEL ATHLETE" though....
I've done plenty of research. What are you claiming is so inexact about what I said?

edit: find me ONE single high level athlete who says that letting criticism get to you is good for your game. One.


Last edited by g00n: 03-27-2013 at 03:38 PM.
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03-27-2013, 03:38 PM
  #161
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Google is your friend, have at it.

Your "Sack up" approach simply wouldn't work for everyone.

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03-27-2013, 03:40 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Google is your friend, have at it.
So in other words, you got nuthin.

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03-27-2013, 03:41 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
I would punch a baby to get Scuderi. Guy always seems to come through with a big play exactly when you need it most.

That's a terrible metaphor, fyi.

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03-27-2013, 03:41 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
I've done plenty of research. What are you claiming is so inexact about what I said?

edit: find me ONE single high level athlete who says that letting criticism get to you is good for your game. One.
Find me one instance where I suggested that. Just admit that your approach wouldn't work for everyone and move on.

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03-27-2013, 03:42 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
So in other words, you got nuthin.
You're the one with the outlandish "sack up" suggestion, not me. I don't need to prove what's accepted by the scientific community. Psychology isn't an exact science. Look it up.

I won't do your homework for you.

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03-27-2013, 03:44 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Your "Sack up" approach simply wouldn't work for everyone.
And?

You either cut it mentally at the top levels, or you don't. Already said that.

The whole point of this topic is people blaming fans for what happens on the ice. What you're telling me is that some professional athletes are incapable of getting over what the fans say and do. And I'm telling you the fault is not with the fans, it's with the athletes who haven't learned how to manage their minds in order to increase their performance.

If someone can't do it, and he's tried all the sports psyche techniques, and he needs meds, that's another thing. That's still dealing with the problem, and not blaming the fans.

See??

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03-27-2013, 03:45 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
You're the one with the outlandish "sack up" suggestion, not me. I don't need to prove what's accepted by the scientific community. Psychology isn't an exact science. Look it up.

I won't do your homework for you.
Homework is for college know-it-alls anyway.

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03-27-2013, 03:45 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
You're the one with the outlandish "sack up" suggestion, not me. I don't need to prove what's accepted by the scientific community. Psychology isn't an exact science. Look it up.

I won't do your homework for you.
You haven't backed up a single word you've posted with any facts or science. I guarantee I've studied psychology longer than you, and probably longer than you've been alive.

And you still haven't pointed out what's the inexact scientific part about what I'm saying. There is no disputing what I'm telling you because these are known principles in sports psychology and neuroscience.

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03-27-2013, 03:48 PM
  #169
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People blaming fans? Who's blaming the fan for in ice actions? I merely suggested that fans can be too hard on players. It sinks in when you hear fans bashing Green, yet everyone "in the game" that he works with praises him to no end. Are they all living in a fantasy world or just BS'ing everyone for the fun of it?

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03-27-2013, 03:50 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
You haven't backed up a single word you've posted with any facts or science. I guarantee I've studied psychology longer than you, and probably longer than you've been alive.
Then you should probably back up these extensive studies you've done. First assignment. Find me a recognized source that claims Psychology is an exact science. I won't hold my breath to be safe....


I don't need to back anything up as I wasn't the one making silly generalizations about how the mind of the pro athlete works.

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03-27-2013, 03:57 PM
  #171
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Psychology may not be an "exact science," by the way, but there are "exact" truths about the human mind/human psychology. What makes psychology an inexact science is that people are ****** practitioners of it, but that doesn't mean those truths aren't there to be understood, and it doesn't mean anyone making an argument based on psychology is wrong.

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03-27-2013, 03:57 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Then you should probably back up these extensive studies you've done. First assignment. Find me a recognized source that claims Psychology is an exact science. I won't hold my breath to be safe....


I don't need to back anything up as I wasn't the one making silly generalizations about how the mind of the pro athlete works.

You're making silly generalizations about "psychology is not an exact science" as if that has anything to do with what I said.

Do you really want my decades worth of reading materials and college transcripts and my own professional and athletic credentials before you'll admit that being a hypersensitive wimp is bad for performance in professional athletics?

I'm the one who has to google some generic idea of "psychology is not an exact science" when the variations from individual to individual and differing treatment efficacies have zilch to do with my point?

Oh right, this is a meaningless opinion battle on some internet message board. Nevermind.

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03-27-2013, 03:59 PM
  #173
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How is this even an argument? Successful players don't let things get to them. Look at Semin for instance. Called every name in the book for years on end by every idiot out there, indisputably biggest scapegoat in the league, potentially on a historic level, yet he just shrugged it off every single time and never said a bleeding word. If Greenie had that kind of mental fortitude (and commitment to defense but that's a whole other story) he'd be twice the player he is and things like yesterday would not happen.

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03-27-2013, 04:02 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
Psychology may not be an "exact science," by the way, but there are "exact" truths about the human mind/human psychology. What makes psychology an inexact science is that people are ****** practitioners of it, but that doesn't mean those truths aren't there to be understood, and it doesn't mean anyone making an argument based on psychology is wrong.
This.

Neuroplasticity is real. We all have the ability to change WAY more about our minds and perceptions than we're led to believe. And there are measurable constants to go along with some of the mysteries.

So back to the point, people should NEVER blame the fans for the athlete's failure to deal with a known hazard of the occupation. In this case, fan taunting or media scrutiny. The testimonials to the need to overcome these things are so common it's not worth citing.

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03-27-2013, 04:18 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Your "sack up" approach might fit for some people, but for others it would probably fail miserably.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that wasn't an actual proposed thesis.

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