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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the equally confused thread) x2

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Old
03-27-2013, 04:30 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that wasn't an actual proposed thesis.
Further to the above, yes, it is time to trade Mike Green.

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03-27-2013, 05:11 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Don't take my post as absolving Green of this, I was simply pointing out that the fans are often too critical when by all appearances, anyone "in the game" sings a different song with regards to Green when you hear him discussed.

Seems like you think he's just a bad player and will never develop even in a healthy environment. I think that's far from a foregone conclusion.
fans being critical comes with being a pro.....as for "in the game"...I see how other teams play against 52.....they go at him in an attempt to take away his strength (open ice skating) and exploit his weakness (play along the boards in the D zone). If he can develop a quick read/decision making habit, like Murphy did, he can be a good player.

I dont think he is bad...Ozolnish had nice career. I dont see him putting up the same kind of numbers again, which is what everyone seems to be grasping for. They pine for the days of him toe-dragging around someone at center ice (when 2 guys were open) and make a highlight style play in a December hockey game.....what a team they were

I cant understand how anyone thinks he is good defensively. Im not saying he sucks at it but....his play in front of the net is what, average?

He is strong on his skates but along the boards his man generally makes the play.....even if its just keeping play alive....He doesnt make enough plays along the boards where he is gaining possession or getting it to someone who can.....the typical things you see from a good defensive player. He used to play with some bite to his game but I can understand not looking for the big hit with all his injuries.

He still attempts slick little stick moves when he shouldnt (ive been complaining about this since mike richards stood him up and scored on the turnover in the playoffs, their first playoff run)

He's not especially good at picking up guys when the play breaks down.

When he gets the puck on his stick, without a lot of pressure he is good at skating it out of the zone.

all that added up doesnt equal "good"....but of course these are just my thoughts

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03-27-2013, 05:33 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I love it...Green has a few incredible offensive years and you say he's "not that unique", and "somewhat unique". It's easier to have people accept your position in a debate when you at least APPEAR to be somewhat unbiased. You come across as a Green basher by simply dismissing his best seasons so casually and focusing on his worst with fine tuned precision.
When 52 was at his best....he looked to me like a potential Brian Leetch. I thought their styles were extremely similar, especially in their lateral skating/stickhandling abilities....so no, by definition I didnt find him unique. I thought there was a very good example of his style of play. I found him somewhat unique because of his tendency to lay out some really big hits

He is neither of these players now so it should go without saying I dont find him unique....at least in any significant ways. If you think that player is still in him, thats fine. Im less sure. This may sound harsh and i fully expect your response to be at me and not the point but....I suspect he isnt the brightest guy, not saying he dumb but just doesnt strike me as the sharpest guy. His play on the ice, to me further supports that because....to my eyes, some of his mistakes are the same ones he's been making all along. Not talking about the critical stuff all the time just in general. There are times where you want to grab him by the ear...at this point in his career. This cant all be brought down on his partner, or whatever the other reasons are.

I dont hate the guy and it would be great if he stays healthy, gets his confidence/swagger back.....and starts putting up points...

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03-27-2013, 05:37 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Maybe this is neither here nor there, but in the article I posted a fwe pages back about Oates putting in the Bourque Rule for Green, it was mentioned that he wasn't supposed to come in beyond the tops of the circles.

There were a few plays last night where Green clearly pulled up and missed a chance at a GOOD shot in a high scoring area, or just forced a flip of the puck toward a covered teammate, seemingly because he was trying to adhere to this rule.

This is not Mike Green's value, imo. It seems like a waste of his abilities.


He was in deeper than that last night so either he didnt listen or its hot air

EDIT: or situational


Last edited by Mothra: 03-27-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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03-27-2013, 05:38 PM
  #180
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It was fairly clear that both Semin and Green had question marks, high trade value and uncertain futures in DC some time ago.

That GMGM failed to get anything for Semin and is now positioned to get little or nothing for Green embodies his failure as GM.

He'd rather lose a player than risk putting his name on a bad deal. He'd rather make the playoffs every year than risk a deadline deal with his stamp on it.

This bottom line, job security first, chicken**** manner of team building won't get them far.

For years now he's turned multiple first round pics into a boom\bust draft record rather than deal to put them over the top. Meanwhile GMs for Cup winners get the most out of their picks and trade extra assets high and/or skillfully decide which UFAs to overpay.

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03-27-2013, 05:42 PM
  #181
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For me MG's injuries is the most concerning. Before the last groin flare up he was clearly the best dman of the bunch. And with the inconsistency of the younger dmen this season he simply has more value to the capitals then any other team that was a potential trade partner.

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03-27-2013, 05:42 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
He was in deeper than that last night so either he didnt listen or its hot air
I noticed a few times he ignored the rule, and the times I described where he stuck to it. On the times he obeyed it he looked conflicted. I would say for the other times he didn't listen.

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03-27-2013, 05:55 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
For me MG's injuries is the most concerning. Before the last groin flare up he was clearly the best dman of the bunch. And with the inconsistency of the younger dmen this season he simply has more value to the capitals then any other team that was a potential trade partner.
Funny that I take the same data and make the exact opposite conclusion. Green has less value to the Caps than any return -even nothing. Because as long as he's here, McPhee will not upgrade the D. And as long as he's here, he's not going to stay healthy. So we're screwed.

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03-27-2013, 06:30 PM
  #184
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I think Green would be more much effective in his new D first approach if he would hit. He used to throw monster hits every year. Now, I expect 0, and so do the opposition forwards. I think he knows his body can't hack it. I sometimes wonder if he can even unload full slappers, reaffirmed after last night. Even when seemingly at full health.

Alzner has been a beast of late. Even Sarge has been more physical than Green.

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Old
03-27-2013, 06:52 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
In the endless quest to find Green a 1LD, I often think of Seidenberg as a candidate George missed out on. More than once.

Man o man, George must have been a little chronic staterbator during the Sarge Plus Fiddy / Norris candidacy run. Wow have they fallen. That copy the Detroit Model - play it clean beat them with goals and goals alone... it all came crashing down to reality real quick. It's like mom walked into the room.

Doesn't anyone ****ing knock anymore?


We some nasty on the blue to try with Green. The only significant run Green got with a real Nasty was Erskine, for about 10 games.

Right in the middle of Green's goal scoring streak IIRC.
The "Detroit" model is to beat them with goals and goals alone?


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03-27-2013, 06:55 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
For me MG's injuries is the most concerning. Before the last groin flare up he was clearly the best dman of the bunch. And with the inconsistency of the younger dmen this season he simply has more value to the capitals then any other team that was a potential trade partner.
To me, that's like saying that Moe is 'the' most intelligent Stooge.

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03-27-2013, 07:11 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
fans being critical comes with being a pro.....as for "in the game"...I see how other teams play against 52.....they go at him in an attempt to take away his strength (open ice skating) and exploit his weakness (play along the boards in the D zone). If he can develop a quick read/decision making habit, like Murphy did, he can be a good player.

I dont think he is bad...Ozolnish had nice career. I dont see him putting up the same kind of numbers again, which is what everyone seems to be grasping for. They pine for the days of him toe-dragging around someone at center ice (when 2 guys were open) and make a highlight style play in a December hockey game.....what a team they were

I cant understand how anyone thinks he is good defensively. Im not saying he sucks at it but....his play in front of the net is what, average?

He is strong on his skates but along the boards his man generally makes the play.....even if its just keeping play alive....He doesnt make enough plays along the boards where he is gaining possession or getting it to someone who can.....the typical things you see from a good defensive player. He used to play with some bite to his game but I can understand not looking for the big hit with all his injuries.

He still attempts slick little stick moves when he shouldnt (ive been complaining about this since mike richards stood him up and scored on the turnover in the playoffs, their first playoff run)

He's not especially good at picking up guys when the play breaks down.

When he gets the puck on his stick, without a lot of pressure he is good at skating it out of the zone.

all that added up doesnt equal "good"....but of course these are just my thoughts
Good post!

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03-27-2013, 07:14 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
It was fairly clear that both Semin and Green had question marks, high trade value and uncertain futures in DC some time ago.

That GMGM failed to get anything for Semin and is now positioned to get little or nothing for Green embodies his failure as GM.

He'd rather lose a player than risk putting his name on a bad deal. He'd rather make the playoffs every year than risk a deadline deal with his stamp on it.

This bottom line, job security first, chicken**** manner of team building won't get them far.

For years now he's turned multiple first round pics into a boom\bust draft record rather than deal to put them over the top. Meanwhile GMs for Cup winners get the most out of their picks and trade extra assets high and/or skillfully decide which UFAs to overpay.
What I underlined speaks well to one of GMGM's biggest problems as a manager. Good post!

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03-27-2013, 07:15 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Funny that I take the same data and make the exact opposite conclusion. Green has less value to the Caps than any return -even nothing. Because as long as he's here, McPhee will not upgrade the D. And as long as he's here, he's not going to stay healthy. So we're screwed.
Differing opinions on the internets is just how it goes.

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03-27-2013, 07:16 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
Differing opinions on the internets is just how it goes.
I think we can both agree that it blows not having a new episode of the Americans tonight.

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03-27-2013, 07:56 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
The "Detroit" model is to beat them with goals and goals alone?

Why not enlighten us then.

I thought they were the first team to go sans a goon year after year, that they won cups by bringing a clean game. I must be mistaken. Name their goons from the past 10 years.

I didn't know they played it dirty but defer to you who obviously knows that team inside out.

Since its not Detroit, which team if any do you think Ted and George decided would be a good team to try and emulate post lockout?

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03-27-2013, 08:12 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
It was fairly clear that both Semin and Green had question marks, high trade value and uncertain futures in DC some time ago.

That GMGM failed to get anything for Semin and is now positioned to get little or nothing for Green embodies his failure as GM.

He'd rather lose a player than risk putting his name on a bad deal. He'd rather make the playoffs every year than risk a deadline deal with his stamp on it.

This bottom line, job security first, chicken**** manner of team building won't get them far.

For years now he's turned multiple first round pics into a boom\bust draft record rather than deal to put them over the top. Meanwhile GMs for Cup winners get the most out of their picks and trade extra assets high and/or skillfully decide which UFAs to overpay.
Too bad Ted is with him

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03-27-2013, 08:24 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
Differing opinions on the internets is just how it goes.
We're just lucky we got one of yours today. I feel like it's been months. We need you moderating this ****show.

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03-27-2013, 08:30 PM
  #194
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Wrong thread, sorry.

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03-27-2013, 09:00 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
We're just lucky we got one of yours today. I feel like it's been months. We need you moderating this ****show.
Just a deux line one or so . Generally a poster has already posted an opinion that I have on the subject. Only rarely attempt to break out the 'This' quote, heh.

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03-27-2013, 09:02 PM
  #196
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To me, that's like saying that Moe is 'the' most intelligent Stooge.
Hey, what have you got against the stooges

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03-27-2013, 09:30 PM
  #197
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I don't like to criticize Green—he has played hard and battled through injuries. An NHL defenseman who actually tries to hit and score is alright in my book.

I only criticize the management for not trading Green. It was very stupid to a) sign him for that big money and term and b) expect Green to be the Caps #1D man after witnessing his injuries and less-than-superstar play since the Habs series.

Can we get a GM in here who can build a championship hockey team???????

That's the burning question. Except its not burning for Ted.

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Old
03-27-2013, 10:19 PM
  #198
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I think we can both agree that it blows not having a new episode of the Americans tonight.
That show is the definition of "almost."

It should be so awesome, but it's just... not.

Mostly it's the writing, which leaves a lot to be desired. It's like the dialogue periodically jumps out and says "hey look at me! my writer phoned it in today!"

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03-28-2013, 12:58 AM
  #199
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moving..


Last edited by Blades of steel: 03-28-2013 at 12:59 AM. Reason: wrong section
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03-28-2013, 01:06 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
I noticed a few times he ignored the rule, and the times I described where he stuck to it. On the times he obeyed it he looked conflicted. I would say for the other times he didn't listen.
He is weeks behind his teammates in learning this system, so this makes perfect sense.

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