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Why can't we score, is it hockey gods?

View Poll Results: Choose multiples (offense not complete game)
Bad luck (hockey gods and refs) 35 60.34%
Poor line management (Krueger) 10 17.24%
Training (Krueger but planned) 5 8.62%
Management (offensive players are no good) 9 15.52%
Players (don't care enough, used to losing, stress, hurt) 14 24.14%
Other reasons 18 31.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-24-2013, 01:40 PM
  #1
fuswald
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Why can't we score, is it hockey gods?

Duplicate. Doh.


Last edited by fuswald: 02-24-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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02-24-2013, 01:44 PM
  #2
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Why can't we score, is it hockey gods?

Why with the extreme offensive talent on the Oilers can we barely score more than 1 goal when everybody knows it takes 3 goals to win most games.
  1. Bad luck
  2. Poor line management
  3. Training
  4. Management
  5. Players
  6. Other

Bad luck and it keeps on coming combined with the NHL is against us? (jinx, refs)

Poor lineup arrangement? (Kruegers fault)

Part of the coaches teaching the team to be a complete team? (no fault, training)

Players suck, bad choices by manegement? (talking scorers not overall) (manegements fault)

Players fault. Making big bucks now and have less compete? Used to losing? Stress? Hurt?

Other


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02-24-2013, 01:46 PM
  #3
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It's the team not going to win much when you rely on a bunch of young 20 year olds to carry the team and score the majority of the goals.

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02-24-2013, 01:46 PM
  #4
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Poor line management.

Lines havent been working since day 1, and yet Krueger still puts the same lines out every single time.

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02-24-2013, 01:48 PM
  #5
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goals come in bunches....they'll get that freewheeling game when everything goes in, and it will snowball.
at least I hope...

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02-24-2013, 01:48 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuswald View Post
Why with the extreme offensive talent on the Oilers can we barely score more than 1 goal when everybody knows it takes 3 goals to win most games.
  1. Bad luck
  2. Poor line management
  3. Training
  4. Management
  5. Players
  6. All

Bad luck and it keeps on coming combined with the NHL is against us? (jinx, refs)

Poor lineup arrangement? (Kruegers fault)

Part of the coaches teaching the team to be a complete team? (no fault, training)

Players suck, bad choices by manegement? (talking scorers not overall) (manegements fault)

Players fault. Making big bucks now and have less compete?

All the above
I would say that the biggest thing has been this teams lack of driving the net for one. We haven't scored many gritty garbage goals this year. More often than not, we have players looking for the pretty goal, or the pretty pass. Speaking of the pretty pass, I can't count how many shot opportunities have been passed up for a difficult pass (that is rarely completed.) The games we've won are where we drive the net and get pucks on goal. It's not rocket science.

Hall, Eberle and RNH probably got away with a lot of pretty stuff in the AHL. The issue has been simplifying their game in the NHL.

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02-24-2013, 01:48 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyakasha View Post
goals come in bunches....they'll get that freewheeling game when everything goes in, and it will snowball.
at least I hope...
We already had a few games like that, didn't help.

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02-24-2013, 01:59 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
Hall, Eberle and RNH probably got away with a lot of pretty stuff in the AHL. The issue has been simplifying their game in the NHL.
They scored a lot more last year.

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02-24-2013, 02:13 PM
  #9
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I vote other, losing Sutton and Gilbert has left our d even more offensively inept then it has been the last 2 years. Tambo obviously didn't plan on Whitney completely crapping the bed.

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02-24-2013, 02:14 PM
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i voted bad luck, because that is the correct answer.... the kids, who do most of our scoring, are all in funks.... it's not like they aren't generating chances, or getting scoring opportunities (hell, RNH gets 3 glorious chances/game that he misses on) and its not like they aren't capable of scoring at a higher rate (look at their career shooting% for proof of this).... they simply aren't scoring at a good clip, with something like a 5% combined shooting%

if the kids were even having an "average year" and shooting at a 10% clip, we aren't even having this conversation... we'd have 10 more goals and 2-3 more wins on the season... the kids didn't all regress at the same time, they are just all going through a scoring slump at the same time... your best players do 60% of a team's scoring, and our best players are all in a huge funk right now... it really is that simple

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:20 PM
  #11
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I think it's destiny we become on the most hated teams in the league by finishing 9th in the West and then winning the Draft Lottery.

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02-24-2013, 02:31 PM
  #12
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The curse of Chris Pronger. Duh.

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02-24-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Empros View Post
I think it's destiny we become on the most hated teams in the league by finishing 9th in the West and then winning the Draft Lottery.
Very nice. Don't see how it fits here but very nice. Tambolini is awesome at the luck of the draw.

But will we then make the playoffs year after year.

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02-24-2013, 02:39 PM
  #14
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We don't score garbage goals. Those SHOULD make up a good percentage of the goals a team scores but we don't get many.

When was the last time we scored off a rebound or a scramble in front of the net?

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02-24-2013, 02:45 PM
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By my eye it's because the players are passing the puck out of the good shooting zones.

They are not consistently shooting the puck enough. Pucks to the net.

I'd like to see them get a minimum of 40 shots per game and score a few mucking it up around the crease during the scrambles for the rebounds.

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02-24-2013, 02:50 PM
  #16
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Inconsistent play as well as not shooting enough.

Tough to score when you're fishing the puck out of your own end as well.

We've seen what they can do when they get going (Avs), problem is there's less of them and more of the Kings, Wild, Coyotes, etc....

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02-24-2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyakasha View Post
goals come in bunches....they'll get that freewheeling game when everything goes in, and it will snowball.
at least I hope...
I feel the same way. The boys are just gripping the sticks a little too tight right now. Their confidence is low. They're getting chances, but they just can't seem to bury them. Once they start going in and their confidence increases I think it will snowball as well.

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02-24-2013, 02:57 PM
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None of the above. In this league, there's more than one way to skin a cat. And if you're stubborn enough to only try to do it one way, all the other teams will figure you out and shut you down. Enough of the soft perimeter nonsense. Start going into the dirty areas and shoot the puck there. The ugly goals and the pretty goals will start coming then. When the confidence wanes, the game has to be simplified. The coaching staff has been trying to hammer that into their young, thick heads. The players are saying the right things, but not doing them yet, or at least enough yet. It's awful hard to break old habits, but this group is still learning.

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02-24-2013, 03:11 PM
  #19
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We're trying to be too cute with it. It's simple. Get pucks in deep, and trow everything you can on net, and good things will happen

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02-24-2013, 03:36 PM
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The system we use is called an adjusted hybrid by the NHS It is a system designed to let teams with an average skillsets be competative, never dominant but always competative, in a nutshell it is an offensive trap.The system simply uses set defensive zone fastbreak exit plays blended with controlled transitional creative plays in the o-zone.

This system is now becoming mainstream in an evolutionary manner, there is nothing out there that blends the fastbreak and the transition better than this system. The Oilers picked the best one they could find, however it has several fatal flaws that are easily exposed. NHL teams now fully understand how to put the adjusted hybrid into a system checkmate which is really just activating the trap facet of the system, so now we are seeing teams using this system in 1-1 and 2-1 games with regularity, teams that used to create a lot of offense using this system cant do it today. Its not just us.

The systems reliance on a set defensive schematic requires that all players provide a baseline defensive responsibility at all times, this maintains the integrity of the entire system, the defense is set and the offense is pliable, this equates to all skill players taking their superman capes off for a minimum of 50% of the game and in games where there is a system checkmate up to 90% of the time. This means our system negates our own skillset advantage and exposes each and every one of our own players weaknesses as they lower their creativity levels as required{forced}. This is why we are seeing such a huge adjustment for our 1st line they are being asked to be luncbucket guys to much to maintain system integrity consistantly and it is hurting their games, if we wanted the lunchbucket brigade we should have brought them in instead of offensive studs. We cant have our cake and eat it to. Hall has adjusted his game better than his linemates which immediatly shows us how fast he recognises dynamics, he is more like The Moose than people think, he needs to play with Gagner and Yakupov once in a while as he will soak up Gagners vison on the ice quickly. he is already learning to see the ice like Nuge, Taylor is like a chameleon in that his learning style is reflective of his linemates and changes with them, interesting.

The adjusted hybrid because of its unique blend of set plays and creative transitions requires a large volume of data retention and exchange between the coaches and players in realtime, naturally veterans are more able to handle this data flow consistantly and execute system duties. So by its nature our system gravitates towards veteran mindsets that will make fewer errors, this means we will eventually as we dial the system in be sitting many of our rookies. If we dont sit players who cant handle the adjustments we will not dial the system inproperly.


We need to better understand this system and adjust our expectations to its performance parameters, or we need to seek out and implement a new and more offensively catalysed system of play. There are ways to simplify the defensive adjustments that paralyse our neutral zone transition capability which is where we most effectively catalyse our offense from when we are winning. But we arent using them quickly enough, so one one hand we havent yet consistantly seen this adjusted hybrid produce competative results so we need to be patient and on the other hand its such a complicated system with such a low ceiling resultswise that it is almost a tossup between this offensive trap and a defensive trap, and this is a horrifying thought because the trap is not offensive hockey no matter how you disguise it.

At the end of the day this is a system compatability issue, the fans havent been lied to just misrepresented to, we will be using a "wide open offensive fastbreak style" as we were told all right but it will be catalysed out of a trapping offensive system which will not allow dominating scoring results, and we werent exactly told this.

Ralph and the boys are doing as well as anyone has historiclly done here with this rattle-trap system of play, maybe we can bubble-gum and duct-tape it to the playoffs and do some damage like Mac-T did. Ralph Krueger has more to add to this system but he is also restricted by the systems performance parameters and sensitive nature, any small change he wants to make requires a complicated series of paralell re-adjustments systemwise and this is very labor intensive and hard on both players and coaches and ultimately results.

I hate stats but they do have specific demonstrative uses, the Oilers record of results over the last 15 years shows a distinct evolution into an adjusted hybrid or an offensively catalysed trapping team. This is the State of Affairs as i see it right now. If we want to take another step forward we need to finish setting our foot down and get a feel for where we are right now. Understanding what we have and are using systemwise is a start in this direction. Pointing fingers at management and coaches and players might feel good but is regressive and counterproductive. It isnt the Human factor killing us here, it is the systems performance parameters and their built in inconsistancys.

How much luckier could we have gotten, all we need to do is address the systems consistancy , our understanding of it, and our expectations and we will be OK. None of these are personell issues, we just need better communication.

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02-24-2013, 03:45 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMedicine View Post
The system we use is called an adjusted hybrid by the NHS It is a system designed to let teams with an average skillsets be competative, never dominant but always competative, in a nutshell it is an offensive trap.The system simply uses set defensive zone fastbreak exit plays blended with controlled transitional creative plays in the o-zone.

This system is now becoming mainstream in an evolutionary manner, there is nothing out there that blends the fastbreak and the transition better than this system. The Oilers picked the best one they could find, however it has several fatal flaws that are easily exposed. NHL teams now fully understand how to put the adjusted hybrid into a system checkmate which is really just activating the trap facet of the system, so now we are seeing teams using this system in 1-1 and 2-1 games with regularity, teams that used to create a lot of offense using this system cant do it today. Its not just us.

The systems reliance on a set defensive schematic requires that all players provide a baseline defensive responsibility at all times, this maintains the integrity of the entire system, the defense is set and the offense is pliable, this equates to all skill players taking their superman capes off for a minimum of 50% of the game and in games where there is a system checkmate up to 90% of the time. This means our system negates our own skillset advantage and exposes each and every one of our own players weaknesses as they lower their creativity levels as required{forced}. This is why we are seeing such a huge adjustment for our 1st line they are being asked to be luncbucket guys to much to maintain system integrity consistantly and it is hurting their games, if we wanted the lunchbucket brigade we should have brought them in instead of offensive studs. We cant have our cake and eat it to. Hall has adjusted his game better than his linemates which immediatly shows us how fast he recognises dynamics, he is more like The Moose than people think, he needs to play with Gagner and Yakupov once in a while as he will soak up Gagners vison on the ice quickly. he is already learning to see the ice like Nuge, Taylor is like a chameleon in that his learning style is reflective of his linemates and changes with them, interesting.

The adjusted hybrid because of its unique blend of set plays and creative transitions requires a large volume of data retention and exchange between the coaches and players in realtime, naturally veterans are more able to handle this data flow consistantly and execute system duties. So by its nature our system gravitates towards veteran mindsets that will make fewer errors, this means we will eventually as we dial the system in be sitting many of our rookies. If we dont sit players who cant handle the adjustments we will not dial the system inproperly.


We need to better understand this system and adjust our expectations to its performance parameters, or we need to seek out and implement a new and more offensively catalysed system of play. There are ways to simplify the defensive adjustments that paralyse our neutral zone transition capability which is where we most effectively catalyse our offense from when we are winning. But we arent using them quickly enough, so one one hand we havent yet consistantly seen this adjusted hybrid produce competative results so we need to be patient and on the other hand its such a complicated system with such a low ceiling resultswise that it is almost a tossup between this offensive trap and a defensive trap, and this is a horrifying thought because the trap is not offensive hockey no matter how you disguise it.

At the end of the day this is a system compatability issue, the fans havent been lied to just misrepresented to, we will be using a "wide open offensive fastbreak style" as we were told all right but it will be catalysed out of a trapping offensive system which will not allow dominating scoring results, and we werent exactly told this.

Ralph and the boys are doing as well as anyone has historiclly done here with this rattle-trap system of play, maybe we can bubble-gum and duct-tape it to the playoffs and do some damage like Mac-T did. Ralph Krueger has more to add to this system but he is also restricted by the systems performance parameters and sensitive nature, any small change he wants to make requires a complicated series of paralell re-adjustments systemwise and this is very labor intensive and hard on both players and coaches and ultimately results.

I hate stats but they do have specific demonstrative uses, the Oilers record of results over the last 15 years shows a distinct evolution into an adjusted hybrid or an offensively catalysed trapping team. This is the State of Affairs as i see it right now. If we want to take another step forward we need to finish setting our foot down and get a feel for where we are right now. Understanding what we have and are using systemwise is a start in this direction. Pointing fingers at management and coaches and players might feel good but is regressive and counterproductive. It isnt the Human factor killing us here, it is the systems performance parameters and their built in inconsistancys.

How much luckier could we have gotten, all we need to do is address the systems consistancy , our understanding of it, and our expectations and we will be OK. None of these are personell issues, we just need better communication.
wow. that's quite a breakdown.

also, I'd think about changing the password on your computer. It may be too obvious.

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02-24-2013, 03:50 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMedicine View Post
The system we use is called an adjusted hybrid by the NHS It is a system designed to let teams with an average skillsets be competative, never dominant but always competative, in a nutshell it is an offensive trap.The system simply uses set defensive zone fastbreak exit plays blended with controlled transitional creative plays in the o-zone.

This system is now becoming mainstream in an evolutionary manner, there is nothing out there that blends the fastbreak and the transition better than this system. The Oilers picked the best one they could find, however it has several fatal flaws that are easily exposed. NHL teams now fully understand how to put the adjusted hybrid into a system checkmate which is really just activating the trap facet of the system, so now we are seeing teams using this system in 1-1 and 2-1 games with regularity, teams that used to create a lot of offense using this system cant do it today. Its not just us.

The systems reliance on a set defensive schematic requires that all players provide a baseline defensive responsibility at all times, this maintains the integrity of the entire system, the defense is set and the offense is pliable, this equates to all skill players taking their superman capes off for a minimum of 50% of the game and in games where there is a system checkmate up to 90% of the time. This means our system negates our own skillset advantage and exposes each and every one of our own players weaknesses as they lower their creativity levels as required{forced}. This is why we are seeing such a huge adjustment for our 1st line they are being asked to be luncbucket guys to much to maintain system integrity consistantly and it is hurting their games, if we wanted the lunchbucket brigade we should have brought them in instead of offensive studs. We cant have our cake and eat it to. Hall has adjusted his game better than his linemates which immediatly shows us how fast he recognises dynamics, he is more like The Moose than people think, he needs to play with Gagner and Yakupov once in a while as he will soak up Gagners vison on the ice quickly. he is already learning to see the ice like Nuge, Taylor is like a chameleon in that his learning style is reflective of his linemates and changes with them, interesting.

The adjusted hybrid because of its unique blend of set plays and creative transitions requires a large volume of data retention and exchange between the coaches and players in realtime, naturally veterans are more able to handle this data flow consistantly and execute system duties. So by its nature our system gravitates towards veteran mindsets that will make fewer errors, this means we will eventually as we dial the system in be sitting many of our rookies. If we dont sit players who cant handle the adjustments we will not dial the system inproperly.


We need to better understand this system and adjust our expectations to its performance parameters, or we need to seek out and implement a new and more offensively catalysed system of play. There are ways to simplify the defensive adjustments that paralyse our neutral zone transition capability which is where we most effectively catalyse our offense from when we are winning. But we arent using them quickly enough, so one one hand we havent yet consistantly seen this adjusted hybrid produce competative results so we need to be patient and on the other hand its such a complicated system with such a low ceiling resultswise that it is almost a tossup between this offensive trap and a defensive trap, and this is a horrifying thought because the trap is not offensive hockey no matter how you disguise it.

At the end of the day this is a system compatability issue, the fans havent been lied to just misrepresented to, we will be using a "wide open offensive fastbreak style" as we were told all right but it will be catalysed out of a trapping offensive system which will not allow dominating scoring results, and we werent exactly told this.

Ralph and the boys are doing as well as anyone has historiclly done here with this rattle-trap system of play, maybe we can bubble-gum and duct-tape it to the playoffs and do some damage like Mac-T did. Ralph Krueger has more to add to this system but he is also restricted by the systems performance parameters and sensitive nature, any small change he wants to make requires a complicated series of paralell re-adjustments systemwise and this is very labor intensive and hard on both players and coaches and ultimately results.

I hate stats but they do have specific demonstrative uses, the Oilers record of results over the last 15 years shows a distinct evolution into an adjusted hybrid or an offensively catalysed trapping team. This is the State of Affairs as i see it right now. If we want to take another step forward we need to finish setting our foot down and get a feel for where we are right now. Understanding what we have and are using systemwise is a start in this direction. Pointing fingers at management and coaches and players might feel good but is regressive and counterproductive. It isnt the Human factor killing us here, it is the systems performance parameters and their built in inconsistancys.

How much luckier could we have gotten, all we need to do is address the systems consistancy , our understanding of it, and our expectations and we will be OK. None of these are personell issues, we just need better communication.

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Old
02-24-2013, 04:08 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
None of the above. In this league, there's more than one way to skin a cat. And if you're stubborn enough to only try to do it one way, all the other teams will figure you out and shut you down. Enough of the soft perimeter nonsense. Start going into the dirty areas and shoot the puck there. The ugly goals and the pretty goals will start coming then. When the confidence wanes, the game has to be simplified. The coaching staff has been trying to hammer that into their young, thick heads. The players are saying the right things, but not doing them yet, or at least enough yet. It's awful hard to break old habits, but this group is still learning.

I think the system we use has a thick head, and our rookies are bar none all ahead of the maturity and hockey IQ curve.

Its not just our adjusted hybrid that has been figured out, last years playoffs blew the adjusted hybrids strengths and weakness into the mainstream NHL mindset and many more teams now know how to throw they system into a system checkmate and shut down the offense.

You are correct in most of your analysis especially the reference to the "dirty areas" , those are shooting lanes and zones, and if you expand your view a bit you will see how close we both are to the same perspective, I believe we simply need to ask the men to become more like predators, Sharks and Barracuddas and Pirrahnas, pick a darn predator and emulate its behaviours. I am not kidding either, we need these guys cutting in and out of these zones and areas and we need them to sometimes pause in one spot and fake a setplay support move make a d-man react and then dart back into the playaction, we need to hit those areas constantly to spread out defenses and to give opponents much much more to worry about when they try to defend against our system. And not only do we need good shots on net we need second shots as well and need to focus on being in dominant position with our bodies and especially our sticks in the o-zone so we can generate the 2nd shots.

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02-24-2013, 04:29 PM
  #24
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You can only call it bad luck for so long, I'm starting to think it's RK's system.

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02-24-2013, 06:59 PM
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