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Drew Doughty is -10

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:41 PM
  #26
HavlatMach9
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Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
But since it's Doughty this time, it's ok.
You're the first to say it's ok.

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02-11-2013, 05:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
I remember when Karlsson was a -30 (third worst on his team) and the whole board used that to prove he was bad defensively. This was playing in front of the NHL's worst goaltender, Brian Elliott. But since it's Doughty this time, it's ok.
Show me where any of the posters excusing Doughty's play vilified Karlsson for that and you might have a point.

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:46 PM
  #28
KINGS17
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Anyone notice that Drew Doughty and Ryan Suter are pretty much neck and neck in terms of stats so far this season?

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02-11-2013, 05:51 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
That could reflect badly on him though - if he's blowing his coverage, that gives more prime scoring opportunities and would lower a goalie's SV%.
Perhaps if it was that low over the course of an entire season, but in such a small sample size it's more likely that he just has bad luck.

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02-11-2013, 05:54 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Anyone notice that Drew Doughty and Ryan Suter are pretty much neck and neck in terms of stats so far this season?
Solid point. I sadly don't get to see much of LA or MIN but how has Suter looked out there so far Wild fans/ anyone who has seen him?

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02-11-2013, 05:58 PM
  #31
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Kings fan that has actually been watching him play this year. I've got no complaints. If I'm going to ask, "what's wrong with player x?" I've got a bunch of candidates on the Kings I'd put before him.

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02-11-2013, 06:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
The Kings can't buy a goal and he has played an average of around 30 minutes a game. Quick has been shakey/iffy this year (just look at HIS numbers) giving up horrendous goals that shouldn't go in and most NHL goalies should stop. We're missing Mitchell and Greene. Doughty has been strong this year, his numbers lie in this instance.

This should be a thread about Quick, not Doughty IMO.
Might be time to turn the reins over to Bernier eh?

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02-11-2013, 06:11 PM
  #33
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The only negative I see in Doughty's game right now is he came into the season looking to be more physical. I think he is adjusting on when it's ok to go for the hit and when it's best to go after the puck.

He also said he is struggling turning over the puck, making bad decisions.

Add that to filling in minute wise for Mitchell/Green, shaky goaltending and a team that is struggling to make passes and you can see where that would create problems.

I think Quick was forced to play too many games off the bat while trying to figure out his back. Bernier should have started at least a game or 2 by now.

As far the the offense, the Kings haven't had one since Tippett was on the coaching staff. Crawford tried to have one, but he didn't have the players.

That is the downside of choosing size or skill/speed. We have a lot of workers and not a lot of finishers.

Don't get me wrong, the size is great in the playoffs but unless your defense/goaltending is top notice, then you can't expect to flip a switch and start scoring 5/6 goals a game.

This team can still do some damage but unless they wake up soon and stop the "well, we are getting the effort just not the bounces" speeches that Terry Murray left in the coaches desk then this team is in trouble.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:17 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Might be time to turn the reins over to Bernier eh?
he'll be getting his chance tonight, and if he performs really well, wouldn't be suprised if he gets the next start aswell

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02-11-2013, 06:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Anyone notice that Drew Doughty and Ryan Suter are pretty much neck and neck in terms of stats so far this season?
Kind of, I guess.

Suter: 11gp, 0g, 6a, -7, 6PIM
Doughty: 10gp, 0g, 4a, -10, 6PIM

One more game played, two more assists, and +3 in favor of Suter.

Suter's below-average play was mostly attributed to the first few games. Suter's first 6 games he was -5, but in the last 5 games he has only been -2. For a team that is 5-5-1 and is -5 on the season, that's not bad.

I haven't been able to see much of Doughty at all, so I cannot comment on his play, but Suter started off bad and has really improved since.

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02-11-2013, 06:26 PM
  #36
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Alright I went through and watched the goals of 5 games where Doughty was a combined -9. The games against Colorado, Vancouver, Anaheim, Nashville and Detroit. Here are my observations (I'm sure I'll get ripped for these but whatever)

Colorado - Doughty was a -1 but he was on the ice for 2 of the colorado goals
Landeskog goal, the shot by the defensemen was wide and bounced off the board and jumped right on the stick to Landeskog who had an open net, not his fault. He was also on the ice for the PA Parentau goal, which was the same situation as the Landeskog goal, the initial shot came from the defensemen and went wide and hit the board and shot right back to the front of the net where Parentau was, who again had the wide open net. Now Parentau was Doughty's man so you could make the case that he could have tried to knock Parentau down or something, but with a wide open net I can't imagine Doughty could have done much different.

Vancouver Doughty was a -2
Kassian goal, off of a faceoff, a one-timer by the defense, the shot was blocked by Scuderi and then went directly to Kassian who had a wide open net.
Burrows goal - scored on a wrap-around behind the net, Quick was on the wrong side of the post. The argument could be made that Doughty could have tried going after Burrows to prevent him from getting to the front of the net to tap it in.

Anaheim Doughty was a -2
Bonino goal (his 2nd) Doughty lost the race to the puck behind the net and Bonino was able to wrap it around and somehow beat Quick with Doughty hounding Bonino, A very stoppable shot for Quick
Selanne goal - Empty net goal, should need no explanation

Nashville Doughty was a -2
Bourque goal - Him and Scuderi didn't communicate properly to see who would take Wilson who had found a soft spot in the ice in between the top of the circles.
Wilson's first goal of the game - Doughty had his man tied up (Gaustad) in front of the net, not his fault.

Detroit Doughty was a -2
Brunner goal - 2 on 2, Ellerby was on Brunner and forced him to the outside with his shot, a shot that Quick could (should?) have stopped
Ericsson - yes it was noted that his chip off the board went directly to the defensemen, but the NHL network broke it down and Stoll should have been there as Ericsson was his man, and the shot should have been stopped by Quick.

Those were my observations with those 5 games, I would honestly say goals as a result of bad defense by Doughty would be... one, maybe two of them.


Last edited by ouendan1: 02-11-2013 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Ellerby, not Scuderi on the Brunner goal, brainfart.
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Old
02-11-2013, 06:35 PM
  #37
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Doughty's defence is fairly good. His inconsistency comes from his offence not his defence. Even when he was slumping previously his defence was still solid.

People equate lack of offensive production from big $/minute dmen into bad defence.

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02-11-2013, 06:45 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Kind of, I guess.

Suter: 11gp, 0g, 6a, -7, 6PIM
Doughty: 10gp, 0g, 4a, -10, 6PIM

One more game played, two more assists, and +3 in favor of Suter.

Suter's below-average play was mostly attributed to the first few games. Suter's first 6 games he was -5, but in the last 5 games he has only been -2. For a team that is 5-5-1 and is -5 on the season, that's not bad.

I haven't been able to see much of Doughty at all, so I cannot comment on his play, but Suter started off bad and has really improved since.
That's kind of my point. Doughty hasn't been that bad either. Both guys are being asked to take on more responsibility. Suter with a new team, Doughty with Mitchell and Greene out of the lineup.

I think both will adjust, too much hockey sense with each guy for them not to adjust.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:46 PM
  #39
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It's not how you start, It's how you finish.

I'll care once the season is over.

Dissect the whole short season.

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02-11-2013, 06:57 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
I remember when Karlsson was a -30 (third worst on his team) and the whole board used that to prove he was bad defensively. This was playing in front of the NHL's worst goaltender, Brian Elliott. But since it's Doughty this time, it's ok.
Karlsson isn't great defensively...
I doubt he'd even challenge for the selke.

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02-11-2013, 07:08 PM
  #41
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Lol somehow a thread about Doughty is on the verge of becoming another "can Karlsson play defense?" debate. Throw me out of this discussion if you want mods, but you know I'm right.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:13 PM
  #42
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That was it, folks. Now comes the inevitable decline. Not Doubty per se, but the team as a whole won't be as good as that playoff run for a LONG time.


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02-11-2013, 07:15 PM
  #43
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Mediocre defense man who got overrated by a good playoff run.

Fernando Pisani 2.0

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02-11-2013, 07:37 PM
  #44
Choralone
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Originally Posted by SammyTheBull View Post
Mediocre defense man who got overrated by a good playoff run.

Fernando Pisani 2.0


Doughty was drafted 3rd overall, received accolades in the 2010 Olympics, and was a Norris finalist for the 2009-2010 season. If he was "overrated" it's been going on a lot longer than last season's playoffs. (P.S, You're wrong.)

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02-11-2013, 07:42 PM
  #45
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Doughty was drafted 3rd overall, received accolades in the 2010 Olympics, and was a Norris finalist for the 2009-2010 season. If he was "overrated" it's been going on a lot longer than last season's playoffs. (P.S, You're wrong.)
He was a bit overrated early in his career but he's rated just right these days. He deserved the praise he got in the playoffs last year, and he deserves the "he's been just fine" analysis this season. Hasn't been a rock solid stud, but based on what I've seen he hasn't been bad.

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02-11-2013, 07:43 PM
  #46
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He was 2nd overall.

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02-11-2013, 07:44 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SammyTheBull View Post
Mediocre defense man who got overrated by a good playoff run.

Fernando Pisani 2.0
Looks like Sammy The Bull took one too many punches to his equilibrium.

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02-11-2013, 07:45 PM
  #48
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Kings fans, I know +/- is not the best statistic, but I'm curious how you feel his play has been this year.
Not a Kings fan but it is foolishness to hang +/- on a player as evidence of his poor play. +/- is a TEAM stat. It is like blaming me for the crime rate in Edmonton.

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02-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ouendan1 View Post
Alright I went through and watched the goals of 5 games where Doughty was a combined -9. The games against Colorado, Vancouver, Anaheim, Nashville and Detroit. Here are my observations (I'm sure I'll get ripped for these but whatever)

Colorado - Doughty was a -1 but he was on the ice for 2 of the colorado goals
Landeskog goal, the shot by the defensemen was wide and bounced off the board and jumped right on the stick to Landeskog who had an open net, not his fault. He was also on the ice for the PA Parentau goal, which was the same situation as the Landeskog goal, the initial shot came from the defensemen and went wide and hit the board and shot right back to the front of the net where Parentau was, who again had the wide open net. Now Parentau was Doughty's man so you could make the case that he could have tried to knock Parentau down or something, but with a wide open net I can't imagine Doughty could have done much different.

Vancouver Doughty was a -2
Kassian goal, off of a faceoff, a one-timer by the defense, the shot was blocked by Scuderi and then went directly to Kassian who had a wide open net.
Burrows goal - scored on a wrap-around behind the net, Quick was on the wrong side of the post. The argument could be made that Doughty could have tried going after Burrows to prevent him from getting to the front of the net to tap it in.

Anaheim Doughty was a -2
Bonino goal (his 2nd) Doughty lost the race to the puck behind the net and Bonino was able to wrap it around and somehow beat Quick with Doughty hounding Bonino, A very stoppable shot for Quick
Selanne goal - Empty net goal, should need no explanation

Nashville Doughty was a -2
Bourque goal - Him and Scuderi didn't communicate properly to see who would take Wilson who had found a soft spot in the ice in between the top of the circles.
Wilson's first goal of the game - Doughty had his man tied up (Gaustad) in front of the net, not his fault.

Detroit Doughty was a -2
Brunner goal - 2 on 2, Ellerby was on Brunner and forced him to the outside with his shot, a shot that Quick could (should?) have stopped
Ericsson - yes it was noted that his chip off the board went directly to the defensemen, but the NHL network broke it down and Stoll should have been there as Ericsson was his man, and the shot should have been stopped by Quick.

Those were my observations with those 5 games, I would honestly say goals as a result of bad defense by Doughty would be... one, maybe two of them.
Great post!

Can we now bury +/- as the complete crap that it is? It is WORSE than meaningless, it misleads the naive.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #50
XX
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Not a Kings fan but it is foolishness to hang +/- on a player as evidence of his poor play. +/- is a TEAM stat. It is like blaming me for the crime rate in Edmonton.
You can look at differences at +/- within the same team, though, and draw some fairly solid observations. Voynov is a team best +4 while averaging over 20 minutes a night. Doughty is a team worst -10. That's not a difference you can simply explain away by saying "well, it's a team game!" or "but Doughty plays against better competition!"

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