HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Drew Doughty is -10

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-11-2013, 07:54 PM
  #51
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
You can look at differences at +/- within the same team, though, and draw some fairly solid observations. Voynov is a team best +4 while averaging over 20 minutes a night. Doughty is a team worst -10. That's not a difference you can simply explain away by saying "well, it's a team game!" or "but Doughty plays against better competition!"
Not solid at all. You spend the next hour trying to figure out what it means or, like our friend above in the thread go re-watch the games and find it is the defensive partner or goalie skewing the number.

+/- is utter garbage. To use it for anything is to lessen your understanding of the game.

You CANNOT give all players on the ice a + or - for the sins of one or two players. By design +/- was never going to work. It is garbage.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:23 PM
  #52
MsChanandlerBong
The Chan-Chan Man
 
MsChanandlerBong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
+/- is a terrible stat to judge a player on. Those with high toi and checking/defensive responsibilities are at a disadvantage.

MsChanandlerBong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:27 PM
  #53
Telos
Moderator
In Dean We Trust
 
Telos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 26,214
vCash: 3578
Send a message via ICQ to Telos Send a message via AIM to Telos Send a message via MSN to Telos Send a message via Yahoo to Telos
I think every day there will be a new thread about a different Kings player The entire team has horrible stats across the board at the moment. You can make a thread about anyone on the team, because everyone is struggling.

__________________

“Every good army needs a couple of criminals.” - Dean Lombardi
Telos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:43 PM
  #54
markisonfire
Registered User
 
markisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 3,483
vCash: 500
Someone had to take over now that Jack Johnson is gone. I guess Doughty is stepping up to the plate.

markisonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:46 PM
  #55
KingKopitar11*
Drew Doughty Eh?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: staples center
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 16,319
vCash: 500
Drew is playing so much, I am not surprised, hes doing good, that stat doesn't say the whole story.

KingKopitar11* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:47 PM
  #56
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I think every day there will be a new thread about a different Kings player The entire team has horrible stats across the board at the moment. You can make a thread about anyone on the team, because everyone is struggling.
Coming into tonites game, Clifford was the Kings second leading scorer on the season....Richards/Brown each have exactly 1 even strength point on the year...and the Kings have the worst PP in the league....

KingLB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:20 PM
  #57
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 6,256
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
His on-ice SV% is .830. It doesn't really matter how good you play defensively at that point, you're going to be a minus player.
where is it that you get a stat like that?

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:49 PM
  #58
Ollie Weeks
Registered User
 
Ollie Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, NWO
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Not solid at all. You spend the next hour trying to figure out what it means or, like our friend above in the thread go re-watch the games and find it is the defensive partner or goalie skewing the number.

+/- is utter garbage. To use it for anything is to lessen your understanding of the game.

You CANNOT give all players on the ice a + or - for the sins of one or two players. By design +/- was never going to work. It is garbage.
*** applause***

Ollie Weeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 12:34 AM
  #59
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
 
King'sPawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,085
vCash: 500
As a Kings fan, I can freely admit that Doughty can play better, but he hasn't been bad either. He's playing some hard minutes, usually against the opposition's top lines, because Mitchell and Greene are both out. Up until two games ago, Doughty and Scuderi was the top pairing.

After tonight, it's going to be Mitchell, Greene, AND Martinez out. So half the defensive corps of the cup winning Kings is injured, which puts more pressure on the veterans to step up.

Defensively, Doughty makes the occasional bad chip or giveaway while trying to do too much. It's uncharacteristic of him, so I'm willing to overlook this. Offensively, Doughty is struggling because he's taking WAY too long to shoot. While he waits for the perfect shot to come, a defending forward is able to get in the shooting lane and block it. It's been his biggest problem for a while, which is why he's struggled offensively in the past couple years.

If Doughty starts firing off shots faster, his numbers will pick up.

But yes, he is playing better than his stats would indicate.

King'sPawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 12:50 AM
  #60
deckercky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
You can look at differences at +/- within the same team, though, and draw some fairly solid observations. Voynov is a team best +4 while averaging over 20 minutes a night. Doughty is a team worst -10. That's not a difference you can simply explain away by saying "well, it's a team game!" or "but Doughty plays against better competition!"
Playing against better competition is a factor though. But from ouendan1's post, it sounds like Doughty has mostly had some bad luck for when he was on the ice. People always underestimate how much luck factors into hockey. That's one reason why I love shooting percentage over time - it shows so clearly how players tend to shoot at their mean level, but luck sways it better or worse, sometimes being the difference between a 15 goal season and a 30 goal season.

deckercky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 04:06 AM
  #61
HolyShot*
Sniper
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 2,015
vCash: 500
When 2 of your defensive specialists are out, you're going to suffer. Drew has had to pick up the slack and play without his regular partner since the season started. Also, the Sutter era has set in and Drew isn't benefiting from Murray's uber defensive game plan.

HolyShot* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 05:18 AM
  #62
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
The Kings can't buy a goal and he has played an average of around 30 minutes a game. Quick has been shakey/iffy this year (just look at HIS numbers) giving up horrendous goals that shouldn't go in and most NHL goalies should stop. We're missing Mitchell and Greene. Doughty has been strong this year, his numbers lie in this instance.

This should be a thread about Quick, not Doughty IMO.
I don't think Quick is to blame for Doughty's 1 even strength point on the season.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 06:33 AM
  #63
JureEe
Go Kings Go!
 
JureEe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: sLOVEnija
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 590
vCash: 500
wait for next couple of games with half of AHL defence

Greene - out (probably season)
Mitchell - out (season?)
Martinez - out (not known how much)

JureEe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:05 AM
  #64
toewsintangibles
Registered User
 
toewsintangibles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,324
vCash: 500
Come on guys.. Dion Doughty has been playing really well this season

toewsintangibles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:16 AM
  #65
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
Kings fans, I know +/- is not the best statistic, but I'm curious how you feel his play has been this year.
Too many dounuts this year. Doughty seems to have one good year, one bad year...

birddog* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:17 AM
  #66
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
Come on guys.. Dion Doughty has been playing really well this season
If Dion was -10 with one point the hate would be enormous.

birddog* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:25 AM
  #67
KnightofBoston
MVP
 
KnightofBoston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Amherst, Ma
Country: United States
Posts: 12,474
vCash: 500
Generally when I think about these things I look at the rest of the team when it comes to plus minus

Why does Voynov have a plus 7?

Ya the kings aren't playing well and doughty gets a lot of minutes, but when you are supposed to be as good as doughty, it's inexcusable that your p/m would be that bad

KnightofBoston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 10:02 AM
  #68
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 10,233
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
Generally when I think about these things I look at the rest of the team when it comes to plus minus

Why does Voynov have a plus 7?

Ya the kings aren't playing well and doughty gets a lot of minutes, but when you are supposed to be as good as doughty, it's inexcusable that your p/m would be that bad
I don't fully disagree--but Kings fans have shown we'll berate the guy when he plays poorly. Why do you suppose none of us are that mad (other than the natural main-board defense instincts )?

And Voynov is amazing--he's grown a lot since last year and he's sort of a secret it seems--just like line 1 opens up space for line 2, it seems Voynov is having space opened up for him. And he's figured out body positioning VERY well--he used to get slaughtered by big forwards. But you'll never mistake his D for Doughty's.

Brad Doty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 10:57 AM
  #69
Riddum
Registered User
 
Riddum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,083
vCash: 500
I got flamed when I said that PK Subban> Drew Doughty.

Riddum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 11:06 AM
  #70
Reclamation Project
I Not Much Like LA
 
Reclamation Project's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 18,530
vCash: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
I got flamed when I said that PK Subban> Drew Doughty.
Everyone is superior to Drew on this site...

Reclamation Project is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 11:22 AM
  #71
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 10,233
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
I got flamed when I said that PK Subban> Drew Doughty.
And rightly so.

PK is awesome, but Drew is superior.

Brad Doty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 11:30 AM
  #72
SharksFan1
Registered User
 
SharksFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,010
vCash: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor View Post
But does he play on the PK, because that's what determines a good defenceman?
But that wouldn't explain the -10

SharksFan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 11:31 AM
  #73
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 31,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
I got flamed when I said that PK Subban> Drew Doughty.
And you will continue to be flamed. What does Subban have on Doughty that makes him better?

I swear, a majority of posters here probably only watch one team and have no clue what goes on outside of their bubble and just look at stat sheets and form an opinion based on the popular opinion on here.


Last edited by Ziggy Stardust: 02-12-2013 at 11:53 AM.
Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 11:51 AM
  #74
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,674
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
And you will continue to be flamed. What does Subban have on Doughty that makes him better?

I swear, a majority of posters here probably only watch one team and have no clue what goes on outside of their bubble and just look at stay sheets and form an opinion based on the popular opinion on here.

i even think it a fair bit of conjecture to posit the idea that they don't even watch their own team.

wabwat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 11:52 AM
  #75
DontgoZiggy
Registered User
 
DontgoZiggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 1,218
vCash: 500
Doughty has had a few bad giveaways and he doesn't have any goals yet, but I think he's been playing fine for his situation. Our D has taken a big hit with the loss of Mitchell and Green, Two of our most physical Dmen. I've been pleasantly suprised by the play of Ellerby but he's still a long way from being able to replace Mitchell.

DontgoZiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.