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Brian Burke Thread - March 2013

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02-23-2013, 10:35 AM
  #451
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
No its not..he sucks. Small, offensive defenseman not particularly strong in his own zone..how many types of these players does one team need? Why is he sitting in the pressbox? He is one of those contracts that will be tough to move, IMO especially while he isnt even playing. If Reilly and Gardiner are good to go next year...what purpose does Liles serve?
If Gardiner is so good, why is he in the A right now?
And what if Rielly isn't ready?
It's fun to play 'lets assume' when creating a team isn't it?

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02-23-2013, 10:40 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Daisy Joy View Post
Are we reaping the benefits of Burke's moves now? Yes, I think so, but I also think a lot of what we see on the ice is what Ferguson Jr. did as well. This team isn't just "What Burke Did" and he didn't get to see it through. He was here and in the time he was here, how many playoffs did we make it to? I'm sorry that would be a big fat zero.

I liked the guy, I defended the guy, but at the end of the day, I can acknowledge that while he did some moves to help us out a lot, he did a lot that shot us in the foot.

And if you want to say that's a facepalm, that's fine.
JFJ did a very good job while here, and many praised him at the time. You'll often find some posters/trolls complain that JFJ made horrible trades such as the Raycroft deal, where it was shown JFJ had no autonomy, wanted to rebuild and was told no, and was told to make the playoffs.

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02-23-2013, 12:21 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
You don't like Carlyle?
Love RC, hated RW.

RCs gonna have to be here a little bit longer before he washes off RWs stench, sorry.

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02-23-2013, 12:25 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
If by continue you mean starts, cause he ain't done nothing yet.

And not everyone who points out the good he's done is singing his praises. Giving credit where credit is due is ok in my book.
Agreed, i have no issue pointing out his good moves and still hate the fact he was our Gm.

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02-23-2013, 12:34 PM
  #455
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This team that is playing quite well has jettisoned a bunch of Burke signings, let's keep that in mind when talking about how "he built this team." Sure, but the team he built also included a total of what, around $15 million/year (or over 20% of the salary cap) for players who are no longer in the lineup:

Armstrong
Komisarek
Connolly
Liles

If we want to be totally fair, we can excuse those signings (except Armstrong at $3 mil, which was at no point a good idea). They were free agent signings for positions we needed. But they were still total flops. None of those players came close to justifying their contracts. They played a lot of minutes and had every opportunity to turn things around.

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02-23-2013, 12:42 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
JFJ did a very good job while here, and many praised him at the time. You'll often find some posters/trolls complain that JFJ made horrible trades such as the Raycroft deal, where it was shown JFJ had no autonomy, wanted to rebuild and was told no, and was told to make the playoffs.
The people that praised JFJ and invented excuses to blame others for his failures are the same people who will praise any Leaf GM regardless of his record here .

JFJ had complete autonomy in the day to day decisions and he said so himself . JFJ only asked to do a complete rebuild once he drove a 100 point team into the gutter .

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02-23-2013, 12:42 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Agreed, i have no issue pointing out his good moves and still hate the fact he was our Gm.
Fair enough. I have no issue with that, as long as you also acknowledge that without him we may not have the talent we currently do have. I'm not a big fan of JFJ either, but without him we may not have Reims, Kulie, Frattin, Koma, possibly even Phaneuf...

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02-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
This team that is playing quite well has jettisoned a bunch of Burke signings, let's keep that in mind when talking about how "he built this team." Sure, but the team he built also included a total of what, around $15 million/year (or over 20% of the salary cap) for players who are no longer in the lineup:

Armstrong
Komisarek
Connolly
Liles

If we want to be totally fair, we can excuse those signings (except Armstrong at $3 mil, which was at no point a good idea). They were free agent signings for positions we needed. But they were still total flops. None of those players came close to justifying their contracts. They played a lot of minutes and had every opportunity to turn things around.
Yup, Nonis did trade one player, Carlyle waived another and has sat Komi. Liles has played 15 games this year and has been solid.

Meanwhile, key players on this team:

Kessel
JVR
Phaneuf
Franson
Kadri
Bozak
Scrivens

All appeared mysteriously overnight.

See? Good and bad.

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02-23-2013, 12:51 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
The same could be said for his detractors.

Agreed. Lets move on.
And again it's like talking to my nephews. Lol. Yes, Eddie, the other side too.

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02-23-2013, 01:08 PM
  #460
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Honestly this is all so pointless. It should be all considered water under the bridge. Yes any particular GM brought in player A. But another GM may have brought in player B who we may prefer to have right now. It is also fruitless to ignore whatever good player that GM is responsible for. I am sure we can discuss these things and agree to disagree with one another.

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02-23-2013, 01:28 PM
  #461
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Burkes legacy will be celebrated here for a long time. It really is astounding the number of good moves/decisions he made during his tenure.

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02-23-2013, 01:36 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Burkes legacy will be celebrated here for a long time. It really is astounding the number of good moves/decisions he made during his tenure.
Burkes tenure with the Leafs will also be celebrated in Boston for years to come .


Last edited by hotpaws: 02-23-2013 at 02:58 PM.
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Old
02-23-2013, 01:43 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
If Gardiner is so good, why is he in the A right now?
And what if Rielly isn't ready?
It's fun to play 'lets assume' when creating a team isn't it?
So what...none of that changes the fact that JML should have never been re-signed. .He serves no purpose. He is redundant. He sits in the pressbox. Its really refreshing to see finally that there truly is no more "blue and white disease" coined by the genius himself despite fulfilliing its fine tradition as much if not more than any previous GM. Its not about Gardiner, recovering from a concussion and already proving he is better than JML last season...at a much cheaper rate. Its not about if Reilly isnt ready next year. Carlyle/Nonis have already proven you could get similar or even better results by playing some hungry plugs from the AHL than some overpriced veteran UFA who was never really that good to begin with

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02-23-2013, 01:51 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
If by continue you mean starts, cause he ain't done nothing yet.

And not everyone who points out the good he's done is singing his praises. Giving credit where credit is due is ok in my book.
If you mean "nothing" because he doesn't hold a press conference every 5 minutes to discuss his bowel movements then okay..he's done nothing. He started moving out the trash and actually getting some pugnacity..the minute he stepped in...so you give the fathead 4 years to spin his wheels but Mr. Nonis needs to get a move on because he 's done nothing in 6 weeks he has been in charge...

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02-23-2013, 02:56 PM
  #465
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bb might be used to scout some of our games for the ducks
he's getting old and might have forgotten half of his players

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02-23-2013, 02:58 PM
  #466
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Critique the posts not the poster

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02-23-2013, 03:00 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Every GM leaves pieces for the next GM but that doesn't mean they were doing a good job while they were running the team .

It's funny how in another thread the pro Burke crowd was bashing JFJ for leaving nothing and then some of the same type of posters turn around and are now defending JFJ . You guys should really make a effort not to contradict yourselves .
You guys?

Perhaps you should stop generalizing and try arguing the point.

I don't need to attack another GM to find the good in Burke's tenure. I have already pointed out the good in the tenure of both GMs. Again, there is nothing wrong with giving credit where credit is due. I have yet to see many here do this.

I have seen many of the people you tend to run down here point out the decisions they don't agree with. They do tend to come off as extreme optimists sometimes as they spend much of their time defending against those who cannot admit that any good at all has been done.

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02-23-2013, 03:03 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
If you mean "nothing" because he doesn't hold a press conference every 5 minutes to discuss his bowel movements then okay..he's done nothing. He started moving out the trash and actually getting some pugnacity..the minute he stepped in...so you give the fathead 4 years to spin his wheels but Mr. Nonis needs to get a move on because he 's done nothing in 6 weeks he has been in charge...
No, by nothing I mean he's done nothing yet. Feel free to point out where I said his work is done.

Good argument though, why argue with something someone is actually saying when you can just make it up right?

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02-23-2013, 03:04 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Burkes legacy will be celebrated here for a long time. It really is astounding the number of good moves/decisions he made during his tenure.
There are times I believe you are a marketing genius. This is one of those times. Just playing around.

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02-23-2013, 03:05 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Burkes tenure with the Leafs will also be celebrated in Boston for years to come .
Sure will, good to see you agree it will be celebrated here though. Progress.

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02-23-2013, 03:09 PM
  #471
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
So what...none of that changes the fact that JML should have never been re-signed. .He serves no purpose. He is redundant. He sits in the pressbox. Its really refreshing to see finally that there truly is no more "blue and white disease" coined by the genius himself despite fulfilliing its fine tradition as much if not more than any previous GM. Its not about Gardiner, recovering from a concussion and already proving he is better than JML last season...at a much cheaper rate. Its not about if Reilly isnt ready next year. Carlyle/Nonis have already proven you could get similar or even better results by playing some hungry plugs from the AHL than some overpriced veteran UFA who was never really that good to begin with
Again, he's played 15 games this year. Feel free to look it up. If they are seeing this as you say, why are they not playing Gardiner now? Liles himself has been recovering from a concussion, and yet he's got 15 games, and Gardiner continues to toil in the A this year.

There were many disappointments over Burke's tenure, Liles is not one of them.

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02-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #472
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its funny when people are arguing that nonis has done a amazing job and burke didn't.... they were both here for 4 years.. they were working together... every decision went through both of them. keep arguing over nothing though its fun to read.

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02-23-2013, 03:28 PM
  #473
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
JFJ had complete autonomy in the day to day decisions
No way did he have full autonomy, I don't care what he said at the press conference while MLSE several executives (including Peddie) were sitting in the room. Extreme JFJ haters seem to like to believe that, but we all know Richard Peddie had his hands all over that mess.

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02-23-2013, 03:36 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
You guys?

Perhaps you should stop generalizing and try arguing the point.

I don't need to attack another GM to find the good in Burke's tenure. I have already pointed out the good in the tenure of both GMs. Again, there is nothing wrong with giving credit where credit is due. I have yet to see many here do this.

I have seen many of the people you tend to run down here point out the decisions they don't agree with. They do tend to come off as extreme optimists sometimes as they spend much of their time defending against those who cannot admit that any good at all has been done.
Like i said every GM and i mean every GM leaves assets for the next GM and that includes Burke . However saying this doesn't mean the previous GM should get credit for his replacements success . A team is more than the sum of it's parts and how a GM uses his assets separates the successful Gm's from the failures .

You're right many of the people i run down do point out Burkes mistakes but there's almost always an excuse that goes along with the mistakes to absolve him of any blame . I'll give you a few examples off the top of my head .

bad ufa signing - stop gap and it didn't prevent us from aquiring any available quality player

trading 2 future 1sts - there's no way he could have know the picks would be that high

why his retool is taking longer than he said - JFJ left him nothing and there's no way anyone else could have done a better or quicker retool/rebuild

why did he build such a soft team if he wanted a gritty tough team - that's on RW

why didn't he fire RW much earlier if they weren't on the same page - he's a quality coach who derserved a chance to coach a competitive team before you could evaluate his performance

Let's be honest the list of excuses were never ending by the Burke supporters and now with a little success from the current team a few of his supporters are all over this board singing his praises to justify there faith in him .

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02-23-2013, 03:50 PM
  #475
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Like i said every GM and i mean every GM leaves assets for the next GM and that includes Burke . However saying this doesn't mean the previous GM should get credit for his replacements success . A team is more than the sum of it's parts and how a GM uses his assets separates the successful Gm's from the failures .

You're right many of the people i run down do point out Burkes mistakes but there's almost always an excuse that goes along with the mistakes to absolve him of any blame . I'll give you a few examples off the top of my head .

bad ufa signing - stop gap and it didn't prevent us from aquiring any available quality player

trading 2 future 1sts - there's no way he could have know the picks would be that high

why his retool is taking longer than he said - JFJ left him nothing and there's no way anyone else could have done a better or quicker retool/rebuild

why did he build such a soft team if he wanted a gritty tough team - that's on RW

why didn't he fire RW much earlier if they weren't on the same page - he's a quality coach who derserved a chance to coach a competitive team before you could evaluate his performance

Let's be honest the list of excuses were never ending by the Burke supporters and now with a little success from the current team a few of his supporters are all over this board singing his praises to justify there faith in him .
But you do the same thing in reverse, everything he did good comes with a 'but'. Why can they not do the same thing?

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