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Brian Burke Thread - March 2013

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02-23-2013, 09:57 PM
  #526
Winreims
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I didn't say JFJ had as much autonomy as Burke i said neither Peddie nor the board meddled in his day to day moves . If this is all you can find to back up your claims then your argument is pathetic .

I'm sure a lot of ten year olds followed the team back then but it really doesn't mean i'll take there point of view seriously .

The problem with you is you think having to go through a pres to explain your moves is meddling and somehow because you have to do this you are not in control of the team .
LOL you said JFJ had full autonomy over day to day ops (which wasn't true) and then you said Peddie didn't meddle (which did happen). And now you're backtracking. Dude this is getting embarrassing for you, seriously. Just stop.

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02-23-2013, 10:01 PM
  #527
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kessel bozak gardiner franson, for geztlaf and perry signed contracts
burke can have his players back

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02-23-2013, 10:25 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
LOL you said JFJ had full autonomy over day to day ops (which wasn't true) and then you said Peddie didn't meddle (which did happen). And now you're backtracking. Dude this is getting embarrassing for you, seriously. Just stop.
Try to follow along because i'm getting tired of you spinning my posts .

I said jr had full autonomy in his day to day moves with respect to the mandate he was given . He was expected to make the playoffs and his moves had to reflect that mandate .

Now if you think that's meddling you're entitled to your opinion but i don't consider that meddling and it's a heck of alot different then some people who seem to think Peddie was directly invovled in making deals or drafting players .

And enough with your sarcastic little jabs that don't accomplish anything and just prove how weak your argument is .

I'm also still waiting for examples of individuals moves that you keep saying Peddie meddled in

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02-23-2013, 10:52 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Try to follow along because i'm getting tired of you spinning my posts .

I said jr had full autonomy in his day to day moves with respect to the mandate he was given . He was expected to make the playoffs and his moves had to reflect that mandate .

Now if you think that's meddling you're entitled to your opinion but i don't consider that meddling and it's a heck of alot different then some people who seem to think Peddie was directly invovled in making deals or drafting players .

And enough with your sarcastic little jabs that don't accomplish anything and just prove how weak your argument is .

I'm also still waiting for examples of individuals moves that you keep saying Peddie meddled in
Please keep up: It was meddling and you are backtracking. There is no "spinning" of your words, it's all in this thread. You tried to make it out like Peddie left JFJ alone to do his thing which is not true. You said JFJ had full autonomy of day to day ops, you were proven wrong and are now giving the lame "oh I meant jr had full autonomy in his day to day moves with respect to the mandate he was given". YOU ARE WRONG. Get it? JFJ never had full autonomy over anything when it came to the Leafs.

I'll decide when I'm done with my sarcastic jabs at your awful arguments, not you.

And I'm still waiting for you to learn how to read. I told you I'm not doing your research for you. If you don't believe me and the number of other posters that have tried to set you straight about Peddie, then there is no hope for you in this discussion

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02-23-2013, 11:10 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
Please keep up: It was meddling and you are backtracking. There is no "spinning" of your words, it's all in this thread. You tried to make it out like Peddie left JFJ alone to do his thing which is not true. You said JFJ had full autonomy of day to day ops, you were proven wrong and are now giving the lame "oh I meant jr had full autonomy in his day to day moves with respect to the mandate he was given". YOU ARE WRONG. Get it? JFJ never had full autonomy over anything when it came to the Leafs.

I'll decide when I'm done with my sarcastic jabs at your awful arguments, not you.

And I'm still waiting for you to learn how to read. I told you I'm not doing your research for you. If you don't believe me and the number of other posters that have tried to set you straight about Peddie, then there is no hope for you in this discussion
Look at the lilttle child all wound up and frustrated that he can't come up with one example of Peddie meddling in jr's moves . Stating your opinion isn't fact and i'd love to know when i was proven wrong .

The onus is you to prove that Peddie meddled because it's impossible for me prove something i keep saying never happened .

Also saying i backtracked is just another lie from you because you can't come up with anything to prove your point . I said from the beginning jr was hired to keep a 100 point team competitive and that was the mandate he had to follow .

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02-23-2013, 11:11 PM
  #531
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Who cares about Burke. He is a garbage GM that ******* this team up for years to come with his terrible trades and signings.

He left the team in a disaster. The team is a joke.

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02-23-2013, 11:18 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Look at the lilttle child all wound up and frustrated that he can't come up with one example of Peddie meddling in jr's moves . Stating your opinion isn't fact and i'd love to know when i was proven wrong .

The onus is you to prove that Peddie meddled because it's impossible for me prove something i keep saying never happened .

Also saying i backtracked is just another lie from you because you can't come up with anything to prove your point . I said from the beginning jr was hired to keep a 100 point team competitive and that was the mandate he had to follow .
The constant child remarks are clearly a reflection of yourself. You said JFJ had full autonomy over day to day ops, you were proven wrong by me and others and are now saying "Oh but I meant something else". I've shown you an article (one of many) that state Peddie meddled in JFJ's work, and you were proven wrong again. I'm now going to drag up an old thread from a few weeks ago to laugh at how off base you are about all of this time period.

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02-23-2013, 11:35 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
The constant child remarks are clearly a reflection of yourself. You said JFJ had full autonomy over day to day ops, you were proven wrong by me and others and are now saying "Oh but I meant something else". I've shown you an article (one of many) that state Peddie meddled in JFJ's work, and you were proven wrong again. I'm now going to drag up an old thread from a few weeks ago to laugh at how off base you are about all of this time period.
I've said from the beginning jr had control under the mandate that he was hired .

You have proven nothing and since you can't find one shread of eveidence of Peddie meddling you're now trying to use the opinions of others to justify your opinion .

You should really google the article where jr said Peddie didn't meddle and read it from the horses mouth if you don't believe me .

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02-23-2013, 11:40 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
Who cares about Burke. He is a garbage GM that ******* this team up for years to come with his terrible trades and signings.

He left the team in a disaster. The team is a joke.
Do you even watch hockey?

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02-23-2013, 11:42 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I've said from the beginning jr had control under the mandate that he was hired .

You have proven nothing and since you can't find one shread of eveidence of Peddie meddling you're now trying to use the opinions of others to justify your opinion .

You should really google the article where jr said Peddie didn't meddle and read it from the horses mouth if you don't believe me .
No you said this, your exact words:

Quote:
JFJ had complete autonomy in the day to day decisions
I (and others) challenged you on it pages back, and you changed your tune. Everyone in here have proven the point that he meddled. And if you believe Peddie when he says he didn't meddle at the time, then you are gullible. There is a reason he made sure that Burke was going to have FULL REINS over the team, something that JFJ did not have. It's fully documented from years back, including the article I posted.

Peddie realized that he had to give full power out to Burke, because it was the only way to attract. That means that that full power over the hockey team was NOT given to JFJ. He never had complete control over the team and the direction that he wanted to take it in.

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02-23-2013, 11:44 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
The constant child remarks are clearly a reflection of yourself. You said JFJ had full autonomy over day to day ops, you were proven wrong by me and others and are now saying "Oh but I meant something else". I've shown you an article (one of many) that state Peddie meddled in JFJ's work, and you were proven wrong again. I'm now going to drag up an old thread from a few weeks ago to laugh at how off base you are about all of this time period.
You are losing this atm

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02-23-2013, 11:46 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Inconceivable View Post
You are losing this atm
Thanks for the scoring update. Third period comeback is on it's way

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02-23-2013, 11:47 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
kessel bozak gardiner franson, for geztlaf and perry signed contracts
burke can have his players back

Orr
Lupul
Phaneuf
JVR

BUrke did a damn fine job. This team is way better of than when our Star forward was Stajan, OUr best D was a 30yr old Kaberle, and our best prospect was a slow footed stay at home defenseman.

Enough of the Burke bashing. He corrected the mistakes of Ownership and their interference over the previous several years.

We have depth, we have talent, we have assets to move. Sounds like a team in a pretty good situation.

So enough.

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02-23-2013, 11:48 PM
  #539
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Seriously though .. I NEVER thought I'd see the day that a Leaf fan took a side of Richard Peddie. He was the most hated man in Toronto for years, funny how times change.

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02-23-2013, 11:52 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post

Orr
Lupul
Phaneuf
JVR

BUrke did a damn fine job. This team is way better of than when our Star forward was Stajan, OUr best D was a 30yr old Kaberle, and our best prospect was a slow footed stay at home defenseman.

Enough of the Burke bashing. He corrected the mistakes of Ownership and their interference over the previous several years.

We have depth, we have talent, we have assets to move. Sounds like a team in a pretty good situation.

So enough.
whats wrong with perry and getzlaf?

6 guys are from the jfj days, and nonis had a hand on some of them,
the bad contracts burkie signed

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02-23-2013, 11:53 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I've said from the beginning jr had control under the mandate that he was hired .

You have proven nothing and since you can't find one shread of eveidence of Peddie meddling you're now trying to use the opinions of others to justify your opinion .

You should really google the article where jr said Peddie didn't meddle and read it from the horses mouth if you don't believe me .
And his mandate was to make the playoffs regardless of cost.

Every deal he made was approved, so Ownership has to share the blame.

YOu can nitpick all you want and sure day to day stuff Peddie didn't care about but the personel decisions and the direction of hte team was certainly dictated by ownership.

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02-23-2013, 11:53 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
He corrected the mistakes of Ownership and their interference over the previous several years.
I agree, he did.

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02-23-2013, 11:55 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
And his mandate was to make the playoffs regardless of cost.
Exactly and this was the problem. JFJ was in the last year of his contract and was told that he had to win NOW, so he goes out and overpays for Toskala and Blake. He wanted to begin a rebuild, but Peddie and the rest thought that they knew best

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02-23-2013, 11:59 PM
  #544
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whats wrong with perry and getzlaf?

6 guys are from the jfj days, and nonis had a hand on some of them,
the bad contracts burkie signed
Man what can I say?

If you look at this team and say it is no better than the day Burke took it over, then I don't know what to say.

The truculence and beligerence he wanted, the same things you mocked him for, are kind of evident right now aren't they?

1st in hits. 1st in fights.

Whatever. Some people just never gave Burke a chance and never will.

Too bad he is gone. He should be here to enjoy what he has helped build.

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02-24-2013, 12:00 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
Exactly and this was the problem. JFJ was in the last year of his contract and was told that he had to win NOW, so he goes out and overpays for Toskala and Blake. He wanted to begin a rebuild, but Peddie and the rest thought that they knew best
And remember Toskala was pretty much the best goalie available if you looked at the numbers. Too bad it was SJS system that made him look so good.

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02-24-2013, 12:06 AM
  #546
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Seriously though .. I NEVER thought I'd see the day that a Leaf fan took a side of Richard Peddie. He was the most hated man in Toronto for years, funny how times change.
He definitely was and deservedly so. But I disagree with your view of what he did wrong. His mistakes were taking pat Quinn's gm title away, handing the job over to someone who was completely incompetent, and telling him to "win now". But as hotpaws has been trying to say, he probably didn't have much say in the actual decisions that jfj made. Do you really think that peddie knew anything at all about raycroft or toskala? Those were decisions that jfj made to fill a hole to try to "win now".

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02-24-2013, 12:07 AM
  #547
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And remember Toskala was pretty much the best goalie available if you looked at the numbers. Too bad it was SJS system that made him look so good.
Oh yeah for sure. And I remember thinking it was an overpayment, BUT Toskala was a good goaltender and could help us. Boy was I wrong It just never worked out. Although his 07-08 record of 33-25-6 (.904 sv%) wasn't atrocious, it all went to hell after that year..

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02-24-2013, 12:08 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Man what can I say?

If you look at this team and say it is no better than the day Burke took it over, then I don't know what to say.

The truculence and beligerence he wanted, the same things you mocked him for, are kind of evident right now aren't they?

1st in hits. 1st in fights.

Whatever. Some people just never gave Burke a chance and never will.

Too bad he is gone. He should be here to enjoy what he has helped build.
if we had a better GM take over than, we would be a cup contender now. not a team that will be fighting for 8th spot.

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02-24-2013, 12:11 AM
  #549
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if we had a better GM take over than, we would be a cup contender now. not a team that will be fighting for 8th spot.
If you are implying we should have done it like Edmonton did, all you need to do is look at the standings to see how it has worked out for them so far. If you are not implying that, please elaborate.

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02-24-2013, 12:11 AM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Inconceivable View Post
He definitely was and deservedly so. But I disagree with your view of what he did wrong. His mistakes were taking pat Quinn's gm title away, handing the job over to someone who was completely incompetent, and telling him to "win now". But as hotpaws has been trying to say, he probably didn't have much say in the actual decisions that jfj made. Do you really think that peddie knew anything at all about raycroft or toskala? Those were decisions that jfj made to fill a hole to try to "win now".
Oh I agree taking Quinn's title and giving it to a rookie was a wrong, BUT think about why he did that. He handed the reins over to a rookie because he knew he could use him and have him as his puppet. And it's out there that Fergie had to run everything major by Peddie and the board, that would include the Raycroft/Toskala acquisitions.

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