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Brian Burke Thread - March 2013

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02-26-2013, 01:25 PM
  #676
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If you have a better way to rate/track then prospects than asking the people who watch them for a living then let's hear it. What's your system? I know I don't have the time to travel to all these games and watch the hundreds of prospects year after year so, like it or not, I'm stuck with the current format.
I think you might be surprised with how many they do or do not see either.

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02-26-2013, 01:42 PM
  #677
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I think you might be surprised with how many they do or do not see either.
Once again, please enlighten us. I just don't know of a better system, do you?

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02-26-2013, 06:44 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Once again, please enlighten us. I just don't know of a better system, do you?
It would help if you started with something that even remotely resembled a "system". Your "system" consists of assuming that because someone is employed by an NHL team, that they clearly possess some sort of above average perception of player quality. Nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of people with NHL jobs have them because they are friends. There is next to no emphasis put on results. Further, can you name me who exactly provided these rankings? If you could, then at least we could perhaps discuss their individual success rates, though even that is highly unlikely. At every turn we hear that "the Maple Leaf squad must be judged by on ice results". Fine. So why then would we judge our prospects differently? Last year's Calder Cup finalist was lead through the playoffs almost entirely by it's youth and prospects. Those are actual results. Why change the measure now to crystal ball navel gazing? I can't be the only one who finds it interesting, nay shockingly predictable that same said youth is leading the charge in most categories with the parent club. Perhaps the hang up is what does or does not constitute a "prospect" but for me, all I care is they are young and developing guys.

If you're going to play the "sometimes it's best not to get involved at all until a better understanding of the situation is reached" card and then play your trump card as a bunch of friends (none of whom you can show any degree of skill set for), methinks it might be wise to consider your own quote with regards to your own position.

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02-26-2013, 06:55 PM
  #679
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LOL

"I know the Leafs prospects better than professionals because I said so."

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02-26-2013, 06:57 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If you have a better way to rate/track then prospects than asking the people who watch them for a living then let's hear it. What's your system? I know I don't have the time to travel to all these games and watch the hundreds of prospects year after year so, like it or not, I'm stuck with the current format.
Apparently eyeball11 has "insider" information that results don't matter.

A professional scout, earning a living off his ability to assess talent, can be wrong 100% of the time and still earn his salary.

You heard it here first, on HFboards, from a Leafs fan trying to discredit the views of pro scouts because they don't flatter the Leafs.

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02-26-2013, 07:01 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
And the standings in 2013 paint a different picture than the one you are painting here.
We've played 20 games. Unfortunately Burke screwed up three years worth of seasons prior to these 20 games (246 games).

Quote:
We're doing it missing our #1 goalie and 2 of our top 4 wingers.

Is it the coach?

Well Burke hired the guy.

It takes some serious blinders to say the team is not in better shape thanks to Brian Burke.
He hired an actual coach after holding on to an absolutely terrible one for three years.

Notice how no one wants Ron as a coach in the NHL?

Takes some serious blinders to retain a coach nobody else would employ that seriously damaged the teams chances to compete.

For that reason alone he should be fired, but then you can look at all the other screw ups and just add it all together.

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02-26-2013, 07:02 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
LOL

"I know the Leafs prospects better than professionals because I said so."
Up to your usual lying I see? Not surprised. If you read carefully, I based my opinion on actual on ice results. You're the one who wants to base them off of crystal ball navel gazing. It certainly served you well in your assessment of Loktionov, didn't it?

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02-26-2013, 07:04 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
It would help if you started with something that even remotely resembled a "system". Your "system" consists of assuming that because someone is employed by an NHL team, that they clearly possess some sort of above average perception of player quality. Nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of people with NHL jobs have them because they are friends. There is next to no emphasis put on results. Further, can you name me who exactly provided these rankings? If you could, then at least we could perhaps discuss their individual success rates, though even that is highly unlikely. At every turn we hear that "the Maple Leaf squad must be judged by on ice results". Fine. So why then would we judge our prospects differently? Last year's Calder Cup finalist was lead through the playoffs almost entirely by it's youth and prospects. Those are actual results. Why change the measure now to crystal ball navel gazing? I can't be the only one who finds it interesting, nay shockingly predictable that same said youth is leading the charge in most categories with the parent club. Perhaps the hang up is what does or does not constitute a "prospect" but for me, all I care is they are young and developing guys.

If you're going to play the "sometimes it's best not to get involved at all until a better understanding of the situation is reached" card and then play your trump card as a bunch of friends (none of whom you can show any degree of skill set for), methinks it might be wise to consider your own quote with regards to your own position.
If you don't know the answer to the question you can save yourself some time and just say so. You're dismissing people out of hand who's paycheque depends on their ability to assess hockey talent while not offering up a better way to do it yourself. The best you're giving us is who ever advances as a young Calder Cup finalist team? Or do you basically believe that the draft and all prospects are a crap shoot? What's the best way to determine which teams have the best prospects coming up the pipeline?


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02-26-2013, 07:07 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Up to your usual lying I see? Not surprised. If you read carefully, I based my opinion on actual on ice results. You're the one who wants to base them off of crystal ball navel gazing. It certainly served you well in your assessment of Loktionov, didn't it?
How is that lying? What you are basically saying is that you think you know more than a pro scout LOL.

You implied it. Not me!

What was that proposal of yours again? Loktionov for who again? Link me please.

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02-26-2013, 07:10 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If you don't know the answer to the question you can save yourself some time and just say so. You're dismissing people out of hand who's paycheque depends on their ability to assess hockey talent while not offering up a better way to do it yourself. The best you're giving us is a forever advances as a young Calder Cup finalist team? Or do you basically believe that the draft and all prospects are a crap shoot?
Your question was answered, we base it off of on ice results. The crop you are referring to produced them.

Aside from a very small handful of players, yes, a whole lot of the draft is crap shoot.

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02-26-2013, 07:13 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
How is that lying? What you are basically saying is that you think you know more than a pro scout LOL.

You implied it. Not me!

What was that proposal of yours again? Loktionov for who again? Link me please.
I said no such thing. I said that we base our assessment off of on ice results. Those prospects produced them.

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02-26-2013, 07:14 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Your question was answered, we base it off of on ice results. The crop you are referring to produced them.

Aside from a very small handful of players, yes, a whole lot of the draft is crap shoot.
So we base prospect pool strengths on Calder Cups and American Hockey League standings?

You do realize almost all of the greatest players in the game never played a single game in the AHL right?



This is honestly too much to handle. I dont often laugh because of this message board but wow that was a hearty one.

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02-26-2013, 07:14 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Your question was answered, we base it off of on ice results. The crop you are referring to produced them.

Aside from a very small handful of players, yes, a whole lot of the draft is crap shoot.
It's an answer, I guess. AHL standings mean more to you then they do for myself. If the Leafs had the number one ranked prospects in the NHL I hope you'd be arguing the same thing you are now.

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02-26-2013, 07:14 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I said no such thing. I said that we base our assessment off of on ice results. Those prospects produced them.
You seem to have a very incomplete picture of what the American Hockey League is and what kind of players are there.

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02-26-2013, 07:17 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
So we base prospect pool strengths on Calder Cups?

You do realize almost all of the greatest players in the game never played a single game in the AHL right?

Yup. We base all our assessments off of on ice results. That's what the realists want, that's what the realists get.

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02-26-2013, 07:17 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
It's an answer, I guess. AHL standings mean more to you then they do for myself. If the Leafs had the number one ranked prospects in the NHL I hope you'd be arguing the same thing you are now.
I guess Winnipeg has a terrible farm team because Mark Scheifele and Jacob Trouba are playing junior hockey and won't ever spend time in the AHL.


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02-26-2013, 07:17 PM
  #692
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I will agree that the later picks in a standard NHL draft are usually crapshoots, however, consider the small amount of players who are never drafted and wind up making it to the NHL. I'd say that for the most part, NHL teams are able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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02-26-2013, 07:18 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
You seem to have a very incomplete picture of what the American Hockey League is and what kind of players are there.
Sure I do. I've only been watching it for decades and am probably one of the only people to have seen an AHL Leaf farm team win the Calder live.

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02-26-2013, 07:18 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Yup. We base all our assessments off of on ice results. That's what the realists want, that's what the realists get.
Being realistic would be scouting ALL of the games (something you apparently don't believe in doing LOL)

That includes counting Morgan Rielly in Moose Jaw, and every other prospect not playing in the American Farm League

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02-26-2013, 07:19 PM
  #695
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Sure I do. I've only been watching it for decades and am probably one of the only people to have seen an AHL Leaf farm team win the Calder live.
Keith Aucoin must be the next Gretzky right?

What a prospect!

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02-26-2013, 07:19 PM
  #696
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Being realistic would be scouting ALL of the games (something you apparently don't believe in doing LOL)

That includes counting Morgan Rielly in Moose Jaw, and every other prospect not playing in the American Farm League
I think you meant to say the results of his game, which I can assure you I have done.

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02-26-2013, 07:20 PM
  #697
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I think you meant to say the results of his game, which I can assure you I have done.
I think you should drop this silly idea at once.

The way it must look to a neutral reader.

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02-26-2013, 07:21 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Keith Aucoin must be the next Gretzky right?

What a prospect!
Why do you keep talking about individuals? To the realist all that matters is team results.

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02-26-2013, 07:22 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I think you should drop this silly idea at once.

The way it must look to a neutral reader.
Why? I've been assured over and over again that all that matters is team results.

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02-26-2013, 07:24 PM
  #700
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I think you meant to say the results of his game, which I can assure you I have done.
And I'm sure pro scouts have too. And I'm sure they know what prospects teams have in the American Hockey league...and the Swedish Elite League, and every other league.

That's what they get paid to do.

Something tells me you could even name five SEL players, let alone knowing their teams inside and out.

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