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Brian Burke Thread - March 2013

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:07 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Brian Burke is a typical Leafs fan then, I guess.

Mortgaging 1st round picks and prospects for short term success right away.
What short term success right away would you be referring to here?

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03-06-2013, 10:24 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by SnipeCheeseAllDay View Post
Kadri
Rielly
Gardiner
JVR
Lupul
Phaneuf
Kessel
McClement
Franson

Biggs
Percy
Finn
Leivo
C. Brown

Burke did very well putting this team together. He definitely has a good eye for talent and knows how to develop those players. His problem wasn't his hockey knowledge, it was more his attitude and his approach to doing business.
Good eye for talent my ass! He severely blew the Kessel trade because he evaluated his team to be higher in talent than actually were. We bottomed out and gave Boston two very good players because of his huge mistake. And remember, we had Kessel and still finished near dead last ffs!

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03-06-2013, 10:26 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by MiniMoose View Post
Thank you Burke for giving us good players. Burkes flaw was his contracts and the Kessel trade
Especially the K trade!

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03-06-2013, 11:42 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
What short term success right away would you be referring to here?
The short term success that you would hope and expect to come from trading two 1st round picks for an established player in the league.

I don't think the plan was to trade 1st round picks and then tank...because that doesn't make any sense.

Unfortunately that's what happened and Burke failed the franchise and mortgaged away a huge part of our future for a one-zone winger.

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03-06-2013, 12:39 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
What short term success right away would you be referring to here?
So if you were a GM, what do you think your strategy is if you traded two firsts? Are you looking long term, or building a foundation? Both isn't a great answer because it's hard to be half pregnant.

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03-06-2013, 01:00 PM
  #781
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Holy crap, the trade was 4 years ago, the GM who made it's been fired, and you guys still feel the need to talk about it? Jesus, this thread is giving me ulcers.

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03-06-2013, 01:06 PM
  #782
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Holy crap, the trade was 4 years ago, the GM who made it's been fired, and you guys still feel the need to talk about it? Jesus, this thread is giving me ulcers.
It's the Brian Burke thread and a trade that defined his stay as GM. You are surprised it's been mentioned?

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03-06-2013, 01:08 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Holy crap, the trade was 4 years ago, the GM who made it's been fired, and you guys still feel the need to talk about it? Jesus, this thread is giving me ulcers.
I think that was the most lopsided trade/signing/draft whatever you call it he made during his tenure as a Leafs GM. People are going to talk about it. Discussion of his tenure would be incomplete without that trade.

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03-06-2013, 01:11 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
I think that was the most lopsided trade/signing/draft whatever you call it he made during his tenure as a Leafs GM. People are going to talk about it. Discussion of his tenure would be incomplete without that trade.
It was bad - but it's not close to the signings of Komisarek, Liles, Armstrong and Connolly.

Those make me actively mad.

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03-06-2013, 01:14 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
Good eye for talent my ass! He severely blew the Kessel trade because he evaluated his team to be higher in talent than actually were. We bottomed out and gave Boston two very good players because of his huge mistake. And remember, we had Kessel and still finished near dead last ffs!
That trade was years ago. Get over it and stop whining.

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03-06-2013, 01:15 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
It's the Brian Burke thread and a trade that defined his stay as GM. You are surprised it's been mentioned?
What's been said that hasn't been at least 300 times before?

This entire thread is the same three guys going "rabble rabble rabble Brian Burke."

You guys sound like me after my first break up lol. Let it gooooo.

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03-06-2013, 01:22 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
The short term success that you would hope and expect to come from trading two 1st round picks for an established player in the league.

I don't think the plan was to trade 1st round picks and then tank...because that doesn't make any sense.

Unfortunately that's what happened and Burke failed the franchise and mortgaged away a huge part of our future for a one-zone winger.
Are you for real?

He was a freaking 21 year old skilled winger, not a 30+ old past his prima donna. Calm your hormones. He got rid of two draft picks not two super star prospects. He's actually gathered more young prospects than trading them, unlike a guy like JFJ.

The reasons the leafs are anywhere to be good today is because of his signing, the coach of his likings and the pieces he has placed that are coming up now. A huge part of the future, you are telling me Tyler Seguin, and Dougie hamilton would be a huge success of pulling us out of this funk when veteran players weren't able to? You were also on the bandwagon for moving out Kadri, when he also drafted him and made sure to take his sweet time. How is that looking on you now?

His biggest and stupidest mistake in his tenure here was keeping his buddy Ron Wilson for too long, which in the end cost him his job. A GM's job isn't done in 4 years nor is enough time analyze, it's usually evaluated over a decade's worth. Don't believe me or think it's absurd? Take it up with Kenny Holland who stated said this. Same with GM's like Glen Sather, and Lou Lamoriello who have experienced this and are now praised for. Difference is, their ownership gave them sweet time and realized what was the right process for it, unlike ours. We are very fortunate that our GM is from the chip from the same block or we might have been in for another ride of switching things up.

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03-06-2013, 01:30 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Are you for real?

He was a freaking 21 year old skilled winger, not a 30+ old past his prima donna. Calm your hormones. He got rid of two draft picks not two super star prospects. He's actually gathered more young prospects than trading them, unlike a guy like JFJ.
And traded two 1st round picks which obviously become prospects, and since Burke screwed up the team so bad...they were star prospects.

And yeah, Burke traded Tlusty, Stalberg, and Stralman away...but who's counting?

Quote:
The reasons the leafs are anywhere to be good today is because of his signing, the coach of his likings and the pieces he has placed that are coming up now. A huge part of the future, you are telling me Tyler Seguin, and Dougie hamilton would be a huge success of pulling us out of this funk when veteran players weren't able to? You were also on the bandwagon for moving out Kadri, when he also drafted him and made sure to take his sweet time. How is that looking on you now?
I'm saying Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton are outscoring Kessel together while being younger, cheaper, and on long-term contracts.

I was also once on the Kadri bandwagon...I fell off...and now I am back on. I was one of his biggest defenders here. I didn't think he would prosper under Carlyle (similar to how Kessel is struggling). I was wrong and it turns out Carlyle is a great coach for all sorts of players.

One of my many posts about Kadri:

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Kadri is one of few players on this team that give you the feeling that something special might happen... its been 2 games but he seems like a changed, more complete player to me.
I was calling for him to be up with the club for years.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
did people really think he was gonna get sent down.. the guy is clearly one of the most skilled players on the ice for this team and we can't afford to get rid of him at this point.

It was ****ing idiotic to not call him up earlier
So again, I guess I was more inaccurate about the style of coaching Carlyle uses.

Quote:
His biggest and stupidest mistake in his tenure here was keeping his buddy Ron Wilson for too long, which in the end cost him his job. A GM's job isn't done in 4 years nor is enough time analyze, it's usually evaluated over a decade's worth. Don't believe me or think it's absurd? Take it up with Kenny Holland who stated said this. Same with GM's like Glen Sather, and Lou Lamoriello who have experienced this and are now praised for. Difference is, their ownership gave them sweet time and realized what was the right process for it, unlike ours. We are very fortunate that our GM is from the chip from the same block or we might have been in for another ride of switching things up.
That was also a substantial mistake but the Kessel trade was more damaging long-term since Hamilton and Seguin are going to be Bruins for way longer than Kessel will a Leaf and play better too.

The only reason I brought up trading 2 first round picks is because someone called someone impatient, neglecting the fact that Burke himself said he is impatient and traded first round picks and good young players away for short term success.


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03-06-2013, 01:41 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Are you for real?

He was a freaking 21 year old skilled winger, not a 30+ old past his prima donna. Calm your hormones. He got rid of two draft picks not two super star prospects. He's actually gathered more young prospects than trading them, unlike a guy like JFJ.

The reasons the leafs are anywhere to be good today is because of his signing, the coach of his likings and the pieces he has placed that are coming up now. A huge part of the future, you are telling me Tyler Seguin, and Dougie hamilton would be a huge success of pulling us out of this funk when veteran players weren't able to? You were also on the bandwagon for moving out Kadri, when he also drafted him and made sure to take his sweet time. How is that looking on you now?

His biggest and stupidest mistake in his tenure here was keeping his buddy Ron Wilson for too long, which in the end cost him his job. A GM's job isn't done in 4 years nor is enough time analyze, it's usually evaluated over a decade's worth. Don't believe me or think it's absurd? Take it up with Kenny Holland who stated said this. Same with GM's like Glen Sather, and Lou Lamoriello who have experienced this and are now praised for. Difference is, their ownership gave them sweet time and realized what was the right process for it, unlike ours. We are very fortunate that our GM is from the chip from the same block or we might have been in for another ride of switching things up.
A gm's job is to read the tea leaves regarding his clubs potential and their position year to year, is it not?

You're crapping on JFJ who didn't have the luxury that Burke had of non-interference? Really? Where would this club be without JFJ's draft picks?

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03-06-2013, 01:48 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
And traded two 1st round picks which obviously become prospects, and since Burke screwed up the team so bad...they were star prospects.

And yeah, Burke traded Tlusty, Stalberg, and Stralman away...but who's counting?
You mean two first rounds which become those two players, I mean hey I'm sure he was carrying a crystal ball in his lunch pack that said that right? Oh I am sure Chiarelli knew this when he was also listening to the offer of the blue jackets and the predators who were offered a first rounder with either Jonathan Blum or John Moore. Look at that another proposal with two first rounders.

Oh yea ? Tlusty is a first rounder right, wait a minute here...are you telling me he's a first line player? Just like Tyler Bozak ? Good job buddy we got a first rounder as well then by that logic right?

Oh who's counting, wait a minute:
Tyler Bozak (can be considered a first rounder by the level of production he's done but hey who's counting, if you compare them by the age of those from his draft year it will prove my point), Stuart Percy (1st rounder), Tyler Biggs(1st rounder), Carter Ashton (1st rounder, which was flipped for Aulie, who was a consolation prize from the phaneuf robbery), Joe Colborne (1st rounder), Nazem Kadri (1st rounder), Jake Gardiner (1st rounder) and then moves like getting more picks in the drafts but hey who's counting right? I mean he only did sell back the player that a team could've easily kept over the free agency for a guy like Lupul and Gards right?

Quote:
I'm saying Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton are outscoring Kessel together while being younger, cheaper, and on long-term contracts.

I was also once on the Kadri bandwagon...I fell off...and now I am back on. I was one of his biggest defenders here. I didn't think he would prosper under Carlyle (similar to how Kessel is struggling). I was wrong and it turns out Carlyle is a great coach for all sorts of players.
Oh yea they are doing a great job keeping up the team in the standings because of them the team is on a crazy streak....oh wait, it is not the case now is it? Wanna know who's making more of a standpoint for the bruins that really hurts me? Tuuka Rask, who's not only playing behind an excellent defensive team but also showing he's not to be messed around with. Whatever happened raycroft I wonder....

It's funny how you fell off because guess what..that's not how hockey works. If the rangers had listened to the out cry of all those fans that was asking for sather's head in 2004-06, when they fell off, guess what would've happened? They wouldn't have a ludnqvist, a richards, a callahan, a dubinsky and a staal and so on. They do now because they were patience and they didn't need to tank for the first overall either.

Again this is utter ******** and nonsense I keep hearing, guess who else also was supposedly struggling due to carlyle's work? Teemu Selanne past his prime, Bobby Ryan who had the same treatment as Nazem Kadri in the AHL who is thriving now, Dan Sexton who also took the same crap, Matt Beleskey who took the same crap, even players who were defensively stable in Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry, so this foolishness about Carlyle ruining kessel needs to stop. Skill always comes out but defensive games refine and helps your skill utilized properly at the right time and pace.
Quote:
That was also a substantial mistake but the Kessel trade was more damaging long-term since Hamilton and Seguin are going to be Bruins for way longer than Kessel will a Leaf and play better too.

The only reason I brought up trading 2 first round picks is because someone called someone impatient, neglecting the fact that Burke himself said he is impatient and traded first round picks and good young players away for short term success.
As I said Burke's most foolish mistake was his partner Wilson, which in the end cost of job. However patience wise, yes he was a bit more impatient than this franchise needed but in the end he has done more good than harm, however people won't admit. All those who despise him him will bring up this foolish Kessel talk.

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03-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #791
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You mean two first rounds which become those two players, I mean hey I'm sure he was carrying a crystal ball in his lunch pack that said that right? Oh I am sure Chiarelli knew this when he was also listening to the offer of the blue jackets and the predators who were offered a first rounder with either Jonathan Blum or John Moore. Look at that another proposal with two first rounders.

Oh yea ? Tlusty is a first rounder right, wait a minute here...are you telling me he's a first line player? Just like Tyler Bozak ? Good job buddy we got a first rounder as well then by that logic right?

Oh who's counting, wait a minute:
Tyler Bozak (can be considered a first rounder by the level of production he's done but hey who's counting, if you compare them by the age of those from his draft year it will prove my point), Stuart Percy (1st rounder), Tyler Biggs(1st rounder), Carter Ashton (1st rounder, which was flipped for Aulie, who was a consolation prize from the phaneuf robbery), Joe Colborne (1st rounder), Nazem Kadri (1st rounder), Jake Gardiner (1st rounder) and then moves like getting more picks in the drafts but hey who's counting right? I mean he only did sell back the player that a team could've easily kept over the free agency for a guy like Lupul and Gards right?



Oh yea they are doing a great job keeping up the team in the standings because of them the team is on a crazy streak....oh wait, it is not the case now is it? Wanna know who's making more of a standpoint for the bruins that really hurts me? Tuuka Rask, who's not only playing behind an excellent defensive team but also showing he's not to be messed around with. Whatever happened raycroft I wonder....

It's funny how you fell off because guess what..that's not how hockey works. If the rangers had listened to the out cry of all those fans that was asking for sather's head in 2004-06, when they fell off, guess what would've happened? They wouldn't have a ludnqvist, a richards, a callahan, a dubinsky and a staal and so on. They do now because they were patience and they didn't need to tank for the first overall either.

Again this is utter ******** and nonsense I keep hearing, guess who else also was supposedly struggling due to carlyle's work? Teemu Selanne past his prime, Bobby Ryan who had the same treatment as Nazem Kadri in the AHL who is thriving now, Dan Sexton who also took the same crap, Matt Beleskey who took the same crap, even players who were defensively stable in Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry, so this foolishness about Carlyle ruining kessel needs to stop. Skill always comes out but defensive games refine and helps your skill utilized properly at the right time and pace.


As I said Burke's most foolish mistake was his partner Wilson, which in the end cost of job. However patience wise, yes he was a bit more impatient than this franchise needed but in the end he has done more good than harm, however people won't admit. All those who despise him him will bring up this foolish Kessel talk.
Is that how low the standards have sunk around here?

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03-06-2013, 01:52 PM
  #792
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A gm's job is to read the tea leaves regarding his clubs potential and their position year to year, is it not?

You're crapping on JFJ who didn't have the luxury that Burke had of non-interference? Really? Where would this club be without JFJ's draft picks?
The only thing I praise JFJ for is the late picks and most important that not many people acknowledge is bringing the AHL team to the same city as it's parent club. It is a BIG bonus for undrafted players that want a real shot with the big club.

He was also in a crummy spot where MLSE had to decide whatever was necessary to get to the playoffs. When it was pretty clear post lockout that we needed a change and move our veterans to rebuild our organization.

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03-06-2013, 01:53 PM
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Is that how low the standards have sunk around here?
please dont tell me you believe where we have to rip this team limb from limb to achieve success because right now there aint a crosby or a gretzky in the drafts in the upcoming years.

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03-06-2013, 01:54 PM
  #794
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please dont tell me you believe where we have to rip this team limb from limb to achieve success because right now there aint a crosby or a gretzky in the drafts in the upcoming years.
Maybe there's some Giroux's (22nd overall).

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03-06-2013, 01:55 PM
  #795
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JFj and BB have their hands all over this team.

That's normally what happens unless you keep a GM for over a decade, and you'd only do that if he was winning or in Nashville.

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03-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #796
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JFj and BB have their hands all over this team.

That's normally what happens unless you keep a GM for over a decade, and you'd only do that if he was winning or in Nashville.
It takes a while to clean out crap before you install the new stuff. Simple as that, in the future you'll see more of Burke's work than JFJ's.

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03-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #797
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Maybe there's some Giroux's (22nd overall).
Richards, Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Eberle, Richards and many more are there too.

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03-06-2013, 01:59 PM
  #798
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You mean two first rounds which become those two players, I mean hey I'm sure he was carrying a crystal ball in his lunch pack that said that right? Oh I am sure Chiarelli knew this when he was also listening to the offer of the blue jackets and the predators who were offered a first rounder with either Jonathan Blum or John Moore. Look at that another proposal with two first rounders.

Oh yea ? Tlusty is a first rounder right, wait a minute here...are you telling me he's a first line player? Just like Tyler Bozak ? Good job buddy we got a first rounder as well then by that logic right?

Oh who's counting, wait a minute:
Tyler Bozak (can be considered a first rounder by the level of production he's done but hey who's counting, if you compare them by the age of those from his draft year it will prove my point), Stuart Percy (1st rounder), Tyler Biggs(1st rounder), Carter Ashton (1st rounder, which was flipped for Aulie, who was a consolation prize from the phaneuf robbery), Joe Colborne (1st rounder), Nazem Kadri (1st rounder), Jake Gardiner (1st rounder) and then moves like getting more picks in the drafts but hey who's counting right? I mean he only did sell back the player that a team could've easily kept over the free agency for a guy like Lupul and Gards right?



Oh yea they are doing a great job keeping up the team in the standings because of them the team is on a crazy streak....oh wait, it is not the case now is it? Wanna know who's making more of a standpoint for the bruins that really hurts me? Tuuka Rask, who's not only playing behind an excellent defensive team but also showing he's not to be messed around with. Whatever happened raycroft I wonder....

It's funny how you fell off because guess what..that's not how hockey works. If the rangers had listened to the out cry of all those fans that was asking for sather's head in 2004-06, when they fell off, guess what would've happened? They wouldn't have a ludnqvist, a richards, a callahan, a dubinsky and a staal and so on. They do now because they were patience and they didn't need to tank for the first overall either.

Again this is utter ******** and nonsense I keep hearing, guess who else also was supposedly struggling due to carlyle's work? Teemu Selanne past his prime, Bobby Ryan who had the same treatment as Nazem Kadri in the AHL who is thriving now, Dan Sexton who also took the same crap, Matt Beleskey who took the same crap, even players who were defensively stable in Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry, so this foolishness about Carlyle ruining kessel needs to stop. Skill always comes out but defensive games refine and helps your skill utilized properly at the right time and pace.


As I said Burke's most foolish mistake was his partner Wilson, which in the end cost of job. However patience wise, yes he was a bit more impatient than this franchise needed but in the end he has done more good than harm, however people won't admit. All those who despise him him will bring up this foolish Kessel talk.


This is the dumbest argument anyone could possibly make in regards to the kessel trade. Why you and some others continue to regurgitate it is beyond me.

We know who the players are - they have names now:

Tyler Sequin
Dougie Hamilton
Jared Knight

This was the price paid. Suggesting that our GM didn't know how bad the team he controlled really was - is not a get out of jail free card - if anything it makes him look ever worse then if he literally traded the above 3 players for Kessel.

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03-06-2013, 02:01 PM
  #799
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please dont tell me you believe where we have to rip this team limb from limb to achieve success because right now there aint a crosby or a gretzky in the drafts in the upcoming years.
Where did I say that? How do you know there isn't a great player in the upcoming draft? You're coming off badly because somebody called you out a little. Tell me, what do you expect out of a GM?

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03-06-2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Where did I say that? How do you know there isn't a great player in the upcoming draft? You're coming off badly because somebody called you out a little. Tell me, what do you expect out of a GM?
I'd like to know this as well Leaf Rocket ...

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