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Old
02-12-2013, 01:15 PM
  #201
sparxx87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
Elliott is better than Scrivens.
Stewart is better than Kulemin
Mcrae and Colborne are pretty much a wash
Pietrangelo is much better than Phaneuf.
Elliott had a good year, no question, but it looks like it was a fluke.. Either way the Leafs have no need for Elliott.

The age old debate of Stewart vs Kulemin, something we don't have the answer to. Both are coming off poor seasons so its TBD.

Colborne and McRae may be a wash from the Blues perspective, but Colborne has bigger upside so the Leafs keep their guy.

Pietrangelo is better then Phaneuf but that wasn't the point. The point I was making is that 3 mediocre pieces (2 of which are useless to Toronto) aren't enough to move their best defenseman.


Leaf fans get accused of trying to sell quantity for quality but this is a prime example of that.

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02-12-2013, 01:23 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Elliott had a good year, no question, but it looks like it was a fluke.. Either way the Leafs have no need for Elliott.

The age old debate of Stewart vs Kulemin, something we don't have the answer to. Both are coming off poor seasons so its TBD.

Colborne and McRae may be a wash from the Blues perspective, but Colborne has bigger upside so the Leafs keep their guy.

Pietrangelo is better then Phaneuf but that wasn't the point. The point I was making is that 3 mediocre pieces (2 of which are useless to Toronto) aren't enough to move their best defenseman.


Leaf fans get accused of trying to sell quantity for quality but this is a prime example of that.
The original deal was from a Leafs fan that he was trying to rework though. Maybe it was a quantity for quality deal, but it was from a Leafs fan.

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02-12-2013, 01:31 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
The original deal was from a Leafs fan that he was trying to rework though. Maybe it was a quantity for quality deal, but it was from a Leafs fan.
And another Toronto fan responded by saying how horrible the deal was... Rather then sweetening the deal, a Blues fan decided to take a prospect inserted to try and bridge the gap between Stewart and Phaneuf, and swapped him for a bottom 6 prospect whose 22 with little upside... Thus, making the deal essentially Stewart for Phaneuf. Backup goalies don't hold much value, especially when they're playing horribly. Bottom 6 prospects don't hold much value either.

Classic case of give me the best player for 3 pieces I don't want because they aren't very good. I think Stewart has more to show, but he's coming off a very underwhelming season and needs to prove he isn't like his brother.

Rattie, Stewart and Elliott doesn't even get consideration, never mind swapping Rattie for an even lesser prospect.

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Old
02-12-2013, 01:36 PM
  #204
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With the model of...Elliott + Rattie + Stewart for Phaneuf, what would we need to be added from our side if we added in Oshie or swapped him with Stewart?

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02-12-2013, 01:38 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by blue bleeder 24-7 View Post
This is very close. Is it up for negotiation? I'd like to keep Sobotka, but I realize you guys want value coming back.

Phanuef

for

Elliott + Stewart + 1 of: (D'Agostini/Nichol/Russel) + 3rd 2013

Would that work?

Alternatively, I'd be willing to move Perron for Phanuef straight up, but if I'm GM, I don't pull that card until that first proposal is sent through the ringer a few times.

Thoughts?
Wow, No.

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Old
02-12-2013, 01:39 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
With the model of...Elliott + Rattie + Stewart for Phaneuf, what would we need to be added from our side if we added in Oshie or swapped him with Stewart?
Oshie is one of the few bright spots of the team so far and is an emotional leader. I really don't see him going anywhere.

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Old
02-12-2013, 01:56 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Wonder if Blues would want Jay McClement back. Leafs have been misusing him a bit and Steckel is a viable replacement if they deal him
No, he isn't. I don't know what games that you've been watching, but McClement has been solid thus far.

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:01 PM
  #208
uncommonsense52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
With the model of...Elliott + Rattie + Stewart for Phaneuf, what would we need to be added from our side if we added in Oshie or swapped him with Stewart?
It seems like you and me are the ones negotiating this deal in our own little world

It'd take a lot to pry away Oshie, as he's so strong 2-way and also usually is at the top of our scoring charts.

It'd be a lot more palatable to package in Perron instead of Oshie, if you're looking for a wing with an eye on the goal. But even then, a lot would be needed in return.

Either way, here's how I see this:

Elliot (NHL backup with the potential to shut down everything for awhile, like last year)

Rattie (Very good prospect, just under blue-chip level)

Stewart (Second-liner now, with First Line Power Forward potential)

Oshie (First-line forward, plays 200 feet, leads our team in scoring consistently, does everything right with style sometimes, is the poster-boy of the Blues' 06-11 Rebuild era)

Perron (First/Second line forward, edge-of-your-seat in the offensive zone, decent in his own end, though not 100% reliable back there. In the right environment, could be an explosive puck handler at a PPG)

So to add Oshie into the deal makes this potentially entirely undoable. Adding Perron in makes this manageable, but we'd want a significant return.

Whether or not Perron is a piece you're interested in, I don't know.

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:09 PM
  #209
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All this talk of Kessel, Phaneuf, Tarasenko etc... I doubt there's a pending blockbuster between the teams.

In all likelihood, it's something like Bozak (pending UFA) or a defenceman not named Phaneuf (too big/unlikely a trade), Liles or Komisarek (contracts too large). So maybe one of Kostka, Holzer, Fraser, or Franson.

For picks and/or prospects.

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:10 PM
  #210
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None of these teams are going to be involved a blockbuster trade.

Nonis is a lot more patient than Burke was...he's not going to go out and trade anyone like Kessel, Phaneuf etc.

It's going to be a trade that involves a #4-#6D or top 6 forward like MacArthur (if the Blues needed it).

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:15 PM
  #211
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We either need quality or it's a change of scenery deal with equal players.

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:16 PM
  #212
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Has no here ever gone into a store with no intentions of buying anything, just to see what that store has in stock?

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02-12-2013, 02:18 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darty View Post
Has no here ever gone into a store with no intentions of buying anything, just to see what that store has in stock?
Armstrong is making a deal, the only question is with who and for what.

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:37 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darty View Post
Has no here ever gone into a store with no intentions of buying anything, just to see what that store has in stock?
That's what the scouts are for. I think a Western Conference GM in a season that has zero inter-conference games and with such a condensed schedule would NOT come out to scout an Eastern Conference game unless there was a potential deal on the table. If it's just to browse, I'm sure they send scouts at regular intervals to see most teams.

That's pure speculation on my part, but I think it makes sense.

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:54 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
That's what the scouts are for. I think a Western Conference GM in a season that has zero inter-conference games and with such a condensed schedule would NOT come out to scout an Eastern Conference game unless there was a potential deal on the table. If it's just to browse, I'm sure they send scouts at regular intervals to see most teams.

That's pure speculation on my part, but I think it makes sense.
I think you are right.
Some one else said that 2 Flyers scouts where watching the Blues at the same time so it does not have to be the Leafs he wants to trade with.

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02-12-2013, 02:56 PM
  #216
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So many Leafs fans make other leafs fan look so bad. First, they post our lineup here without our top scorer right now JVR and than make stupid ass proposals.. Like stop being so stupid...At least post some realistic proposals... We have a new GM, so id think he'd make everyone avilb on the team. Cause Dion has been solid for 3 games doesn't mean Nonis changed his mind on him. Id be willing to trade Dion for the right price. The only guys i want to keep are Frattin,Kadri,JVR,Rielly. The rest can be traded.

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Old
02-12-2013, 03:15 PM
  #217
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Toronto fans: ask yourself this question : How many times has the Leafs been to the Playoffs since 2006? Zero. As a matter of fact, the highest revenue earning team in the NHL hasn't made the playoffs since 2004, before both lockouts No wonder the NHL wants to place another team in Toronto.

Ok, your last GM Burke made some terrible decisions, most notable the Kessel deal, and ran the franchise into the ground. What is current GM Nonis thinking? That the Leafs can make the playoffs and make some noise with this core? Doing whatever it takes to get Luongo out of Vancouver and mortgage the future again much like the Kessel fiasco? Perhaps that is why Blues GM is in Toronto, inquiring about Phaneuf.

Phaneuf would be a great addition for the Blues: My offer : Stewart, 2013 2nd round pick, and either Schmaltz/Cole.

Meh, probably moot making a deal with the Leafs anyway since that terrible deal (interim) GM Cliff Fletcher made when he traded to the Blues Def Cola, and Fwd Steen for Fwd Stempniak.

And The Curse of Frank Mahovlich on Toronto AND The Curse of Scotty Bowman on St. Louis continues for the longest drought... It is what it is...


Last edited by JustOneB4IDie: 02-12-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old
02-12-2013, 03:39 PM
  #218
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Can St. Louis fans please stop trying to get Dion Phaneuf for Brian Elliott.

We do not want Brian Elliott. Don't know if you got the memo, but he has posted a GAA of 2.5+++ every year in the league except for last season, and with a career SV % of around .900, I think the report that last year was a one season wonder is out on him.

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Old
02-12-2013, 03:42 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
Toronto fans: ask yourself this question : How many times has the Leafs been to the Playoffs since 2006? Zero. As a matter of fact, the highest revenue earning team in the NHL hasn't made the playoffs since 2004, before both lockouts No wonder the NHL wants to place another team in Toronto.

Ok, your last GM Burke made some terrible decisions, most notable the Kessel deal, and ran the franchise into the ground. What is current GM Nonis thinking? That the Leafs can make the playoffs and make some noise with this core? Doing whatever it takes to get Luongo out of Vancouver and mortgage the future again much like the Kessel fiasco? Perhaps that is why Blues GM is in Toronto, inquiring about Phaneuf.

Phaneuf would be a great addition for the Blues: My offer : Stewart, 2013 2nd round pick, and Cole.

Meh, probably moot making a deal with the Leafs anyway since that terrible deal (interim) GM Cliff Fletcher made when he traded to the Blues Def Cola, and Fwd Steen for Fwd Stempniak.

And The Curse of Frank Mahovlich on Toronto AND The Curse of Scotty Bowman on St. Louis continues for the longest drought... It is what it is...
The franchise he "ran into the ground" is currently sitting in 4th right now based entirely off players he acquired. Unless Frazer McLaren was the difference after all these years...

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02-12-2013, 04:08 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Can St. Louis fans please stop trying to get Dion Phaneuf for Brian Elliott.

We do not want Brian Elliott. Don't know if you got the memo, but he has posted a GAA of 2.5+++ every year in the league except for last season, and with a career SV % of around .900, I think the report that last year was a one season wonder is out on him.
I agree some of those proposals were brutal.

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Old
02-12-2013, 04:46 PM
  #221
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Some people are going to be awfully disappointed when its a depth Leafs dman for a pick

Phaneuf isnt happening. Its entirely unrealistic for both teams

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Old
02-12-2013, 05:13 PM
  #222
sparxx87
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
Toronto fans: ask yourself this question : How many times has the Leafs been to the Playoffs since 2006? Zero. As a matter of fact, the highest revenue earning team in the NHL hasn't made the playoffs since 2004, before both lockouts No wonder the NHL wants to place another team in Toronto.

Ok, your last GM Burke made some terrible decisions, most notable the Kessel deal, and ran the franchise into the ground. What is current GM Nonis thinking? That the Leafs can make the playoffs and make some noise with this core? Doing whatever it takes to get Luongo out of Vancouver and mortgage the future again much like the Kessel fiasco? Perhaps that is why Blues GM is in Toronto, inquiring about Phaneuf.

Phaneuf would be a great addition for the Blues: My offer : Stewart, 2013 2nd round pick, and either Schmaltz/Cole.

Meh, probably moot making a deal with the Leafs anyway since that terrible deal (interim) GM Cliff Fletcher made when he traded to the Blues Def Cola, and Fwd Steen for Fwd Stempniak.

And The Curse of Frank Mahovlich on Toronto AND The Curse of Scotty Bowman on St. Louis continues for the longest drought... It is what it is...
What's with the ignorance? Nobody on HF has any control of the decisions made in the front office so the condescension is completely unnecessary..

The NHL would want another team in Toronto because people in Toronto actually support their team. Imagine that? You should be thankful for the Leafs because if they didn't subsidize your team through revenue sharing, you wouldn't have one.

The Kessel trade was made due to an impatient GM, something Nonis isn't. He isn't going to trade for Luongo and you suggesting such is a reflection of your lack of knowledge in the matter. A healthy James Reimer is a number 1 goalie and his numbers when healthy reflect that.

Phaneuf for quantity isn't happening. I'm one of his bigger critics and think some fans overrate him calling him a franchise guy etc. He's not a franchise d man, but he is a number 1 and holds significant value. Phaneuf isn't all that bright and isn't going to make good decisions if he's forced to do so a lot in a run and gun system, but when you have a coach like Carlyle(or Hitchcock) who demand a structured defensive system, Phaneuf can and will be successful. He looks better and better as he and the rest of the team further adapt to this new system.

The Leafs have no interest in trading him for anything short of a colossal overpayment.. Nothing in this thread has even approached that.

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02-12-2013, 05:15 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
The franchise he "ran into the ground" is currently sitting in 4th right now based entirely off players he acquired. Unless Frazer McLaren was the difference after all these years...
Good Luck to the Leafs, they have not "Hit the Wall" yet...

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02-12-2013, 05:19 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
What's with the ignorance? Nobody on HF has any control of the decisions made in the front office so the condescension is completely unnecessary..

The NHL would want another team in Toronto because people in Toronto actually support their team. Imagine that? You should be thankful for the Leafs because if they didn't subsidize your team through revenue sharing, you wouldn't have one.

The Kessel trade was made due to an impatient GM, something Nonis isn't. He isn't going to trade for Luongo and you suggesting such is a reflection of your lack of knowledge in the matter. A healthy James Reimer is a number 1 goalie and his numbers when healthy reflect that.

Phaneuf for quantity isn't happening. I'm one of his bigger critics and think some fans overrate him calling him a franchise guy etc. He's not a franchise d man, but he is a number 1 and holds significant value. Phaneuf isn't all that bright and isn't going to make good decisions if he's forced to do so a lot in a run and gun system, but when you have a coach like Carlyle(or Hitchcock) who demand a structured defensive system, Phaneuf can and will be successful. He looks better and better as he and the rest of the team further adapt to this new system.

The Leafs have no interest in trading him for anything short of a colossal overpayment.. Nothing in this thread has even approached that.
Armstrong isn't "going to make a trade just to make a trade" or overpay either I'll add. And I agree that it's moot on finding a trade partner in the Leafs either. Good Luck the rest of the season.

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Old
02-12-2013, 05:19 PM
  #225
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Elliott ****ing sucks. Wouldn't take him for free.

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