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Larry Brooks on the Thomas Trade

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:36 AM
  #1
crashthenet
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Larry Brooks on the Thomas Trade

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...32Ke0UjDo3F0rO

Worthy of it's own thread. Sums it all up.

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02-10-2013, 12:00 PM
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Was an interesting read. I posted a snippet of this article in the Thomas thread.

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02-10-2013, 12:05 PM
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Ill be real pissed if we trade for most draft picks

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02-10-2013, 12:16 PM
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A Pointed Stick
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Because this season is a charade. This roster is a pennies-on-the-dollar exploitation of the fan base that does not so much as suggest an attempt at an honest rebuild for the battered fan-base, but an attempt to move the goal posts, perhaps all the way to Brooklyn.
A-****ing-Men. Larry Brooks gets it/nails it.

People need to read the entire part on the Islanders. It should be a sticky at the top of the forum.

It is too bad Staple can't call out the Islanders like this without being locked out by the team.


Last edited by A Pointed Stick: 02-10-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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02-10-2013, 12:38 PM
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Brooks nails it but he always loves taking shots at Wang and the Isles. Some of it fair (like this one) and other times not. However, the Thomas "trade" is a blatant exploitation of the rules as possible, it actually makes me wonder what would happen if Thomas suddenly came knocking on Snow's door telling him he's ready to play...

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02-10-2013, 12:43 PM
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OlTimeHockey
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Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
Brooks nails it but he always loves taking shots at Wang and the Isles. Some of it fair (like this one) and other times not. However, the Thomas "trade" is a blatant exploitation of the rules as possible, it actually makes me wonder what would happen if Thomas suddenly came knocking on Snow's door telling him he's ready to play...
Garth would be scrambling to trade Nabby or Thomas to any team with a high injury risk high dollar player and order an injury in practice?

The last part: Wang gets money from the NHL. NOT THE TEAM. NO BETTER PRODUCT! JUST WANG!!!

Glad he "saved" the Isles. Jesus...every year gets worse.

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02-10-2013, 12:47 PM
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Stop posting links from that piece of trash tabloid!

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02-10-2013, 12:48 PM
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I hate reading something so negative, but yet so right. This is an unbelievably cheap move. They are playing for the lowest cap hit, not the wins. If they put as much effort into winning as they do finding ways to get the lowest caphit we would be a Stanely Cup Contender by now.

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02-10-2013, 12:49 PM
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Maybe we should change the name of our team to the PennyPinchers.

And honestly Snow gets all this heat but its really Wang closing the wallet. I give him big credit for keeping the team in NY but after that's its a joke.

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02-10-2013, 12:51 PM
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crashthenet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr016 View Post
Stop posting links from that piece of trash tabloid!
No matter how true it is?

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
It is too bad Staple can't call out the Islanders like this without being locked out by the team.
In fairness, Staple works for a real publication. The Post is the quintessence of the dumbing down of the media and ultimately, America.

I just watched something on ESPN where Lebrun and Melrose both liked the move from the Islanders perspective and loved it for Boston!

So different strokes for different folks. But, yeah, the Post is garbage.

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02-10-2013, 12:54 PM
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jdr016
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Originally Posted by crashthenet View Post
No matter how true it is?
Plenty of people disagree with him. Pierre Lebrun and Barry Melrose to name two. It's ultimately a matter of opinion.

Also, you should look up studies they have done on the credibility of "news" articles that come from the New York Post.

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02-10-2013, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
A-****ing-Men. Larry Brooks gets it/nails it.

People need to read the entire part on the Islanders. It should be a sticky at the top of the forum.

It is too bad Staple can't call out the Islanders like this without being locked out by the team.
Perhaps because the MSG is paying the Isles to have them on and they happen to own the Newsday as well.

I think the comedy of salary cap moves in the last 2 years stems all the way back from 1985.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ease-till-2015

"legal experts say the lease can't be broken by paying off the remaining years because the prohibition, written as part of the 1985 lease and upheld by a Nassau State Supreme Court justice in 1998, says the team's presence on Long Island is what's important."

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/19/sp...sles-sale.html

But Gutkowski insisted that the team needed all revenue from Islanders games to survive. ''That wasn't the case in 1979 when the lease was signed, but it is the case in 2000,'' he said. ''SMG is holding a gun to the Islanders that is threatening the team's future.''

Why didn't Pickett and Torrey start negotiating with NYC in the early 80s when Nassau rejected their request for a new arena back then?

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02-10-2013, 01:00 PM
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jdr016
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Get this: Thomas, Visnovsky, John Tavares, Matt Moulson, Martin Grabner, Kyle Okposo and Frans Nielsen combine for a full-season cap hit of $27.783 million. Yet because of contract structures and suspension, the Islanders actually are paying these seven players a sum of $16 million.
These are the rules! Take issue with the CBA, not the Islanders. There will come a time they are paying Tavares, Grabner, and Okposo MORE than their cap hit. Why not highlight that as well. Sorry, this is half ass reporting!

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Old
02-10-2013, 01:08 PM
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Satan'sIsland81
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Originally Posted by jdr016 View Post
These are the rules! Take issue with the CBA, not the Islanders. There will come a time they are paying Tavares, Grabner, and Okposo MORE than their cap hit. Why not highlight that as well. Sorry, this is half ass reporting!
Dude, would you just shut up already. You are the biggest Snow blowhard around. Those of us who think this team is run like a disgraceful circus that cares nothing about winning and only finding a way to put the cheapest product possible on the ice have every right to do so...5 straight (and probably headed for 6 and counting) bottom five finishes. There is no way to argue against that being a failure.

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Old
02-10-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Satan'sIsland81 View Post
Dude, would you just shut up already. You are the biggest Snow blowhard around. Those of us who think this team is run like a disgraceful circus that cares nothing about winning and only finding a way to put the cheapest product possible on the ice have every right to do so...5 straight (and probably headed for 6 and counting) bottom five finishes. There is no way to argue against that being a failure.
So I bring up some facts (you know, the CBA, a written document) and you resort to this. I have criticized Snow and this organization plenty over the years.

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Old
02-10-2013, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr016 View Post
These are the rules! Take issue with the CBA, not the Islanders. There will come a time they are paying Tavares, Grabner, and Okposo MORE than their cap hit. Why not highlight that as well. Sorry, this is half ass reporting!
Not half ass reporting at all.

Snow and Wang exploiting the CBA? Great.

Snow and Wang not using the extra money and cap space to bring in quality players. Not great.

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Old
02-10-2013, 02:06 PM
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The Islanders have yet to go into free agency with Brooklyn being their future home. It's easy for everyone to complain about Wang not spending money, but the fact of the matter is he's losing money on the Islanders, so it's not as cut and dry as just go out and sign anyone/everyone. The Islanders have tried in the recent past to acquire players only to be scorned (Paul Martin and ehroff just to name a few).

Everyone is crapping on Snow for acquiring Tim Thomas for what reason? If the islanders end up being out of the hunt don't you want them to trade pending UFA's who likely Wong resign (lubo?) for future assets? The Thomas trade allows them that ability. It also gives them the option to toll his contract if he so chooses to come back, which would then give the Isles a world class goalie. This move is a no lose for the islanders.

There are plenty of reasons to complain, this isn't one of them.

The Isles FINALLY have a stable future, so why don't we wait and give them a chance and see if they can actually lure in free agents that might push this team towards and actual playoff contender.

And as far as the bottom 5 finishes are concerned. The isles have been improving (at every level no less) in the last 5 years. They have more talent across the board at every single level. The fact that the Isles play in arguably the NHLs toughest division is the real reason we are always stuck in the bottom 5. We get to play perennial power houses who spend at the cap essentially every year (nyr, Philly, Pitt) and even Nj has been throwing money around lately. If the isles were In A different division where they didn't have to play those teams a combined 24 times you'd seem them actually compete for an 8th spot.

I'm not saying we don't have holes, we do, we have glaring needs. But we're MUCH better then we were 5 years ago, and I think we've improved every year.

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02-10-2013, 02:25 PM
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TRADITIONALLY ... when franchises move to new venues, they improve the roster and swing for the fences on free agents... Hopefully that's our plan..

I often thought Milbury was a combination of ... bad moves by him trying to be proactive .. as well as bad circumstances he was forced in to by various ownership groups, including Charles Wang..

Snow, since our last play-off appearance, I've felt is doing what he can to actually rebuild based on the pressure/orders from ownership to keep payroll ridiculously low.. even lower than the spirit of the rules allow..

So the commonality between Milbury and Snow is: Wang

The difference between Snow and Milbury and Snow (so far) is: Milbury's Unforced errors

I really don't see how Snow and the Islanders can lose with this Tim Thomas trade..

If Thomas wants to play:

1) We got Thomas for a 2nd round pick; or
2) We flip Thomas for > 2nd round pick

If Thomas doesn't want to play:

We lose nothing

Either way:

We gave ourselves some flexibility to make deals for this season's trade deadline without taking salary back..

This is basically the OPPOSITE of an unforced error.

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02-10-2013, 02:59 PM
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Brunomics
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I can't get over how big a deal this Thomas deal has become. It should be read as nothing to see here and if the guy comes back this team has an all world goaltender for a season(and don't give me his age as a factor he was a top 3 goalie last year).

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02-10-2013, 03:04 PM
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GusTheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
TRADITIONALLY ... when franchises move to new venues, they improve the roster and swing for the fences on free agents... Hopefully that's our plan..

I often thought Milbury was a combination of ... bad moves by him trying to be proactive .. as well as bad circumstances he was forced in to by various ownership groups, including Charles Wang..

Snow, since our last play-off appearance, I've felt is doing what he can to actually rebuild based on the pressure/orders from ownership to keep payroll ridiculously low.. even lower than the spirit of the rules allow..

So the commonality between Milbury and Snow is: Wang

The difference between Snow and Milbury and Snow (so far) is: Milbury's Unforced errors

I really don't see how Snow and the Islanders can lose with this Tim Thomas trade..

If Thomas wants to play:

1) We got Thomas for a 2nd round pick; or
2) We flip Thomas for > 2nd round pick

If Thomas doesn't want to play:

We lose nothing

Either way:

We gave ourselves some flexibility to make deals for this season's trade deadline without taking salary back..

This is basically the OPPOSITE of an unforced error.
I couldn't agree more on the Thomas trade.

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Old
02-10-2013, 03:41 PM
  #22
A Pointed Stick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr016 View Post
In fairness, Staple works for a real publication. The Post is the quintessence of the dumbing down of the media and ultimately, America.

I just watched something on ESPN where Lebrun and Melrose both liked the move from the Islanders perspective and loved it for Boston!

So different strokes for different folks. But, yeah, the Post is garbage.
It is hard for me to to take your post seriously when you pretty much state the Post is garbage and Newsday isn't. {MOD EDIT}

You also are suggesting you didn't read what Larry actually wrote. If you had read what he wrote, you wouldn't have brought in LeBrun and Melrose who pretty much agree with Larry, that the move itself was clever. Despite your dislike of the Post or Larry, I recommend reading the article you are attempting to skewer, then telling me without bias what you think, if Larry has a point or not.

One thing worth pondering that Brooks mentions: Revenue sharing. Why should other team's share revenue with Wang? The entire reason to have revenue sharing is to help the economically challenged clubs do a better job competing, which in the end helps all the clubs by making every game a better challenge. No more doormats held back by gate revenue. Wang isn't doing that though. He is pocketing his first revenue sharing check and putting none of it back into the roster. If he did the team would have more salary on the books, which would mean they wouldn't need to take a paper contract on so they could move more vets at the deadline for futures. It is entirely disingenuous of Wang to place this bag of crap of a roster on the ice while accepting a league check to become more competitive. It is no less ethically challenged than some dope on welfare using his government check for a hood ornament on his Lexus, as opposed to a bag of groceries for his kids when they are clearly starving.


Last edited by Homeland Security: 02-12-2013 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Edit
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Old
02-10-2013, 06:16 PM
  #23
blitzkriegs
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I can't get over how big a deal this Thomas deal has become. It should be read as nothing to see here and if the guy comes back this team has an all world goaltender for a season(and don't give me his age as a factor he was a top 3 goalie last year).
Nothing to see here if the Isles have not demonstrated a pattern over the past 4-5 years of playing or acquiring or signing its own players that have higher cap hits than actual cash pay outs.

I am going to predict that Snow will acquire now or in the offseason players of similar contracts (high cap hit, low cash payout) to continue the trend.

Fans want to believe its all about the building as to why players stay away. Wrong. That's the excuse the team uses and agents use bc it's an easy one to hide behind. The reality is that Wang loves fuzzy accounting over winning. That's why any marketable player wants no part of this organization. Until the owner changes, this what you got.

Wang is a horrendous owner on so many levels. Snow is just doing what he is told economically.

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02-10-2013, 07:41 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Nothing to see here if the Isles have not demonstrated a pattern over the past 4-5 years of playing or acquiring or signing its own players that have higher cap hits than actual cash pay outs.

I am going to predict that Snow will acquire now or in the offseason players of similar contracts (high cap hit, low cash payout) to continue the trend.

Fans want to believe its all about the building as to why players stay away. Wrong. That's the excuse the team uses and agents use bc it's an easy one to hide behind. The reality is that Wang loves fuzzy accounting over winning. That's why any marketable player wants no part of this organization. Until the owner changes, this what you got.

Wang is a horrendous owner on so many levels. Snow is just doing what he is told economically.
Charles Wang is a HERO!
seriously now, you have hit it right on the head. but the thing that surprises me most is how many fans truly believe we are heading in some sort of direction. and imagine what terrible state this team would be in if Tavares wasn't such an easy pick.
5 years into snows reign and we have to raid the waiver wire for players to start the season? that seems like a big red flag to me.
anyway all we can do is hope that rather or somebody buys part of this team when we go to brooklyn so we at least have a chance at winning

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Old
02-10-2013, 09:42 PM
  #25
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Wang pinches a penny so hard he pulls Lincoln's beard off.

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