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Hasek or Roy? (Part 2)

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Old
03-18-2005, 07:19 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Ruah was better than Bourque relatively speaking (3 Conney Smythes). 2 cups won singlehandedly.
And which two Cups were they ???

In 1986, the Habs were the NHL's 6th highest scoring team. The Habs were the higher seed in every round except the Finals. Mats Naslund's 19 points in 20 games helped a bit, as did Robinson's presence on the blueline, not to mention his 13 assists.

In 1993, the Habs went 8 consecutive playoff games scoring 4 or more goals. ( Habs finished with double figures in points in the post season including Keane, Bellows, Muller and Damphousse (23) with 15 or more points.

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Old
03-18-2005, 07:29 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Puddy
Dominik Hasek's peak as a goaltender is similar as Wayne Gretzky's peak... and Bobby Orr's peak...

Patrick Roy... is Ray Bourque to Hasek's Bobby Orr.
What great analogies!

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Old
03-18-2005, 10:33 AM
  #28
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Also to prove Roy was on great offensive teams which allowed him to go far in the playoffs and win then Hasek, here are both men's teams ranked on the number of goals they scored each full year of their career.

Hasek
93-94:11th on 26
94-95:18th on 26
95-96: tied for 14th on 26
96-97: 13th on 27
97-98: 17th on 26
98-99: 17th on 27
99-00: 20th on 28
00-01: 16th on 30
01-02: 2nd on 30- Stanley Cup


86-87: 19th in 21 teams- Stanley Cup
87-88: 9th in 21 teams-
88-89: 5th in 21 teams- lost in Final
89-90: tied for 12th in 21 teams
90-91: tied for 9th in 21 teams
91-92: 14th in on 22 teams
92-93: 9th on 24 teams- Stanley Cup
93-94: 10th on 26 teams
94-95: tied for 22nd on 26 teams
95-96: 2nd on 26 teams- Stanley Cup
96-97: 2nd on 27 teams
97-98: 6th on 26 teams
98-99: tied for 4th on 27 teams
99-00: 11th on 28 teams
00-01: 3rd on 30 teams-Stanley Cup
01-02: 18th on 30 teams
02-03: 5th on 30 teams

Hasek never had a team except his last year which was less then 11th in the league while Roy had 11 times. Roy twice won the cup when his team was 2nd in the league offensively and once 9th. That's not counting the defense he had in front of him too. So thats proof that Hasek was on lesser teams then Roy all his career except for the last one which he won the cup.

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Old
03-18-2005, 08:40 PM
  #29
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when you win the Cup and the conney smythe as a 20 year old - youve accomplished something very special. The guy was great from day one. And the day the Habs kept a rookie coach Tremblay over Roy is (along with Chelios for Savard) is the day it was downhill for many years for that franchise.

The story goes that one day in practice in Roy was giggling and Tremblay asked him why. Roy replied that Tremblays face looked funny when he talked.

Tremblay had no business coaching anyway - he was a radio guy, just like Houle was a Molson sales guy.

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Old
03-18-2005, 09:15 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
when you win the Cup and the conney smythe as a 20 year old - youve accomplished something very special. The guy was great from day one. And the day the Habs kept a rookie coach Tremblay over Roy is (along with Chelios for Savard) is the day it was downhill for many years for that franchise.

The story goes that one day in practice in Roy was giggling and Tremblay asked him why. Roy replied that Tremblays face looked funny when he talked.

Tremblay had no business coaching anyway - he was a radio guy, just like Houle was a Molson sales guy.
Yeah I'll admit Houle and Tremblay sucked but it also shows the attitude problem of Patrick.

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03-19-2005, 02:41 PM
  #31
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the bottom line is if you were a gm and had the choice to draft roy or hasek (since both are of similar age) 90% of gms would take roy over hasek with the knowledge roy would accomplish more than hasek in his career, case closed.

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03-19-2005, 02:42 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DRL
the bottom line is if you were a gm and had the choice to draft roy or hasek (since both are of similar age) 90% of gms would take roy over hasek with the knowledge roy would accomplish more than hasek in his career, case closed.
Oh sure you have any proof that 90 percent would choose Roy? Hasek has won a lot more trophies and has a lot better stats then Roy. All Roy has is a couple more stanley cups which resulted due to the great teams Roy was on.

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03-22-2005, 12:21 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Also to prove Roy was on great offensive teams which allowed him to go far in the playoffs and win then Hasek, here are both men's teams ranked on the number of goals they scored each full year of their career.

86-87: 19th in 21 teams- Stanley Cup
I don't plan on going through all of those... but 86-87 was Edm-Phi in the finals. Brian Hayward took the Habs to the 3rd round.

In 85-86, the Habs had the 6th ranked offense.

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Old
03-22-2005, 02:44 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Oh sure you have any proof that 90 percent would choose Roy? Hasek has won a lot more trophies and has a lot better stats then Roy. All Roy has is a couple more stanley cups which resulted due to the great teams Roy was on.
LOL

And here I was thinking that this was the entire point of playing hockey... to _win_ Stanley Cups.

Funny you choose to ignore the three Conn Smythes as well.

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03-22-2005, 03:45 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
LOL

And here I was thinking that this was the entire point of playing hockey... to _win_ Stanley Cups.

Funny you choose to ignore the three Conn Smythes as well.
It is hard to answer his Cups and Smythes without "what if's". If Hasek had better teams and played longer he PROBABLY would have had the Cups and Smythes. Well, he didn't and there isn't much more that can be said other than he played for some pretty bad teams. You can, though, look at what he did to win his team games (that's the point of playing in any sport), and his stats are simply better than Roy's, both in the regular seasons and the playoffs.

Does that mean if switched, Hasek would have had more success? Of course it doesn't prove it, but most reasonable men would think so.

This shouldn't even be called a debate because it is about as much a matter of opinion as anything can get, but for me it is Hasek every day and 10 times on Sunday... and I think he's a total dick who, in the end, screwed my favorite team over.

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:45 AM
  #36
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And ultimately who would you say was the better goalie?
I can't say.

Roy had more great years then Hasek even though within those years Roy was occasionally the yo-yo of goaltenders, following up a magnificent game with a disastrous one.

Hasek had a few seasons of unbelievable excellence, surpassing even the peak of Parent's back-to-back Vezina/Conn Smythe seasons.

The best I can say is...

As a G.M., I would draft Roy over Hasek every time, no question. In terms of a career, Roy was the more valuable player.

As a G.M., I would trade for Hasek over Roy, without question, in the mid-to-late nineties.

I personally think Roy and Hasek deserve equal billing, for they have been very different from each other and yet each - in their own way - has been the best.

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Old
03-22-2005, 08:59 AM
  #37
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I can only imagine what Hasek might have done if he had slacked off all regular season and actually tried to win in the playoffs too.
If he had slacked off during the regular season, odds are those Buffalo teams wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:18 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
LOL

And here I was thinking that this was the entire point of playing hockey... to _win_ Stanley Cups.

Funny you choose to ignore the three Conn Smythes as well.
I guess Parent who won two cups and 2 conn smythes was better then Hasek as well?

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:29 PM
  #39
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I would take Roy every day of the week and twice on sunday. I think he's the best goalie that ever played the game and I would pick him on my team before any other goalie.

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:31 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Habsfan 32
I would take Roy every day of the week and twice on sunday. I think he's the best goalie that ever played the game and I would pick him on my team before any other goalie.
What else can one expect of a Habs fan.

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:37 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
What else can one expect of a Habs fan.
Do you realize that when Patrick Roy was playing for the Habs I was too young to carefuly watxh hockey. I started following hockey closely when I was about 9 or 10 and that's when I started watching the Avs and Roy. I don't care if he would of played for the Bruins I still would of liked him because he was the best. It's not because he played for the Habs because I was too young at that time.

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by VanIslander
What else can one expect of a Habs fan.
Well I'm also a habs fan and have been since 1970 or something and have been following hockey since I was like 5 yet I still think Hasek was the better goalie.

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:42 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Well I'm also a habs fan and have been since 1970 or something and have been following hockey since I was like 5 yet I still think Hasek was the better goalie.
An objective voice!

Now we just need a Buffalo Sabres fan to say Roy was clearly the best.

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Old
03-22-2005, 06:50 PM
  #44
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Well, I go with Roy....easily.

To say that Hasek would have won the Conn Smythe and more Cups if he had better players around him is stupid. A hot/outstanding goalie is the great playoff equalizer....is it not? By everyone's accounts here, Hasek should easily have won at least 5 Cups, right? I mean, Giggy is a stiff with big pads and almost won a Cup against a future record holder. Hasek was the vicitm of Brett Hull being in the crease....he didn't whiff, did he? Yep, Hasek is the better regular season goalie. Weeeeee. :lol Where do they inscribe the "Dom Hasek had better stats in the regular season than Patrick Roy" on The Cup? Oh yeah, they don't. The only time Hasek got a sniff of The Cup was when Dallas let up in the series and became complacent. Oh wait, he won a Cup with the RedWings...a team that was full of what everyone will call superstars just like the Avs (unless you are talking about Forsberg because he is just a diver, right)were for Roy's Cups with the Avalanche. Shoulda.....coulda.....didn't.
Hasek didn't carry those Buffalo teams on his back to a Cup.By all accounts....he should have. Win 10 OT's in a row? Please....Hasek would be out with an injury and throw a fit before it got to that point.

Hell, I'd take Eddie The Eagle and most certainly Brodeur before Hasek as far as playoffs are concerned. Detroit was as motivated to win The Cup for Hasek as the Avs were to win it for Bourque. Roy went to NJ and shut them down and came back home to win his final Cup. What'd Hasek have to do....manage to stay upright on his skates?

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03-22-2005, 07:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
I guess Parent who won two cups and 2 conn smythes was better then Hasek as well?

Yes.
Why don't you just go run the numbers for all goalies during Roy and Hasek's careers because we all know that the numbers are all that matters. Poor Patrick...he might not even be in the top 10.

You play the game for those regular season numbers. I know that I heard SuperJoe telling Foppa that he'd rather be the all time leader in goals scored than win it all. I forgot, all sports are played for individual glory. That Cup thing at the end of the season...that's just a little festival at the end of the year where someone gets their name picked out of a hat and gets to have their name put on a pretty trophy. Nobody really cares about it because the regular season...that's where the action is. The drama....the trade deadline, the final run for the playoffs...if only these guys knew that they were getting all riled up for nothing. They mask their injuries during the playoffs for nothing. I mean, Footer tore his rotator cuff against NJ. He should have been on the bench because his regular season stats were already secured. I'll bet for a minute, he hesitated to go back on the ice because he had to compare his +/- to Nik Lidstrom's and see if he had the lead.What a goof on them.....they all have it bass ackwards. Was the Dom standing in the stands while Patrick was hoisting another Cup shouting......" Wait a minute, I had the better regular season stats....everyone should be paying attention to me....sniff, sniff, soooooobbbbbbb!!"

Brodeur will probably be the measuring stick soon enough anyway. Dangit, we can't use his numbers either because they are tainted. I'll bet when he surpasses St. Patrick, he'll be like " I wish my regular season numbers were as good as Hasek's" and will feel like he didn't accomplish much.
I know Brodeur doesn't count because he plays butterfly style and that would put him in the same league as Roy since Patty popularized it.

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03-22-2005, 07:24 PM
  #46
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Just by reading the first couple of lines I got the impression of what an ignorant, uninformed person you are. I'll answer later.

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03-22-2005, 07:38 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
LOL

And here I was thinking that this was the entire point of playing hockey... to _win_ Stanley Cups.

Funny you choose to ignore the three Conn Smythes as well.

Dangit RIAL, you have it all wrong. Roy had slightly lower average numbers in a couple of categories across his career, thus he is the lesser goalie. Wins? Who needs them? Cups? Who needs them? Conn Smythes...who needs them? The Avs are always defensive stalwarts and really trap alot. Thusly, Roy's numbers are probably actually skewed. He really is more like an .800/3.54 goalie if he plays on Buffalo. On the other hand.....if he played for NJ, he'd be a .999/.001 goalie and his numbers wouldn't count either and poor Brodeur is a schmuck of a goalie who isn't really as good as Hasek either....because his teams were too good like the Avs. See, whatcha gotta do is to find the one little niche Hasek is better in and, compare them to Roy and Brodeur's and say that their numbers are tainted. If Brodeur has an area that he is better in, it is because he was on a far superior team. If Roy has a better number in an area....likewise.
Now don't go dragging other goalies into this because if their numbers are better than Hasek's anywhere, that means that they were simply on better teams, too, and therefore unworthy of comparison because it is simply not fair. See how easy that is?

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Old
03-22-2005, 07:39 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Just by reading the first couple of lines I got the impression of what an ignorant, uninformed person you are. I'll answer later.
I'll be waiting......

Ohhhh, ignorant and uninformed.....ouch. Gotta go dig up some more numbers?
:lol

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03-22-2005, 07:46 PM
  #49
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....and I do agree that numbers do have to play into the equation somewhere. Roy had very similar numbers to Dom and more hardware that matters. Intangibles play into it,too. Dom simply has less of what matters most and similar numbers.....advantage-Roy. And Broduer, and Belfour and so on.

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Old
03-22-2005, 07:54 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colosilverado
Hasek didn't carry those Buffalo teams on his back to a Cup.By all accounts....he should have. Win 10 OT's in a row? Please....Hasek would be out with an injury and throw a fit before it got to that point.
Well, it's clear you weren't watching playoff hockey that year. Ask Ottawa fans about their 6 goal series against Hasek.

The Sabres 3rd leading scorer that year was Michael Grosek. That says enough.

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