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GAME #12 - Canucks vs. Wild - February 12th, 7:00 TSN

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02-12-2013, 06:44 PM
  #126
Vancouver_2010
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I disagree. Start any season and list the teams with a non-fantasy chance of winning each trophy. The list for the SC will be longer than the list for the PT.

Sustained excellence is always harder than getting hot and injury-free for a short period of time.
That is the general consensus of the public, no one is going to remember who won the president trophy in a few years, can you tell me who won the president trophy in 2000 without googling, i can, however, tell you it's the New Jersey Devil who won the cup, over Dallas Stars.

Anyways, sustained success during the regular season would actually mean much if we weren't constantly playing with teams like Calgary, Edmonton, Colorado, and even perhaps Minnesota this year as well. Too bad we don't have such luxury on playing such weak teams in the post-season, it exposes what AV is. An average coach with a great team to coach.

Back to topic, what do you think about the Wild's goalie tonight?

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02-12-2013, 06:46 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by asdfman View Post
I like to see it as an extremely watered down consolation prize in case the drought continues
Sure it'll be a nice little niche stat to mention in passing, and it's worth noting too, but compared to the Stanley Cup for us, it's like winning the division. Whatever, we've been there already. We only have 1 thing left to win. It's not easy, but nothing worth having ever did come easy.

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02-12-2013, 06:46 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Anyways, sustained success during the regular season would actually mean much if we weren't constantly playing with teams like Calgary, Edmonton, Colorado, and even perhaps Minnesota this year as well. Too bad we don't have such luxury on playing such weak teams in the post-season, it exposes what AV is. An average coach with a great team to coach.
It's hardly "constantly playing" when we only play a few games more than the rest of the Western Conference. For 2010-2011, even if we had lost the extra games, we'd still have had the PT.


In any case, no one disputes that the Stanley Cup is the ultimate prize. But objectively, the PT is a bit harder to get even if it's not the true objective.

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02-12-2013, 06:51 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Fairweather View Post
It's hardly "constantly playing" when we only play a few games more than the rest of the Western Conference. For 2010-2011, even if we had lost the extra games, we'd still have had the PT.


In any case, no one disputes that the Stanley Cup is the ultimate prize. But objectively, the PT is a bit harder to get even if it's not the true objective.
we played the rest of the division 6 times for each time, therefore we spend 24 out of 82 games playing weak opponent. That is a big advantage towards teams from Central division, where four out of five teams makes the post-season. We, however, is the only team that makes the playoffs in the northwest division.

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02-12-2013, 06:57 PM
  #130
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Yes yes sure. But the rest of the conference gets to play those same teams 4 times. Let's say we lost those games entirely (50% would be a fairer number but we'll stack it in your favor).

So -12 points. We're still ahead of second place in our conference San Jose in 2010-2011. So what's their excuse?


And what about the Eastern Conference? They have the equally weak SE division to beat up on. Why are they still 10 points behind Vancouver?

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02-12-2013, 07:00 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
This is a really well thought out reasoning. The canucks should be proud of their b2b presidents trophys but every NHL team is not put together to win the presidents trophy... The ultimate goal is the Stanley cup.
exactly, while a PT and a Cup may be equally hard to win, the Cup is more important and way more highly valued

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02-12-2013, 07:00 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
we played the rest of the division 6 times for each time, therefore we spend 24 out of 82 games playing weak opponent. That is a big advantage towards teams from Central division, where four out of five teams makes the post-season. We, however, is the only team that makes the playoffs in the northwest division.
Hasn't this been talked about to death when we won our first PT? I remember seeing the calculations that proved the Canucks would have won the title if they were in different. Something about having better record against Central division than Chicago and Detroit, and better record against the Pacific than SJ and Anaheim.

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02-12-2013, 07:01 PM
  #133
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Kes might be back in a week as per Big Bob

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02-12-2013, 07:04 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Fairweather View Post
Yes yes sure. But the rest of the conference gets to play those same teams 4 times. Let's say we lost those games entirely (50% would be a fairer number but we'll stack it in your favor).

So -12 points. We're still ahead of second place in our conference San Jose in 2010-2011. So what's their excuse?


And what about the Eastern Conference? They have the equally weak SE division to beat up on. Why are they still 10 points behind Vancouver?
There are three teams going to the playoffs for the Pacific division. We are still the only team in the northwest who advanced into the post-season in 2011, and the second best team in 2011 in northwest division is Calgary, which is 3 points out of a playoff spot.

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02-12-2013, 07:05 PM
  #135
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There are three teams going to the playoffs for the Pacific division. We are still the only team in the northwest who advanced into the post-season, and the second best team in 2011 in northwest division in Calgary, which is 3 points out of a playoff spot.
None of that is a response to what he said, in any way.

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02-12-2013, 07:05 PM
  #136
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Fun fact: If Buffalo scores enough on Anderson. Luongo has an opportunity to jump him for first overall in the league. He has Vezina power!

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02-12-2013, 07:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Toxic0n View Post
Hasn't this been talked about to death when we won our first PT? I remember seeing the calculations that proved the Canucks would have won the title if they were in different. Something about having better record against Central division than Chicago and Detroit, and better record against the Pacific than SJ and Anaheim.
Even if that is true, it still didn't change the fact the President trophy is easier to win the Stanley cup due to lesser competition. You don't get to see teams like the Oilers in the post-season.

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02-12-2013, 07:07 PM
  #138
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None of that is a response to what he said, in any way.
I only point out the obvious that San Jose has to go through a harder division than us to compete for the president trophy, which is a meaningless trophy to win.

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02-12-2013, 07:07 PM
  #139
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Kes might be back in a week as per Big Bob
He's a little late to the party. When I read the first five words of this post, though, I got excited as I thought you were saying he might be back tonight.

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02-12-2013, 07:08 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Fun fact: If Buffalo scores enough on Anderson. Luongo has an opportunity to jump him for first overall in the league. He has Vezina power!
Interesting, at both the fact Luongo is almost leading the league and Anderson is playing that well as a senator.

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02-12-2013, 07:08 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
I only point out the obvious that San Jose has to go through a harder division than us to compete for the president trophy, which is a meaningless trophy to win.
Which he countered by saying that the Sharks play the NW teams 4 times so if we lost our 2 extra games against each NW team, we would still be ahead of them. Playing in the NW had no part in us winning the President's Trophy in 10-11.

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02-12-2013, 07:16 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Which he countered by saying that the Sharks play the NW teams 4 times so if we lost our 2 extra games against each NW team, we would still be ahead of them. Playing in the NW had no part in us winning the President's Trophy in 10-11.
So we are a good team in the regular season, god job, we won a meaningless trophy.

And his stats is flawed, if we really have -12 points back, which would meant we can potentially have the same points as San Jose, and because we lose that 12 points, we might have scored less, which we might not win the trophy by score either.

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02-12-2013, 07:17 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Fun fact: If Buffalo scores enough on Anderson. Luongo has an opportunity to jump him for first overall in the league. He has Vezina power!
How much?

Im just quickly doing this but Anderson has a 1.49 GAA and Luongo has a 1.53 (according to the TSN app)
so if Luongo let's in less than Anderson today (unless they both get lit up) he should jump ahead in that regard.

Sv% is a lot tougher to gauge but Luongo could conceivably pass him although I wouldn't count on it.

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02-12-2013, 07:19 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
So we are a good team in the regular season, god job, we won a meaningless trophy.

And his stats is flawed, if we really have -12 points back, which would meant we can potentially have the same points as San Jose, and because we lose that 12 points, we might have scored less, which we might not win the trophy by score either.
I wouldn't say it's meaningless, it's just worth significantly less than a Cup. If the season means nothing than Hart Trophies, Vezinas, Richards ect would all be meaningless too. I value a Conn Smythe above the previously mentioned trophies, but it doesn't make them "worthless"

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02-12-2013, 07:21 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
So we are a good team in the regular season, god job, we won a meaningless trophy.

And his stats is flawed, if we really have -12 points back, which would meant we can potentially have the same points as San Jose, and because we lose that 12 points, we might have scored less, which we might not win the trophy by score either.
Uhh no. We would be tied with SJ in points at 105 if we lost 12 points, which is 6 losses. With that, and the worst case scenario (meaning 6 regulation losses), we would still be ahead in regulation wins (44 vs. 43), which is the tie breaker, is it not?

Appreciate what that team was, you'll probably never see it again.


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02-12-2013, 07:23 PM
  #146
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And his stats is flawed, if we really have -12 points back, which would meant we can potentially have the same points as San Jose, and because we lose that 12 points, we might have scored less, which we might not win the trophy by score either.
We had a Goal Differential of +77 vs San Jose's +35. In fact, second best was +51 from Boston (interesting that they were ones to beat us in the Finals). Nobody else was even close. (Also, Washington got to beat up the equally weak SE division and they still weren't even close to the Canucks).

No, this has already been analyzed but it seems you're too set in your idea to acknowledge it.

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02-12-2013, 07:24 PM
  #147
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Attachment 61069

Away.

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(tips hat to Pistol Pete)


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02-12-2013, 07:31 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
He's a little late to the party. When I read the first five words of this post, though, I got excited as I thought you were saying he might be back tonight.
I usually don't confirm something as 100% till it comes from him, no matter what the hockey news is. Sure he's slow sometimes, but reliable. I trust his sources.

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02-12-2013, 07:34 PM
  #149
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Will need some smelling salts to watch this.

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02-12-2013, 07:36 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
we played the rest of the division 6 times for each time, therefore we spend 24 out of 82 games playing weak opponent. That is a big advantage towards teams from Central division, where four out of five teams makes the post-season. We, however, is the only team that makes the playoffs in the northwest division.
And yet they put up a 111 point pace outside the division in 10/11. Plus the dominated stats wise.

Could it be that maybe they are actually a good team?

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