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Wild and Penguins.... no its not Seto

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Old
02-12-2013, 07:29 PM
  #76
Ragamuffin Gunner
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I'd do TK for PMB straight up.

If PMB gets hurt again, Tangradi, Jeff or Boychuk can take TK's time on the 3rd line.

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02-12-2013, 07:38 PM
  #77
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A dirty side of me wants Cal Clutterbuck in a Pens uniform so badly.

Cooke, Vitale, Glass, and Clutterbuck.

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02-12-2013, 07:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
A dirty side of me wants Cal Clutterbuck in a Pens uniform so badly.

Cooke, Vitale, Glass, and Clutterbuck.
There are very few players on the Wild roster that I would covet, but Clutterbuck would be close to the top of my list, obviously behind Parise who isn't going anywhere.

Forget Seto; forget PMB ... this is the guy Shero should target.

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02-12-2013, 07:56 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
He is. Apparently Seto's past (1 30 goal season, and 3 20 goal seasons) mean nothing as he's playing very poorly this year (no clue how true that is/isn't). And PMB is apparently playing just as bad, and with his concussion history and the fact that he's a UFA, he's worth next to nothing.
Just love this ...

Again, add when you don't have to.

To me, this is equal to Neal Huntington calling Brian Cashman inquiring about ARod (please, I'm not putting Seto or PMB in his class). The guy pales in comparison of what he once was; has injury issues and other issues (no Seto and PMB haven't done PEDs). So anyway, Neal still sees ARod as a talent despite obvious declines and thinks he is the .320 hitter, 30 homer, 100 RBI guy. Neal offers Cashman Travis Snider, his choice of Gerritt Cole, Jameson Taillon or Heredia and offers a second round pick in the draft. Get my drift?

Again, you offer what the player is worth based on what he is now, or even last year - not four years ago when he was a 30-goal scorer. His value isn't negative ... he is worth at best a second rounder or TK and a third. PMB is worth a flier, but not anything significant. You said earlier get him cheap. Cheap is a third rounder. Well, pending UFA that only played 97 games in three previous years and one that really isn't doing anything significant this year is worth what? His best year was six years ago - 13-50-63 in 81 games. Since then, on the major decline, even when healthy and that hasn't been often.

2nd, 3rd and TK is the package for these two. Nothing more and that is generous.


Last edited by OCPenguin: 02-12-2013 at 08:01 PM.
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Old
02-12-2013, 10:02 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post

2nd, 3rd and TK is the package for these two. Nothing more and that is generous.
I really don't see that working. While I think TK for PMB is about fair, I still think the Wild would want a bit more. If he stays healthy, he's better than TK. The risk for the Wild straight up would be him staying healthy.

So just saying they're equal, then you're offering a 2nd/3rd for Seto. Once again, just doesn't seem right to me. Yeah, his goal scoring has gone down and he isn't having the best season now, but he's still a regular 20 goal scorer. Going to have to give something to get him.

I don't know if Seto will continue to go down or not, but if he stays a consistant 20 goal guy, IMO, he's worth more than a 2nd and a 3rd.

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02-12-2013, 10:32 PM
  #81
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Setoguchi's last 20 goal season was almost 2-3yrs ago. He does have a good history of being a solid player, but look at Brad Boyes, should his value be more than it ended up being when he was bouncing around from team to team? It's what can you do for me now and Devin hasn't been able to do a whole lot consistently in the past 2 seasons.

It's weird discussing Setoguchi with Wild fans, some hold on to him like he's going to break out at some point, but it seems like he's just not a good fit with the team, others are ok dealing him away but don't want to while his value is low, the thing about that is that his value might drop even further, you either risk that or move him now while you can still get something.

Whether it's to the Pens or not, I'd say the same thing.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:10 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Setoguchi's last 20 goal season was almost 2-3yrs ago.
11/12 69 games, 19g (22.5g pace over 82 games)
10/11 72 games, 22g (25g pace over 82 games)
09/10 70 games, 20g (23g pace over 82 games)
08/09 81 games, 31g

Looks like a consistent 20 goal guy to me...

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:38 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
11/12 69 games, 19g (22.5g pace over 82 games)
10/11 72 games, 22g (25g pace over 82 games)
09/10 70 games, 20g (23g pace over 82 games)
08/09 81 games, 31g

Looks like a consistent 20 goal guy to me...
couldn't agree more. So the season he had 19 may not actually count as 20, but IMO it does. Boyes went from 40 some to the teens in 2 year (right?) then almost into single digits after that. While Seto had 30, he went/has stayed around 20.

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02-13-2013, 06:08 AM
  #84
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I really don't see that working. While I think TK for PMB is about fair, I still think the Wild would want a bit more. If he stays healthy, he's better than TK. The risk for the Wild straight up would be him staying healthy.

So just saying they're equal, then you're offering a 2nd/3rd for Seto. Once again, just doesn't seem right to me. Yeah, his goal scoring has gone down and he isn't having the best season now, but he's still a regular 20 goal scorer. Going to have to give something to get him.

I don't know if Seto will continue to go down or not, but if he stays a consistant 20 goal guy, IMO, he's worth more than a 2nd and a 3rd.
Seto's value is at an all time low. Why would Minnesota look to ship out a consistent 20-goal scorer as you say as rumors persist when THEY CAN'T SCORE? They have put alot of money in this year's team too boot. He is on the trade block in a little over a year time of hockey play on a team that can't score. To me, it speaks volumes. He isn't the player they thought they were getting from San Jose. Otherwise, they keep him because they need his supposed goal scoring.

PMB has played 97 freakin games in the previous three years. He has offensive skill when he plays, but that isn't too frequently. Even so, its not like he produces much (21-39-60). He is a UFA too boot. Sorry, pending UFA guys that don't produce on the ice when healthy with some offensive skill and guys at an all-time low value based on play don't yield much in return. You don't give up a nice package involving a top D prospect for this - no chance.

This is why a second round, a third and TK fits and its generous.

I choose not to see if Seto continues to go down, because if he does ...
Why reward Minnesota for his poor play with extra value based on what he was one year in San Jose four years ago? He averages 44 points per year and three of those years he was with SJ - Marleau, Thornton and Pavelski. That isn't impressive when you look at it that way.


Last edited by OCPenguin: 02-13-2013 at 06:31 AM.
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Old
02-13-2013, 07:28 AM
  #85
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I see the point about PMB and his injuries but you could say the same about Sid in terms of games played over the past few seasons. Not that they're anywhere comparable in terms of value or skill, but they've both spent a great deal of time injured and not playing and both are (as far as we know) recovered. Any player at any time is an injury risk.

I'm not strongly arguing for or against PMB because honestly I don't know enough about his game. It doesn't sound like the perfect fit for what the Pens seem to be looking for but trading a cap dump & a 2nd for him isn't exactly breaking the bank if the Pens don't see a lot of other attractive options. I'd just as soon they acquire Stempniak with that 2nd as was suggested in another thread but I wouldn't be angry if this trade happened.

As far as Seto goes, I think the Wild are at the point where they're between a rock and a hard place with him. They can either keep him and let him take up a roster spot hoping he turns things around or they can trade him at his lowest value ever and not get nearly the return they would like for him.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:09 AM
  #86
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Start by determining what a completely healthy PMB would be worth. Hes hurt so often its hard to even speculate I guess. But thats a start.

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02-13-2013, 10:33 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Seto's value is at an all time low. Why would Minnesota look to ship out a consistent 20-goal scorer as you say as rumors persist when THEY CAN'T SCORE? They have put alot of money in this year's team too boot. He is on the trade block in a little over a year time of hockey play on a team that can't score. To me, it speaks volumes. He isn't the player they thought they were getting from San Jose. Otherwise, they keep him because they need his supposed goal scoring.

Why reward Minnesota for his poor play with extra value based on what he was one year in San Jose four years ago? He averages 44 points per year and three of those years he was with SJ - Marleau, Thornton and Pavelski. That isn't impressive when you look at it that way.
It's funny.... as much as you hate Seto, you're the only one that keeps bringing up his 30g season. 20g scorers still are not cheap. Because like top 4 D, most teams do not have an abundance of top 6 forwards they're willing to trade.

But when ****'s not working, you identify why, then change things up. In Minny's case they have no secondary scoring. They also seem committed to allowing Granlund to grow... There's going to be growing pains when that happens. So now you have a shortened camp, with no preseason, and are 12 games in. And are playing with a rookie who'll experience his own learning curve for the NHL. No you don't want to make excuses, but reality dictates that things might not go as smoothly there as one would wish. That doesn't mean when put with skilled players that he can't go back to being a solid 20+ guy.

As for why they might consider moving him... there's a perceived need on the blueline. You can win playing defensive hockey. Rarely do teams win who play all offense with a crappy blueline.

There's no way that Minny will trade him for a 2nd + 3rd. His value IS higher than that.


Last edited by Riptide: 02-13-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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