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Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

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Old
03-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
I suspect that staying is working its way up on the probability scale. Though the team will likely stay with another coach at the helm! Tippett, has not renewed, and regrettably he will need to make a longer term career decision. That decision will likely be coaching free agency and a doubling of his salary with another more stable organization!
We dont know that with any certainty mesa. Perhaps he's sunk some roots in Phoenix, has family there, loves the place, willing to sign a one year extension or whatever? Same money or slight raise, takes his chances, whats one more season if he can stay even longer thereafter? But if there is a Coaching Casualty, the team stays & he goes, well, good for him. Someone elses luck I suppose. No lack of qualified replacements out there. No chains or links will be broken with the system he's instituted, has the team playing. Your suggestion is reminiscent of the angst created when Bryzgalov left. No worries. Carry on winning with Smith.... or not perhaps. He too needing to be re-signed. So maybe he's a goner. And once again, replacement in-bound. Just the way it is everywhere pretty much. Maybe you'd be interested in Roberto Luongo? Hell of a Cap hit mind ye'.

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03-01-2013, 04:11 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
If this saga ends up going another year, I am formally suggesting one of the upcoming thread titles to be "And the Beat Goes On" (Love and Rockets version)
Did they do that one too, or are you thinking of that lyric in their cover of "Ball of Confusion"?

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03-01-2013, 04:19 PM
  #628
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Did they do that one too, or are you thinking of that lyric in their cover of "Ball of Confusion"?
Thinkin' that's what TL meant

Edit/Add: Another Friday, another Agenda

http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...das/030513.pdf


Another workshop session with nothing of substantial substance. Except one:

City Manager's Report

The rest... behind closed doors


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 03-01-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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03-01-2013, 05:10 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
LA Dodgers, bought 420M in 2004, recently sold 2MM, OK from bankrupcy but still, this is a huge increase.
A lot of that was due to the explosion in rights fees for sports programming which is gold in the DVR era. Sports and news are the only things that are DVR proof.

The other day when we were talking about Judge Baum's ruling about how you can't use bankruptcy to overrun a franchise agreement and move a team wherever you want, I wonder if he had ruled the opposite way and let Ballsillie move the Coyotes to Hamilton, if some NY billionaire would have bid $3 billion for the team to move them back to Brooklyn.

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03-01-2013, 05:29 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Thinkin' that's what TL meant

Edit/Add: Another Friday, another Agenda

http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...das/030513.pdf


Another workshop session with nothing of substantial substance. Except one:

City Manager's Report

The rest... behind closed doors
Thanks for the link. A few items jumped out at me:
Arena Event – Staff has worked with a large group to coordinate four dates for an event at the Arena. The city will be meeting with Arena Management and the group this week to finalize the details, which will bring 200,000 visitors to the Arena and Westgate City Center and provide more than 10,000 room nights in the Westgate area, beginning in the summer of 2014
So the staff is programming the arena. $50MM AMF, even when factored over three years instead of two, still not providing much ROI.
The New Westgate (TNW) recently acquired portions of the Westgate mixed use project and has been actively marketing retail and office space in the Entertainment District, along with making landscape, hardscape and signage improvements on their property which enhances the tenant and visitor experience at Westgate.
TNW is an iStar / Credit Suisse entity. Since they couldn't get any bids at the foreclosure celebration seems like they're ready to try to bank Tanger traffic as the engine.
Tanger Outlets Westgate opened on November 15, 2012 and has generated slightly over $1M in sales tax for the city over the holiday season. Since the opening of Tanger Outlets, the amount of vehicular and pedestrian activity has greatly increased. As a result, TNW is desirous of making signage improvements to enhance pedestrian flow and visibility between the two retail environments. TNW is a joint venture partner with the outlet mall which is located on the south side of Glendale Avenue on the west side of 95th Avenue.
Maybe the realization is finally setting in. The sustainability of the center is not predicated on a non-viable hockey team but rather booking a variety of higher yield events. It's almost like someone finally took a PAB certified course.

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Old
03-01-2013, 06:01 PM
  #631
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It's almost like someone finally took a PAB certified course.
... whats that? PAB?

A Posterior Axillary Boost?
A Percutaneous Aspiration Biopsy?
A Payment Arrangement Broken?
A Performance Assurance Board?
A Prosecuting Attorneys Board?

A Progressive Adult Beverage?

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03-01-2013, 06:05 PM
  #632
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And I wonder how long Bettman would last in the NHL had to pay that ( or part of it at least ) back
I could see Gary asking PKP to make that payment.

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03-01-2013, 06:21 PM
  #633
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... whats that? PAB?
Planning Accreditation Board ("PAB"); for urban, city, regional planning degrees. I was making light of Glendale's unskilled approach to city planning which resulted in a billion dollars or so in unfunded debt and as recently as January had them attempting to toss a few hundred million more into the Coyotes sink hole.

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03-01-2013, 06:29 PM
  #634
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FWIW - A summary, compiled from the BPAC... and I leave to your own conclusion(s)

RFP (being made public) can be avoided if Beacon is indeed the negiator under contract with CoG. Clark says Glendale would set "objectives" to BSC, under the contract. If Beacon was not contracted by the City, Glendale would have to issue a public RFP.

Regarding Tindall's absence - any deputy attorney can write up the contract based upon Skeete's, or new City Manager's direction, with instruction from City Council. Also says eventually Council will have to publicly vote to make it official Beacon is the consultant/negotiator. Can be done retroactively... however Glendale:

Quote:
"does not have to reveal the terms of the consultancy contract. NO transparency is definately possible."
Regarding a new City Attorney - Council or Acting/Interim City Manager will appoint an interim city attorney. Interesting little bit regarding Kaites

Quote:
"Kaites had told CC prev. that investors had to realize profit within first 5 yrs or relocate."
Former Council Member's timeline

The local Sports Talk guys had this to say

Quote:
Talked to Matt Hulziser yesterday on phone. He is not involved in a new deal. Says team is "50/50" on staying.

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Old
03-01-2013, 07:59 PM
  #635
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Article from the hockey writers theorizing that the proposed realignment can save the Coyotes.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=march...&client=safari

Just using the average attendance from the past two seasons per visiting team saying losing a visit per year from high drawing teams like Det and Chi will be replaced and offset by more visits from Easters teams Flyers, Bruins, Pens etc....

Kind of a wild stab at numbers relying on attendence based on who's coming to town doesn't seem too compelling as reason for optimism but suggests that it helps then bottom line by $600'000 per year.

Every bit helps I guess

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Old
03-01-2013, 08:54 PM
  #636
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Link not working. Comes up "March Break Specials in Ontario". Coyotes playing out of Copps in Hamilton? Return of The Not So Prodigal Son Jim & his lovely wife Heidi Balsillie?

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03-01-2013, 09:01 PM
  #637
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We dont know that with any certainty mesa. Perhaps he's sunk some roots in Phoenix, has family there, loves the place, willing to sign a one year extension or whatever? Same money or slight raise, takes his chances, whats one more season if he can stay even longer thereafter? But if there is a Coaching Casualty, the team stays & he goes, well, good for him. Someone elses luck I suppose. No lack of qualified replacements out there. No chains or links will be broken with the system he's instituted, has the team playing. Your suggestion is reminiscent of the angst created when Bryzgalov left. No worries. Carry on winning with Smith.... or not perhaps. He too needing to be re-signed. So maybe he's a goner. And once again, replacement in-bound. Just the way it is everywhere pretty much. Maybe you'd be interested in Roberto Luongo? Hell of a Cap hit mind ye'.
Tippet was finishing up his final year of the contract Dallas was paying him when he was offered the job in Phoenix. And he took it knowing full well the franchise may not be there in the long run.

So for anyone to think that Tippett would not renew because the team is still in limbo is blowing a lot of air. Tippett will coach wherever he wants or wherever he is wanted if it meets his criteria..... including QC if it came to that.

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03-01-2013, 09:14 PM
  #638
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Link not working. Comes up "March Break Specials in Ontario". Coyotes playing out of Copps in Hamilton? Return of The Not So Prodigal Son Jim & his lovely wife Heidi Balsillie?
OK, let's try take 2

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-real...Hockey+Writers)

If it doesn't work, no biggie. Looks like a rearranging of numbers based on the proposed new normal.

Guess the Bulldogs lease new wasn't they only thing of the Hammer

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03-01-2013, 09:14 PM
  #639
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Tippet was finishing up his final year of the contract Dallas was paying him when he was offered the job in Phoenix. And he took it knowing full well the franchise may not be there in the long run.
Maybe mesas' related to Dave Tippett, a neighbour or whatever? Seems to be emotionally involved, very passionate about it. Thats a good thing. The Coyotes could use more fans like that. I mean, imagine... caring about a Coach's happiness, his future with the organization, possible loss thereof that much? Restores my faith in people. Enervating.

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03-01-2013, 09:32 PM
  #640
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Maybe mesas' related to Dave Tippett, a neighbour or whatever? Seems to be emotionally involved, very passionate about it. Thats a good thing. The Coyotes could use more fans like that. I mean, imagine... caring about a Coach's happiness, his future with the organization, possible loss thereof that much? Restores my faith in people. Enervating.
maybe its something like that!

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03-01-2013, 09:32 PM
  #641
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OK... If it doesn't work, no biggie. Looks like a rearranging of numbers based on the proposed new normal... Guess the Bulldogs lease news wasn't they only thing of the Hammer
Oh ya, thats right too. The Bulldogs. Whoop-dee-doo. Not there yet my friend, but we'll (Hamilton) arrive soon enough.... and yes, that link worked. Thanks.... bit odd huh? Seems the Canucks are a consistently good draw, the Rust Belt Teams. LA. Yet you have these weird spikes with what you wouldnt imagine anyone would want to bother with. Consistently inconsistent. Frankly, I dont know that just Realignment is the answer, and not only for the Coyotes. I guess Im a Heretic, but I just think there are far too many Regular Season games played everywhere, an 82 game schedule (plus pre-season & Playoffs of course), the Calendar running way too long. I could go on & on, but short version, if they made it more of an "event" and more "important", the regular season games, systemic problems fixed. Less cash, less gate sure, but a better product, much more exclusive, demand for tickets & PPV, ratings & as a result advertising revenues actually higher as a result.

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Old
03-01-2013, 09:52 PM
  #642
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maybe its something like that!
Excellent! Then your aware that that Mans commitment & performance, literally 24-7-365, his love & dedication for the game, players & Arizona is not to be questioned? The absolute H.E.L.L. the leagues put him & Maloney through over the past 3yrs?... its a wonder they have any hair left! Havent developed serious drinking & substance abuse problems! Maloney bringing in the Hanson brothers as a 4th line checking unit at like 63yrs of age in order to draw some lookee loo's! Tipper there goin full-on Reggie Dunlop, marriages dissolving! Nice to know your "there" for the guy mesa. Im now convinced he'll sign an extension, if but for a year, out of loyalty, charity, optimism. Thank you my friend. Keep your head up & stick on the ice eh? Were rootin for ya.

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03-02-2013, 07:49 AM
  #643
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Did they do that one too, or are you thinking of that lyric in their cover of "Ball of Confusion"?
AHA! Yea, that's name of the song-"the beat goes on" is part of the lyrics, but that's the song title, so you and Killion can have a good ol laugh at at me

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03-02-2013, 08:35 AM
  #644
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Thanks for the link. A few items jumped out at me:
Arena Event Staff has worked with a large group to coordinate four dates for an event at the Arena. The city will be meeting with Arena Management and the group this week to finalize the details, which will bring 200,000 visitors to the Arena and Westgate City Center and provide more than 10,000 room nights in the Westgate area, beginning in the summer of 2014
So the staff is programming the arena. $50MM AMF, even when factored over three years instead of two, still not providing much ROI.
The New Westgate (TNW) recently acquired portions of the Westgate mixed use project and has been actively marketing retail and office space in the Entertainment District, along with making landscape, hardscape and signage improvements on their property which enhances the tenant and visitor experience at Westgate.
TNW is an iStar / Credit Suisse entity. Since they couldn't get any bids at the foreclosure celebration seems like they're ready to try to bank Tanger traffic as the engine.
Tanger Outlets Westgate opened on November 15, 2012 and has generated slightly over $1M in sales tax for the city over the holiday season. Since the opening of Tanger Outlets, the amount of vehicular and pedestrian activity has greatly increased. As a result, TNW is desirous of making signage improvements to enhance pedestrian flow and visibility between the two retail environments. TNW is a joint venture partner with the outlet mall which is located on the south side of Glendale Avenue on the west side of 95th Avenue.
Maybe the realization is finally setting in. The sustainability of the center is not predicated on a non-viable hockey team but rather booking a variety of higher yield events. It's almost like someone finally took a PAB certified course.
I agree. So far all I've seen from Coyote fans is anecdotal evidence that Westgate is a ghost town on the nights the Coyotes aren't playing. I'm not saying they're dishonest but I find it very hard to believe that the fate of Westgate depends on the approx 12-13K fans the Coyotes bring in 45 nights a year.

If the Coyotes leave I believe there will early struggles at Jobing arena but with competent management and aggressive promotion I think they could get enough events to make a go of it. It would certainly be better than paying a hockey team $15M/year.

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03-02-2013, 08:40 AM
  #645
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I agree. So far all I've seen from Coyote fans is anecdotal evidence that Westgate is a ghost town on the nights the Coyotes aren't playing. I'm not saying they're dishonest but I find it very hard to believe that the fate of Westgate depends on the approx 12-13K fans the Coyotes bring in 45 nights a year.

If the Coyotes leave I believe there will early struggles at Jobing arena but with competent management and aggressive promotion I think they could get enough events to make a go of it. It would certainly be better than paying a hockey team $15M/year.
I have never understood this logic either. So they are saying that the 40-45 some odd nights of Coyotes games is enough to sustain an entire restaurant/pub/retail complex out of 365 days of the year (366 in leap years ). I just can't see how this business model was ever considered viable to anyone with half a brain.

But then again we are talking about the COG and the NHL here.


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03-02-2013, 09:14 AM
  #646
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Excellent! Then your aware that that Mans commitment & performance, literally 24-7-365, his love & dedication for the game, players & Arizona is not to be questioned? The absolute H.E.L.L. the leagues put him & Maloney through over the past 3yrs?... its a wonder they have any hair left! Havent developed serious drinking & substance abuse problems! Maloney bringing in the Hanson brothers as a 4th line checking unit at like 63yrs of age in order to draw some lookee loo's! Tipper there goin full-on Reggie Dunlop, marriages dissolving! Nice to know your "there" for the guy mesa. Im now convinced he'll sign an extension, if but for a year, out of loyalty, charity, optimism. Thank you my friend. Keep your head up & stick on the ice eh? Were rootin for ya.
I think you are right K! He has taken a huge liking to the area and, built a new home, one more year wont hurt him! But you have to ask, if the team stays, for what would likely be a lame duck year, how much financial and emotional support is the league going to give him? His coaching career is finite, and does another year of beating his head against the wall with limited resources, sparse crowds and potentially a losing record factor in?

My guess is that the remaining games will have an impact on his decision, if the Coyotes crap the bed and finish out of the P/o`s, then he could elect to take another job. If they finish strong, another year would be an easier decision. In the meantime, I like the idea of a Hanson brothers revival to Jobing! Talk about sending in the clowns! Reminds me of a beating i took at the hands of jack Carlson in my playing days! Cheers, too old to still keep my head up and my diapers on at the same time!

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03-02-2013, 10:31 AM
  #647
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If I was Tippett, I wouldn't want to go to Quebec city either. Not because of the city itself, it is beautiful. Not because of french people, most speak english and most everyone is very friendy, but because of the huge taxes.

However, I'd rather coach in QC than being jobless at jobing.

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03-02-2013, 10:32 AM
  #648
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If I was Tippett, I wouldn't want to go to Quebec city either. Not because of the city itself, it is beautiful. Not because of french people, most speak english and most everyone is very friendy, but because of the huge taxes.

However, I'd rather coach in QC than being jobless at jobing.
Now, theres a good reason. Congrats!

And guess what? Despite they found oil in the province, they will find a way to increase those taxes. We are so lucky here...

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03-02-2013, 11:27 AM
  #649
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He is not French-Canadian, does not speak french, is an American citizen, proud of that, wife prefers the US!
Mesa look at the history of the Nordiques they had several coaches that were not Frenc Canadian. If he can learn a few words/sentences, people in Quebec city will love it...Just remember Mark Crawford in the early 90's. I would take him in a heartbeat in Quebec. Of course he is proud to be an american guy but there is a lot of proud Canadian coaches that works within the US. Perhaps I think Patrick Roy is waiting for the offer from Quebecor to be the first coach. Time will tell but as we speak the Coyotes are still in Phoenix.

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03-02-2013, 11:36 AM
  #650
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I agree. So far all I've seen from Coyote fans is anecdotal evidence that Westgate is a ghost town on the nights the Coyotes aren't playing. I'm not saying they're dishonest but I find it very hard to believe that the fate of Westgate depends on the approx 12-13K fans the Coyotes bring in 45 nights a year.

If the Coyotes leave I believe there will early struggles at Jobing arena but with competent management and aggressive promotion I think they could get enough events to make a go of it. It would certainly be better than paying a hockey team $15M/year.
The arena will likely struggle regardless because countless academic econometric studies have already shown that US cities find no evidence of positive economic benefits associated with sports facility construction. There may be district level benefits but there is no evidence of any positive impact beyond that.

That's why guys like Hocking exist. Consultants aren't bound by peer review and other legitimate academic controls. So, they use faulty models and mythical projections to create reports of huge benefits. On occasion, they get sued for fraud like Hocking did, but for the most part they just collect a sizable check for massaging data to fit into a predetermined result. The uninformed circulate the "economic benefits report" as the holy grail. So I don't consider the fans to be dishonest at all. They are passionate about a team so they understandably have a cognitive bias on the subject to begin with. Then they are bombarded with the Pollack/Hocking report as "evidence" of how integral the team is to the equation. Also, they are generally not experienced in analysis of public-private development projects.

Qualified guys like BarneyG and Othmar took about 10 seconds to debunk the Pollack/Hocking report. I don't want to misrepresent their thoughts or speak for them so I refer to the archive for their posts on the veracity of the report. It definitely makes you question the motives of individuals like Beasley, Lynch, Colson, and Tindall who are also seemingly qualified to analyze the report for it's merit.

Westgate isn't likely to turn into dust if the Coyotes cease to operate in the arena. That's just rhetoric. It's very telling that the support for a Coyotes AMF centers on the bullcrap Pollack report and some hollow scare tactic rhetoric about a ghost town shopping center. When there is no legitimate data to support a position, I guess you fling the closet pile of excrement and hope it sticks.

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