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Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

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Old
03-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #651
Killion
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
AHA! Yea, that's name of the song-"the beat goes on" is part of the lyrics, but that's the song title, so you and Killion can have a good ol laugh at at me
... stick with the original's, wont go wrong TL. Ball of Confusion by the Temptations instead of Love & Rockets please. Not real big on covers.

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Reminds me of a beating i took at the hands of jack Carlson in my playing days!
Oh Geez Coach... Black Jack huh? The organist at the Met Centre in Minny used to launch into the theme to Jaws' whenever he stepped onto the ice. Had a bigger nose on him than Jimmy Durante, "The Schnozz" himself.

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03-02-2013, 12:54 PM
  #652
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When there is no legitimate data to support a position, I guess you fling the closet pile of excrement and hope it sticks.
Pretty much, fictions crafted to appear as fact. Extremely unfortunate as the only way out of a mess of this magnitude all along has been through honesty and objectivity. Using real hard facts & numbers. Due diligence in hiring consultants who will provide objective & arms length reports without influence from anyone whatsoever in pre-determining outcomes. Get real. You absolutely do not employ anyone who's record & reputation is already tarnished, nor should they (if true) be employing the services of Beacon, just a mess of insider connections & nepotism that raises more questions than providing answers, solutions. Nothing theyve thrown at the wall and at great expense has stuck nor will it. Corrupted upon conception, impossible to execute.

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03-02-2013, 01:06 PM
  #653
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Pretty much, fictions crafted to appear as fact. Extremely unfortunate as the only way out of a mess of this magnitude all along has been through honesty and objectivity. Using real hard facts & numbers. Due diligence in hiring consultants who will provide objective & arms length reports without influence from anyone whatsoever in pre-determining outcomes. Get real. You absolutely do not employ anyone who's record & reputation is already tarnished, nor should they (if true) be employing the services of Beacon, just a mess of insider connections & nepotism that raises more questions than providing answers, solutions. Nothing theyve thrown at the wall and at great expense has stuck nor will it. Corrupted upon conception, impossible to execute.
This whole saga has been a litany of obfuscations and deliberately obtuse behaviour by Beasley, Tindall, a few politicians, and their "consultants" (especially TL Hocking). For me, the nadir was when it was revealed by council members (including Joyce Clark) that Beasley had deliberately fed them Hocking's parking analysis, which had been hastily put together with a simple Excel spreadsheet, while hiding from city council the analysis by the more reputable firm with expertise in parking studies because it didn't support the financial rationale for the $100 million parking deal with Hulsizer. That should have been the end of a few careers, and a wake-up call to everyone about how this file was being handled. Instead, the same group was allowed to continue, throwing Glendale's budget into disarray, buying more time for the NHL, without actually resolving the ownership issue.

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03-02-2013, 01:07 PM
  #654
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Oh ya, thats right too. The Bulldogs. Whoop-dee-doo. Not there yet my friend, but we'll (Hamilton) arrive soon enough.... and yes, that link worked. Thanks.... bit odd huh? Seems the Canucks are a consistently good draw, the Rust Belt Teams. LA. Yet you have these weird spikes with what you wouldnt imagine anyone would want to bother with. Consistently inconsistent. Frankly, I dont know that just Realignment is the answer, and not only for the Coyotes. I guess Im a Heretic, but I just think there are far too many Regular Season games played everywhere, an 82 game schedule (plus pre-season & Playoffs of course), the Calendar running way too long. I could go on & on, but short version, if they made it more of an "event" and more "important", the regular season games, systemic problems fixed. Less cash, less gate sure, but a better product, much more exclusive, demand for tickets & PPV, ratings & as a result advertising revenues actually higher as a result.
The problem with that is cities put up a lot of money for arenas that are supposed to have 45 preseason and regular season games. Throughout this Coyotes discussion you have repeatedly pointed out the plight of all those businesses in Westgate that rely on the Coyotes. Wouldn't all of them be hurt be a schedule of 30 home games? 18 teams are selling out every game. All but 4 are at over 90% of capacity. One of those 4 are the Islanders and they are going to Brooklyn. The others are Colorado but they are in a rebuild, Columbus just got an infusion of cash from the county and Nationwide Insurance. That leaves Phoenix. Their solution can be found here:

http://www.amjcampbell.com/

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03-02-2013, 01:11 PM
  #655
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Quebec is about as different as Arizona as it gets. Cold, humid, north, east, french, high taxes, people actually loving hockey and willing to pay to see a game.

I could see why someone would not want to move from Arizona to QC. But it has nothing to do with being narrow minded. As if QC was so great anyone not wanting to go there was being narrow minded. I would never want to move to Toronto at all. Am I narrow minded? Is being narrow minded the only reason why people would refuse to move?

Plus it's only Mesamonster's feeling. The guy hasn't said anything bad (publicly at least) about QC yet. And if the Yotes move and he doesn't want to come, that's he's prerogative. Isn't it?


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 03-02-2013 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Removed response to deleted post
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03-02-2013, 01:22 PM
  #656
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Tippet was finishing up his final year of the contract Dallas was paying him when he was offered the job in Phoenix. And he took it knowing full well the franchise may not be there in the long run.

So for anyone to think that Tippett would not renew because the team is still in limbo is blowing a lot of air. Tippett will coach wherever he wants or wherever he is wanted if it meets his criteria..... including QC if it came to that.
But he took the job not having another job and not knowing if he would get another job. If he hits the free agent market, based on his work the last 4 years, one would think he could land in a more stable situation. There is a difference between your options being no job vs 4 year contract in and unstable situation and your options being a more stable situation vs unstable situation.

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03-02-2013, 01:50 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
For me, the nadir was when it was revealed by council members (including Joyce Clark) that Beasley had deliberately fed them Hocking's parking analysis, which had been hastily put together with a simple Excel spreadsheet, while hiding from city council the analysis by the more reputable firm with expertise in parking studies because it didn't support the financial rationale for the $100 million parking deal with Hulsizer.
Ya, just mindblowing, I mean, what can you really even say about such duplicity & malfeasance? Put everything on the table, and just stop already playing everyone. Pathetic. Syd Barrett projections. Shades of Bre-X. Salting the mine. Total insanity & beyond obvious.

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Wouldn't all of them be hurt be a schedule of 30 home games?... That leaves Phoenix....
Yes good points, however, if you have fewer dates with 95-100% capacity, people having greater disposable income as they havent maxed out in buying tickets to a lot of meaningless games, they'll spend more in & around Westgate, on merchandising etc. Id rather have fewer dates with a far greater take, quality over quantity any day. Its radical I know, as the entire model is built on & around those 41+++ home dates. Obviously the CBA would have to be revisited, broadcast contracts, the whole shootin match, but hey, thats why these guys are paid the big bucks. Just do it. Get er' done...

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03-02-2013, 02:03 PM
  #658
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There is a difference between your options being no job vs 4 year contract in and unstable situation and your options being a more stable situation vs unstable situation.
Well sure, thats one way to look at it, practical. But really, is there "true stability" in the ranks of Coaching at the NHL level? Hired to be fired seems to the motto amongst that fraternity. So does he strike out & sign a lucrative deal elsewhere while his irons hot based on the past 4 seasons performances or like Shane Doan take his chances in Phoenix? We dont know, and whether he stays or goes, any of the players, like Mike Smith or whomever rather moot, a sidebar to the real issues swirling. Pro hockey players, Coaches & GM's, all of them Mercenaries. Just the nature of the game & business thereof.

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03-02-2013, 02:41 PM
  #659
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Stepping in here...

I understand that when initially reading Mesa's post regarding Tippett that it would be conceivably a dig against QC. I do not believe that was his intent but we have seemingly found ourselves in a back and forth here.

Some posters have shown tempered emotion in responding, others have not. What I ask of you all is, let's think about what we post, before we post, yet conversely let's exude a little open-mindedness as well. If a post is blantantly inflammatory, trust it'll get deleted.

Appreciate it guys!

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03-02-2013, 04:32 PM
  #660
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Yes good points, however, if you have fewer dates with 95-100% capacity, people having greater disposable income as they havent maxed out in buying tickets to a lot of meaningless games, they'll spend more in & around Westgate, on merchandising etc. Id rather have fewer dates with a far greater take, quality over quantity any day. Its radical I know, as the entire model is built on & around those 41+++ home dates. Obviously the CBA would have to be revisited, broadcast contracts, the whole shootin match, but hey, thats why these guys are paid the big bucks. Just do it. Get er' done...
How many season ticket holders are really going to all 41 games. Its not the same 17-18K people at every game. The so called less desirable games are good opportunities for other fans to go games. The league can't cater to just the 18K who can buy full season packages. The Tuesday night game against Columbus might be the only chance for some families to go to a game all season.

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03-02-2013, 08:52 PM
  #661
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But he took the job not having another job and not knowing if he would get another job. If he hits the free agent market, based on his work the last 4 years, one would think he could land in a more stable situation. There is a difference between your options being no job vs 4 year contract in and unstable situation and your options being a more stable situation vs unstable situation.

I think I said that, but I was more generalistic. If the Coyotes were to be moved to QC and the offer was good enough I think he'd go.

And If he got a better offer from another team he'd go there.

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03-03-2013, 02:03 AM
  #662
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I think I said that, but I was more generalistic. If the Coyotes were to be moved to QC and the offer was good enough I think he'd go.

And If he got a better offer from another team he'd go there.
I don't get it. Why are people implying that an NHL coach wouldn't want to have an NHL head coaching job in Quebec City. That's ridiculous.

More ridiculous is the assumption a coach would go to any location other than QC. Does anyone really think coaches think that way? I'd guess that their #1 concern is their career - so they'd be more interested in the type of team they will get to coach (good team, more stability) and the type of contract they can sign ($, length and severance terms). There are only 30 head coaching jobs in the NHL - location is about the last on the list of concerns.

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03-03-2013, 02:31 AM
  #663
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I don't get it. Why are people implying that an NHL coach wouldn't want to have an NHL head coaching job in Quebec City. That's ridiculous.

More ridiculous is the assumption a coach would go to any location other than QC. Does anyone really think coaches think that way? I'd guess that their #1 concern is their career - so they'd be more interested in the type of team they will get to coach (good team, more stability) and the type of contract they can sign ($, length and severance terms). There are only 30 head coaching jobs in the NHL - location is about the last on the list of concerns.
If they move to QC my gut feeling is Marc Crawford will be the coach. Not only because he coached the Nordiques but Roy will be the GM so I think that link will bring him back.

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03-03-2013, 02:39 AM
  #664
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The only reason that comes to mind was the Habs and Cunnyworth. He had a pretty rough time with the media and fans, or it was portrayed that way at least.

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03-03-2013, 08:03 AM
  #665
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Yes good points, however, if you have fewer dates with 95-100% capacity, people having greater disposable income as they havent maxed out in buying tickets to a lot of meaningless games, they'll spend more in & around Westgate, on merchandising etc. Id rather have fewer dates with a far greater take, quality over quantity any day. Its radical I know, as the entire model is built on & around those 41+++ home dates. Obviously the CBA would have to be revisited, broadcast contracts, the whole shootin match, but hey, thats why these guys are paid the big bucks. Just do it. Get er' done...
While I think there should be fewer games, it's not because I think there will be a great economic benefit to the areas around the arena. In the vast majority of situations, new stadiums/arenas do not bring in more economic activity to the area immediately surrounding the area. And the reason is quite simple, people don't go to those areas when there isn't an event. In the rare situation where it does bring great economic benefit, the arena/stadium will generally be privately financed.

Trying to marry a mall to an arena wasn't the best idea. A mall needs a pretty constant stream of customers to do well, even if there are peaks and valleys. An arena is only going to bring in customers about 1/3rd to 1/2th of the nights (and Jobing.com currently doesn't even do that). In addition, a mall really is a destination location itself, something that should draw enough customers on it's own. It really shouldn't need another destination location like an arena to be successful. If the arena were merely augmenting the mall that would be one thing, but if it is the demarcation line between success and failure, then the mall isn't working itself.

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03-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #666
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If they move to QC my gut feeling is Marc Crawford will be the coach. Not only because he coached the Nordiques but Roy will be the GM so I think that link will bring him back.
I don't know if he will be the coach, but he would be a very good candidate

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03-03-2013, 11:46 AM
  #667
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While I think there should be fewer games, it's not because I think there will be a great economic benefit to the areas around the arena. In the vast majority of situations, new stadiums/arenas do not bring in more economic activity to the area immediately surrounding the area. And the reason is quite simple, people don't go to those areas when there isn't an event. In the rare situation where it does bring great economic benefit, the arena/stadium will generally be privately financed.

Trying to marry a mall to an arena wasn't the best idea. A mall needs a pretty constant stream of customers to do well, even if there are peaks and valleys. An arena is only going to bring in customers about 1/3rd to 1/2th of the nights (and Jobing.com currently doesn't even do that). In addition, a mall really is a destination location itself, something that should draw enough customers on it's own. It really shouldn't need another destination location like an arena to be successful. If the arena were merely augmenting the mall that would be one thing, but if it is the demarcation line between success and failure, then the mall isn't working itself.

When you have a bubble-fueled economy, some of the normal restraints that would pop up when the cost of capital is real become suspended, easily dismissed. Risk should be the single biggest determinant behind the types of decisions of what/where to build. Developing to meet an existing market demand typically has a lower risk factor than developing where you're using a push strategy--- if you build it, they will come. The distortion of the market was quite high in this case when the real cost of risk was mitigated through public funding and the cheap cost of capital during the bubble economy days. I suppose it was a perfect storm in some ways, which would not be easily reproducible in a different [or current] economy.

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03-03-2013, 12:01 PM
  #668
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I don't get it. Why are people implying that an NHL coach wouldn't want to have an NHL head coaching job in Quebec City. That's ridiculous.

More ridiculous is the assumption a coach would go to any location other than QC. Does anyone really think coaches think that way? I'd guess that their #1 concern is their career - so they'd be more interested in the type of team they will get to coach (good team, more stability) and the type of contract they can sign ($, length and severance terms). There are only 30 head coaching jobs in the NHL - location is about the last on the list of concerns.
Location for a coach in Tippetts class is everything! Think about it, he is a veteran coach with gaudy winning percentages, a players coach, and a coach with vision regarding his team style etc. He has attracted many players to the desert, who simply came to play for him and his coaches (ie: mike smith). A resume like his is a scarce commodity amongst the NHL coaching ranks. He knows this and because of this knowledge, he can take his time to pick and choose the locations he would prefer to coach in! Don`t kid yourself, location, location, location is very important to someone who has options. While QC would be a terrific market, it is in Canada, it is french speaking, cold weather, and like Montreal predisposed to hiring a coach who is able to converse in french with the press! Tips wife likes the warm weather ( Houston, La, Dallas, Phoenix)! Not saying they will end up in a warm weather city next time around! My guess is that he ends up in either Colorado, or Minnesota. Both currently have coaches, but Colorado looks like they will need new leadership and Minny? Who knows how well Yeo will manage the new payroll heavy Wild?

Oh yeah, Why Minnesota, being it is a cold weather city? He has family there and a home just north of the cities!

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03-03-2013, 12:03 PM
  #669
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This whole saga has been a litany of obfuscations and deliberately obtuse behaviour by Beasley, Tindall, a few politicians, and their "consultants" (especially TL Hocking). For me, the nadir was when it was revealed by council members (including Joyce Clark) that Beasley had deliberately fed them Hocking's parking analysis, which had been hastily put together with a simple Excel spreadsheet, while hiding from city council the analysis by the more reputable firm with expertise in parking studies because it didn't support the financial rationale for the $100 million parking deal with Hulsizer. That should have been the end of a few careers, and a wake-up call to everyone about how this file was being handled. Instead, the same group was allowed to continue, throwing Glendale's budget into disarray, buying more time for the NHL, without actually resolving the ownership issue.
Yeah, but I guess it's all in what you're trying to accomplish. From the city perspective, it looks like they wanted to make an economic case for the Coyotes. But in order to do that, a lot data sets have to be misrepresented. That's why there are critically flawed assumptions in Pollock/Hocking, Beasley/Lynch/Colson presentations, Skeete Sheet, etc. Literally, the only way to make an economic case for the Coyotes is to create a bunch of moonbeam scenarios and hope nobody notices.

As to why the city was compelled to fabricate an economic benefit, perhaps it was to avoid admitting that investing in the NHL business model in Glendale was a terrible mistake. Scruggs and Lieberman were the only two on the legacy council that ever had the courage to look at actual data rather than Hockified reports. (Alvarez voted against things but she never appeared to actually comprehend any of the information that was being presented.)

Now, it seems that the new council majority may be done pretending that the Coyotes are some valuable economic engine that must be subsidized at any cost. Perhaps that's because it largely wasn't them who voted to build the thing in the first place. It seems a bit easier to look at things as they actually are when you're not simultaneously burdened by trying to justify how you got there.

That is going to be a shock to the system of those who would rather continue perpetuating the myth that a heavily subsidized Coyote franchise is the highest and best use of the arena. Since there is absolutely zero evidence to support that position, they turn to rhetoric like "Westgate will be a ghost town without the Coyotes". Of course that is also untrue, but if you've come this far pretending the Coyotes are a positive and vital contributor to the economy, you might as well go all the way to proclaiming Mordor in Glendale without the team.

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03-03-2013, 12:22 PM
  #670
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<snip>
A resume like his is a scarce commodity amongst the NHL coaching ranks. He knows this and because of this knowledge, he can take his time to pick and choose the locations he would prefer to coach in! Don`t kid yourself, location, location, location is very important to someone who has options. <snip>

You know what's more scarce, mesa? NHL head coaching jobs. There are 29 others, not counting the one he currently has.

I'm not sure how many options you see presenting themselves right as he needs a new job. Probably fewer than a handful of teams.

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03-03-2013, 02:25 PM
  #671
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You know what's more scarce, mesa? NHL head coaching jobs. There are 29 others, not counting the one he currently has.

I'm not sure how many options you see presenting themselves right as he needs a new job. Probably fewer than a handful of teams.
And each of those teams will likely look at his skill set and resume and each covet the opportunity to hire him! In essence , he is the ultimate FA, if the team stays , sign for another year, or weigh your options at the end of this season. He has ultimate control, I sincerely doubt he will be unemployed going into next season.

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03-03-2013, 02:27 PM
  #672
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While I think there should be fewer games, it's not because I think there will be a great economic benefit to the areas around the arena. In the vast majority of situations, new stadiums/arenas do not bring in more economic activity to the area immediately surrounding the area. And the reason is quite simple, people don't go to those areas when there isn't an event. In the rare situation where it does bring great economic benefit, the arena/stadium will generally be privately financed.

Trying to marry a mall to an arena wasn't the best idea. A mall needs a pretty constant stream of customers to do well, even if there are peaks and valleys. An arena is only going to bring in customers about 1/3rd to 1/2th of the nights (and Jobing.com currently doesn't even do that). In addition, a mall really is a destination location itself, something that should draw enough customers on it's own. It really shouldn't need another destination location like an arena to be successful. If the arena were merely augmenting the mall that would be one thing, but if it is the demarcation line between success and failure, then the mall isn't working itself.
Ya, all excellent points Jim, however, it is in fact the very model upon which innumerable arenas & stadiums are built, the centre piece or Crown Jewel enjoined to retail, commercial & residential development. In some cases even in downtown urban settings, site specific to revitalize moribund areas. The Leafs, Habs, Winnipeg, Katz's plans in Edmonton, Hansens in Seattle, well, we could make stops just about everywhere, every state & province. Look at Hamilton's failure, built to secure an NHL franchise yes, but more importantly to serve as the anchor to revitalization & development of their downtown core. Wangs Lighthouse. The triangulations in Markham. Suburban settings, with a good parallel to Glendales vision being Ottawa, inconvenient location, Canadian dollar in free-fall, insolvency, hung on by their fingernails. Impossible to build stand-alone arenas/stadiums. Gone the ages of a Montreal Forum, Maple Leaf Gardens etc.

The malls & commercial spaces so to require anchor tenants in order to draw & maintain traffic 365. Beyond the AMC theatre at Westgate, before Tanger, absolutely nothing but a collection of independents, boutiques, no majors whatsoever. Combination of the economic meltdown, Ellmans "vision" and Glendales insistence that the joint be populated with such, not wanting to see it turn into a sort of industrial mile of big boxes not only pretentious but so too very foolish. A sort of Beverly Hills Rodeo Drive meets 5th Avenue in New York in Glendale. I mean honestly, what were they thinking? You need at least two or more major's, anchors to such a plan. UofP Stadium & Glendale Arena simply the hook's. When approved & built, projections for rapid development & economic development throughout the West Valley beyond promising.

Had the 04/05 Lockout not occurred less than a year after the arena opens preceding the sub-prime mortgage & market meltdowns, Ellmans inability to execute & crash, Moyes' inheritance of the franchise & Swifts decline, Gretzky unable to translate his brilliance from ice to bench to executive suites, Glendales inability to change on the fly and refusing to honestly face & deal with the problems in simply throwing cash & falsely crafted paper at the wall & hoping something stuck, big problems and so here we are. But if you tear it down, deconstruct, then ya, less games over a season better overall for everyone, the anchor destination retailers & service providers combined with the development & bookings of concerts, events, trade & consumer shows?.... away you go.

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03-03-2013, 03:08 PM
  #673
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And each of those teams will likely look at his skill set and resume and each covet the opportunity to hire him! In essence , he is the ultimate FA, if the team stays , sign for another year, or weigh your options at the end of this season. He has ultimate control, I sincerely doubt he will be unemployed going into next season.
Honestly mesa, this subject is all more "General NHL Talk" or team specific to the Coyotes Team Page IMO, as its really almost moot, a side-bar, only tangentially relevant to the sale of the franchise be it local or for relocation, as either way, new brooms often sweep clean even in situations when any given franchise has been successful. Its really hard to tell, project. Depends on so many factors.... but in playing along with your train of thought for a moment, and regardless of local or relo sale, several teams could approach the NHL and ask for permission to open negotiations with both Maloney & Tippett as a package or independently. For example;

Buffalo - GM Reiger I think is a goner, he goes, so does interim Coaching appt
Washington - GM McPhee's clocks just about punched, Oates disposable
Colorado - GM Sherman & Coach Joe Sacco as you mentioned

while at the Head Coaching levels & in varying degrees' of trouble..

Tortorella in NY
Boucher in Tampa
Dineen in Florida
Richards in Columbus
Yeo in Minnesota as also noted
Capuano of the Islanders
McClellan in San Jose'

Dave Tippett is a Coach in the mold of Lemaire, though a lot more "player friendly" as youve mentioned. So philosophically, if he doesnt move as a package with Maloney, then which of the aforementioned teams does a GM share such and who would be willing to drop the kind of coin you think Tippett can demand being in "total control" as the "ultimate free agent"? I dont see one anywhere. Sather's got the cash but wants "run & gun". The rest financially challenged and or philosophically pre-disposed to a more open style of play, a less player favourite Coach, someone more management friendly, demanding & prickly in the mold of a Mike Keenan. And Im sorry to tell ya, but there are all kinds of better & more qualified Coaches available & unemployed who have enjoyed a lot more success. So its not quite the hit Super-Lotto Highway you seem to think it might be, walking on water.


Last edited by Killion: 03-03-2013 at 03:17 PM.
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Old
03-03-2013, 03:53 PM
  #674
Whileee
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Yeah, but I guess it's all in what you're trying to accomplish. From the city perspective, it looks like they wanted to make an economic case for the Coyotes. But in order to do that, a lot data sets have to be misrepresented. That's why there are critically flawed assumptions in Pollock/Hocking, Beasley/Lynch/Colson presentations, Skeete Sheet, etc. Literally, the only way to make an economic case for the Coyotes is to create a bunch of moonbeam scenarios and hope nobody notices.

As to why the city was compelled to fabricate an economic benefit, perhaps it was to avoid admitting that investing in the NHL business model in Glendale was a terrible mistake. Scruggs and Lieberman were the only two on the legacy council that ever had the courage to look at actual data rather than Hockified reports. (Alvarez voted against things but she never appeared to actually comprehend any of the information that was being presented.)

Now, it seems that the new council majority may be done pretending that the Coyotes are some valuable economic engine that must be subsidized at any cost. Perhaps that's because it largely wasn't them who voted to build the thing in the first place. It seems a bit easier to look at things as they actually are when you're not simultaneously burdened by trying to justify how you got there.

That is going to be a shock to the system of those who would rather continue perpetuating the myth that a heavily subsidized Coyote franchise is the highest and best use of the arena. Since there is absolutely zero evidence to support that position, they turn to rhetoric like "Westgate will be a ghost town without the Coyotes". Of course that is also untrue, but if you've come this far pretending the Coyotes are a positive and vital contributor to the economy, you might as well go all the way to proclaiming Mordor in Glendale without the team.
Yup, but there was a clear signal from the market early on that this was the case. Both of the early ownership bidders (Reinsdorf and IEH) proposed deals based on the premise that subsidization of Coyotes losses would be worth it to preserve Westgate businesses. To test that notion, they proposed that the estimated $20-25 million annual subsidies required to offset Coyotes losses should come from a "Community Facilities District" (CFD) that generated revenue from Westgate businesses and arena parking. I was surprised at how many folks actually thought that was a viable proposition. It died a quiet death, without much explanation. However, it was a clear signal that the notion that the Coyotes presence had enough spin-off economic benefits to justify the heavy subsidization was misguided. After it was clear that Westgate businesses could not or would not entertain such a notion, the refrain was picked up by Joyce Clark and other council members, supported by Beasley, Skeete, Hocking, et al. who decided that the tax payers should pick up the subsidies to "save Westgate".

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Old
03-03-2013, 06:03 PM
  #675
mesamonster
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Honestly mesa, this subject is all more "General NHL Talk" or team specific to the Coyotes Team Page IMO, as its really almost moot, a side-bar, only tangentially relevant to the sale of the franchise be it local or for relocation, as either way, new brooms often sweep clean even in situations when any given franchise has been successful. Its really hard to tell, project. Depends on so many factors.... but in playing along with your train of thought for a moment, and regardless of local or relo sale, several teams could approach the NHL and ask for permission to open negotiations with both Maloney & Tippett as a package or independently. For example;

Buffalo - GM Reiger I think is a goner, he goes, so does interim Coaching appt
Washington - GM McPhee's clocks just about punched, Oates disposable
Colorado - GM Sherman & Coach Joe Sacco as you mentioned

while at the Head Coaching levels & in varying degrees' of trouble..

Tortorella in NY
Boucher in Tampa
Dineen in Florida
Richards in Columbus
Yeo in Minnesota as also noted
Capuano of the Islanders
McClellan in San Jose'

Dave Tippett is a Coach in the mold of Lemaire, though a lot more "player friendly" as youve mentioned. So philosophically, if he doesnt move as a package with Maloney, then which of the aforementioned teams does a GM share such and who would be willing to drop the kind of coin you think Tippett can demand being in "total control" as the "ultimate free agent"? I dont see one anywhere. Sather's got the cash but wants "run & gun". The rest financially challenged and or philosophically pre-disposed to a more open style of play, a less player favourite Coach, someone more management friendly, demanding & prickly in the mold of a Mike Keenan. And Im sorry to tell ya, but there are all kinds of better & more qualified Coaches available & unemployed who have enjoyed a lot more success. So its not quite the hit Super-Lotto Highway you seem to think it might be, walking on water.
I am with you on most of your points, but have to disagree on your final point! Who is out there, unemployed, in the coaching ranks who has a better resume than Tippetts? His 10 yr. winning % is second amongst all active coaches to the Wings Babcock! I think if he plays his cards right the hockey coaching world is his oyster!

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