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IS Tyler Seguin The Next Phil Kessel ( I Hope Not)

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:38 PM
  #51
neelyforpresident
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
He has it down to an artform going to the boards making it look like he wants to get dirty and battle for the puck but actually avoiding contact and bailing out.


Kessel gets way too much **** on here. When Seguin was riding the pine and getting to live it up age 19 winning a Cup and being the king of the city Kessel was beating cancer.
Dude, what are you talking about? Kessel already beat cancer before Seguin came into the league.

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02-12-2013, 11:47 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HortonHearsAWoo View Post
I sure hope Seguin has four straight 30-goal seasons and 1 PPG season by age 25.
Kinda how I see it, too.

Seguin will never be the exact same personality or player that Kessel is. But we act as though Kessel sucks... and he FAR from sucks. So different personalities/similar results? I'll take it! We also have a Cup, Jared Knight and Dougie Hamilton for delicious icing after breaking even Kessel for Segsy.

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02-13-2013, 12:46 AM
  #53
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Seguin and kessel have some similarities and some differences. they are both goal scorers and point producers and if Seguin starts producing like kessel, which i think he will, i'll be happy. the difference between Seguin and kessel is that Seguin is committed to this team and playing a more complete game.

Seguin isn't a physical player and never will be. he will also never be as good defensively as a guy like Bergeron. all this is fine as long as he puts up points and shows he is willing to play a responsible game, which i think he has shown. However, I do think that he needs to become less timid and more comfortable in the dirty areas of the ice. that is one thing he needs to work on. besides that, he's off to a slow start, but the points will come soon enough

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02-13-2013, 01:27 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by PJ StockBB View Post
Seguin and kessel have some similarities and some differences. they are both goal scorers and point producers and if Seguin starts producing like kessel, which i think he will, i'll be happy. the difference between Seguin and kessel is that Seguin is committed to this team and playing a more complete game.

Seguin isn't a physical player and never will be. he will also never be as good defensively as a guy like Bergeron. all this is fine as long as he puts up points and shows he is willing to play a responsible game, which i think he has shown. However, I do think that he needs to become less timid and more comfortable in the dirty areas of the ice. that is one thing he needs to work on. besides that, he's off to a slow start, but the points will come soon enough
is he worth $5.75 million a year? (both of them are around that each)

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02-13-2013, 02:23 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by neelyforpresident View Post
Dude, what are you talking about? Kessel already beat cancer before Seguin came into the league.
HE got it when he was 19. When Seguin was 19 he was a spare part on a Cup team. (Stepped up when Bergeron was hurt but he wasn't putting in a shift every game.)

Kessel is a good player. He has outperformed the contract we were either too cheap to give him, didnt have the cap room to give him, or didn't want to pay him a mil more than Bergeron (look at it how you want) the blunder of not resigning him only worked out because the other players developed enough to win a Cup and because the LEafs blew.

Seguin needs to either become a 2 way player fast. Or pot 30 goals with ease like Kessel does. Right now he is neither and is hardly playing better than Chris Bourque.

He also already has his raise lined up for next year so expect fans to turn on him if he plays poorly at that cap hit.


I think we need 1 more elite goal scorer to take the pressure off him (Perry.) Or I think we should have Tyler play with Kelly and Peverley and not play against top D men.


I am not that worried about Seguin but I don't see the 2 way game really coming to fruition. So he better turn into Kessel offensively.

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02-13-2013, 03:06 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
HE got it when he was 19. When Seguin was 19 he was a spare part on a Cup team. (Stepped up when Bergeron was hurt but he wasn't putting in a shift every game.)

Kessel is a good player. He has outperformed the contract we were either too cheap to give him, didnt have the cap room to give him, or didn't want to pay him a mil more than Bergeron (look at it how you want) the blunder of not resigning him only worked out because the other players developed enough to win a Cup and because the LEafs blew.

Seguin needs to either become a 2 way player fast. Or pot 30 goals with ease like Kessel does. Right now he is neither and is hardly playing better than Chris Bourque.

He also already has his raise lined up for next year so expect fans to turn on him if he plays poorly at that cap hit.


I think we need 1 more elite goal scorer to take the pressure off him (Perry.) Or I think we should have Tyler play with Kelly and Peverley and not play against top D men.


I am not that worried about Seguin but I don't see the 2 way game really coming to fruition. So he better turn into Kessel offensively.
that is true
the problem we have with Seguin is top draft pick and high price player expectations

if he could sit on the third line and play with the same salary and expectations as those guys we would be really happy with him right now (well, we'd still be complaining, but we'd have a pretty awesome third line as far as league standards go)

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02-13-2013, 06:08 AM
  #57
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Some serious trolling going on in here.

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02-13-2013, 06:20 AM
  #58
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So funny...had to add my two cents word here,lol

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02-13-2013, 07:41 AM
  #59
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I think I see where the OP is going with this but I completely disagree.

Seguin isn't producing right now, and were he a Phil Kessel clone he'd be absolutely useless that being the case. That isn't the case however, Segs is still breaking up plays, driving the net, and creating space. He's damn good on the forecheck, damn good.

There are some similarities to the two at the same age however, the main one being neither really knew at this age how to best to apply their better assets to work in their advantage. Like Kessel, Segs is trying to take on the defense 1 on 1 (sometimes 1 on 3) and that just won't fly with NHL dmen. Like Kessel, he needs to learn how to better use his linemates to gain entry and how better to setup once they do.

He's also tentative of board work and that may lend itself to the perspective of him being Kessel like, but he doesn't seem scared of it as he engages in his own zone and will take hits to make plays. In the offensive zone however it seems that he doesn't want to be stuck along the wall and seems more interested in getting back out to the middle. One of the many reasons I like him paired with Lucic. When he`s with Bergeron and Marchand he seems to pay far less attention to work on the boards... mayhaps because his linemates are so good at the cycle game. When he's with Lucic however he seems more engaged along the wall. I noticed the two also create a lot of space for each other as well (albeit by different means), and that's something Bergeron and Marchand don't really do. They tend to work best with the opposition draped all over them.

It's been really good seeing him taking some draws as well, and even better seeing him doing well on them. He's won more then he's lost (63%)... another sign of maturity.

It'll all come with time, we haven't seen anywhere near the best of Seguin yet. I'd wager it won't be long though.

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02-13-2013, 08:01 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ StockBB View Post
Seguin and kessel have some similarities and some differences. they are both goal scorers and point producers and if Seguin starts producing like kessel, which i think he will, i'll be happy. the difference between Seguin and kessel is that Seguin is committed to this team and playing a more complete game.

Seguin isn't a physical player and never will be. he will also never be as good defensively as a guy like Bergeron. all this is fine as long as he puts up points and shows he is willing to play a responsible game, which i think he has shown. However, I do think that he needs to become less timid and more comfortable in the dirty areas of the ice. that is one thing he needs to work on. besides that, he's off to a slow start, but the points will come soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
I think I see where the OP is going with this but I completely disagree.

Seguin isn't producing right now, and were he a Phil Kessel clone he'd be absolutely useless that being the case. That isn't the case however, Segs is still breaking up plays, driving the net, and creating space. He's damn good on the forecheck, damn good.

There are some similarities to the two at the same age however, the main one being neither really knew at this age how to best to apply their better assets to work in their advantage. Like Kessel, Segs is trying to take on the defense 1 on 1 (sometimes 1 on 3) and that just won't fly with NHL dmen. Like Kessel, he needs to learn how to better use his linemates to gain entry and how better to setup once they do.

He's also tentative of board work and that may lend itself to the perspective of him being Kessel like, but he doesn't seem scared of it as he engages in his own zone and will take hits to make plays. In the offensive zone however it seems that he doesn't want to be stuck along the wall and seems more interested in getting back out to the middle. One of the many reasons I like him paired with Lucic. When he`s with Bergeron and Marchand he seems to pay far less attention to work on the boards... mayhaps because his linemates are so good at the cycle game. When he's with Lucic however he seems more engaged along the wall. I noticed the two also create a lot of space for each other as well (albeit by different means), and that's something Bergeron and Marchand don't really do. They tend to work best with the opposition draped all over them.

It's been really good seeing him taking some draws as well, and even better seeing him doing well on them. He's won more then he's lost (63%)... another sign of maturity.

It'll all come with time, we haven't seen anywhere near the best of Seguin yet. I'd wager it won't be long though.
I think you're both hitting the nail on the proverbial head, here. I was going to come in and add my two pennies but there's not much more for me to say.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:09 AM
  #61
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They're both world class offensive talents and they are similar in that neither one is all that natural or comfortable along the walls. But I thought Seguin came farther in his second year (in that regard) than Kessel had come in five. Seguin's regressed a bit this season, but I think he genuinely wants to be better at it and it will come.

I also think it speaks volumes that Chiarelli/Julien et al saw enough development from Seguin in regards to his board play/complete game, and were impressed enough by his work ethic and coachability to give Seguin the long-term commitment they wouldn't give Phil.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:16 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
They're both world class offensive talents and they are similar in that neither one is all that natural or comfortable along the walls. But I thought Seguin came farther in his second year (in that regard) than Kessel had come in five. Seguin's regressed a bit this season, but I think he genuinely wants to be better at it and it will come.

I also think it speaks volumes that Chiarelli/Julien et al saw enough development from Seguin in regards to his board play/complete game, and were impressed enough by his work ethic and coachability to give Seguin the long-term commitment they wouldn't give Phil.
Or they didn't want to push their luck again. They got lucky with the return for Kessel. Who knows if they would again if the Kessel situation repeated itself with Seguin.

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02-13-2013, 08:20 AM
  #63
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... last time i checked Seguin had the best +/- of all Bruins in 2011 and he is leading the team again (+8)

Really liked his effort against the Rangers and the only thing he is missing atm is positioning and confidence

-> I will not order any panic button yet http://panicbuttons.com/

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02-13-2013, 08:30 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Selke37 View Post
... last time i checked Seguin had the best +/- of all Bruins in 2011 and he is leading the team again (+8)

Really liked his effort against the Rangers and the only thing he is missing atm is positioning and confidence

-> I will not order any panic button yet http://panicbuttons.com/
Yup, I'm happy with his + ratting. Shows that he get the defensive part of his game. Something Kessel never did. Though I cringe when he avoids physical play. But its easily overlooked when he starts producing.

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02-13-2013, 08:38 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
They're both world class offensive talents and they are similar in that neither one is all that natural or comfortable along the walls. But I thought Seguin came farther in his second year (in that regard) than Kessel had come in five. Seguin's regressed a bit this season, but I think he genuinely wants to be better at it and it will come.

I also think it speaks volumes that Chiarelli/Julien et al saw enough development from Seguin in regards to his board play/complete game, and were impressed enough by his work ethic and coachability to give Seguin the long-term commitment they wouldn't give Phil.

I read through this whole bizzare thread. and I have to say Bill's is the only post that even makes sense to me.

well stated , and I dont agree with you all that often.

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02-13-2013, 08:46 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Afam View Post
After watching Felger and Mazz, they do make some interesting points. Seguin needs to be working the words. Go over the dirty areas and not become a Finesse Player. Believe me Felger is loud mouth who is so annoying, but he is a hockey guy and knows what he is talking about.

This is not a Bash Tyler Seguin trade because as many know here, Tyler seguin is my favorite player on the Bruins. I just dont want to see him become Phil Kessell. Kessel is a pure goal scorer with great hockey hands, but he never fights for the puck, not physical. Is too push around and can mentally be taken out of a game by a physical player. Tyler and Kessel can both score 40 gols per season, but we don't need that from Seggy. We need him to be physical, good defensive player on his own end and fight for lose pucks.

He needs to become a 2way player who fights for the puck ala Bergy but is a better scorer than Bergeron.
What Bruins need from him is putting up pts PERIOD! To be quite honest i am starting to wonder if Bergerons style is hurting him.He went with Krecji and did better with him in couple games then Bergie all rest them.


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02-13-2013, 08:50 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
They're both world class offensive talents and they are similar in that neither one is all that natural or comfortable along the walls. But I thought Seguin came farther in his second year (in that regard) than Kessel had come in five. Seguin's regressed a bit this season, but I think he genuinely wants to be better at it and it will come.

I also think it speaks volumes that Chiarelli/Julien et al saw enough development from Seguin in regards to his board play/complete game, and were impressed enough by his work ethic and coachability to give Seguin the long-term commitment they wouldn't give Phil.
Chiarelli was on 98.5 today and talked about Seguin postively- grades all players every game and sees Seguin getting better and better, including the cycle. I watched him pretty good last night from my seats because of this thread and came away thinking- man, is he ffffffffast and quick, just a matter of time he goes on a 5 or 6 goals in similar amount of games. He also went very hard to the net a couple of times with those cross-checking Rags D down there. He'll be fine and then some

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02-13-2013, 08:51 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovi View Post
I read through this whole bizzare thread. and I have to say Bill's is the only post that even makes sense to me.

well stated , and I dont agree with you all that often.
mine does to

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02-13-2013, 08:55 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Chiarelli was on 98.5 today and talked about Seguin postively- grades all players every game and sees Seguin getting better and better, including the cycle. I watched him pretty good last night from my seats because of this thread and came away thinking- man, is he ffffffffast and quick, just a matter of time he goes on a 5 or 6 goals in similar amount of games. He also went very hard to the net a couple of times with those cross-checking Rags D down there. He'll be fine and then some
Great to hear and from u makes me feel better.

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02-13-2013, 09:04 AM
  #70
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Seguin has already proven to be far more physical and better defensively than Kessel, if he scores somewhere in the neighborhood of Kessel, and I think he may even outscore Kessel soon, then the Bruins will have quite a player. Not every player has to be Neely, or Bergeron, every player has to fit in on the team and the Bruins can certainly handle having a guy who's offensive game really outshines his defensive or hitting game.

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02-13-2013, 11:13 AM
  #71
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As it looks right now, Kessel's third season in the league is much better than Seguin's third. Hopefully Seguin can pick up his play. He looked alright last night against and had a bunch of chances against the Sabres, but he's eventually got to start scoring. Chances alone aren't good enough.

He does look like he's getting more involved physically which is a good sign for his overall game, which is miles better than Kessel's.

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02-13-2013, 11:54 AM
  #72
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Segs is no Kessel, no way.. Tyler is going to light this league up sooner than you think. Can't wait till Friday's game. Go Bruins Go!

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02-13-2013, 12:04 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by 22Brad Park View Post
What Bruins need from him is putting up pts PERIOD! To be quite honest i am starting to wonder if Bergerons style is hurting him.He went with Krecji and did better with him in couple games then Bergie all rest them.
Exactly .. lets stop with the bergy line ..Segs needs to use his skills that got him drafted not be something he's not !! Sure I want him backchecking but he needs to be thinking offence and he doesn't get to touch the PUCK enough on that line !!

Segs can easily be a difference maker if you keep giving him the puck .... this is not happening

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02-13-2013, 12:13 PM
  #74
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It is clearly Seguin's fault the Bruins have an 8-1-2 record. Maybe we could get Toronto to trade Kessel back to the Bruins for him.

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02-13-2013, 12:59 PM
  #75
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I felt this for a long time now. Weren't both drafted C turned in RW as well?

I always wanted to know the opinion of Bruins fans on this one. Glad I checked out the thread.

PS: If you find a thread comparing both of them on main boards, OP is not a Leafs fan.

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