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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:57 PM
  #51
Rinzler
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Pass! I'm too used to spelling the name Rielly now. It's too much for me to handle.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:59 PM
  #52
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
In fairness, can you point me to a top-5 pick who isn't compared to a franchise player in their draft year?

Duchene = RNH = Seguin = Sakic, Yzerman
Erik Johnson = Pronger
Strome = Spezza

And how many of those got moved? Exactly.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:01 PM
  #53
Crisp Breakout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
And how many of those got moved? Exactly.
Try JVR, Turris, and Luke Schenn. The point is the comparison's are more often than not ridiculous.

But let's say your point has some merit. How many Ryan O'Reilly's have been moved?

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:05 PM
  #54
sparxx87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
I think this is good value, no matter what your fellow leafs fans think. Personally there is not a chance I'd make the deal without the contract dispute.
Of course you think so, you give up a 2-3 for another 2-3 AND a recent top 5 pick with #1 D potential..


It's truly unbelievable how overrated ROR is.. But then again, HF loves the intangibles!

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:10 PM
  #55
Tommy Torini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Try JVR, Turris, and Luke Schenn. The point is the comparison's are more often than not ridiculous.

But let's say your point has some merit. How many Ryan O'Reilly's have been moved?
Yeah, but they were traded years after they were drafted. It hasn't even been a year since Rielly has been drafted.


Last edited by Tommy Torini: 02-13-2013 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Wording
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Old
02-13-2013, 02:16 PM
  #56
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Try JVR, Turris, and Luke Schenn. The point is the comparison's are more often than not ridiculous.

But let's say your point has some merit. How many Ryan O'Reilly's have been moved?
All moved well after they were drafted, all after they'd had a chance to either disappoint or conflict, and thus not comparable here.

And none that I know of. I can't think of a similar situation of a player so young, fresh off his ELC and showing potential, trending up, yada yada, and conversely locked into such a large contract dispute that the team is forced to trade him.

The only player I can think of is Turris that's both close and recent.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:26 PM
  #57
Crisp Breakout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
All moved well after they were drafted, all after they'd had a chance to either disappoint or conflict, and thus not comparable here.

And none that I know of. I can't think of a similar situation of a player so young, fresh off his ELC and showing potential, trending up, yada yada, and conversely locked into such a large contract dispute that the team is forced to trade him.

The only player I can think of is Turris that's both close and recent.
Right, so I don't find the whole argument that it hasn't happened before all that convincing here. Even less convincing is a comparison to Erik Karlsson before he's set foot on NHL ice.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:50 PM
  #58
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Right, so I don't find the whole argument that it hasn't happened before all that convincing here. Even less convincing is a comparison to Erik Karlsson before he's set foot on NHL ice.


What argument was that exactly? Because mine was that trading our blue chip + our #1C for ROR is absurd.

Even if we use the Turris comparison, Rundblad was a mid 1st round pick, and was already traded once by the team that drafted him. Sure he was one of the Sens' best prospects, but not THE best. Hockeys Future has him as a 7.5C - you know who else is? Blacker.

Obviously that's Hockey's Future (lawl), but still, the value of Rundblad to that of Reilly is is and was lower. In Toronto prospect land, Rundblad would stack against Gardiner, Percy, Colborne, Blacker, Biggs. Top-5 prospects, definitely. Reilly? No.

And the 2nd round pick? Are we to assume that a 2nd round pick would have equal value to Bozak, on top of Reilly already holding greater value than Rundblad?

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:58 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philadelphiakessel81 View Post
Just throwing it out there and will probably get ***** by everyone including leaf fans because we over vaule our prospects:

To Toronto:
Ryan O'Reilly

To Colorado:
Tyler Bozak
Morgan Rielly

Why this make sense for both squads:
COL: Bozak is a perfect third line centre with an offensive upside plus adds to their Defense with an offensive defensive prospect.

TOR: Toronto gets a first line centre to play on the top line with Kessel and Toronto's defense is deep so Morgan Rielly is a moveable asset.

Please dont murder me hahaha
Would not trade Rielly.

Would consider Gardiner in a deal, but not Morgan, his potential is much too high. He was potentially the best of all of Canada's D in the World Junior and he did it at 18. He is playing as nearly a PPG defenceman in the WHL right now playing for a bad Moose Jaw team. If him and Seth Jones didn't miss so much time for the WJHC they would be both leading the league in D scoring most likely.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:03 PM
  #60
Lust4LEAFS
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Toronto:
O'Rielly
2nd

Colorado:
Gardiner
Bozak
3rd

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:05 PM
  #61
Crisp Breakout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
What argument was that exactly? Because mine was that trading our blue chip + our #1C for ROR is absurd.

Even if we use the Turris comparison, Rundblad was a mid 1st round pick, and was already traded once by the team that drafted him. Sure he was one of the Sens' best prospects, but not THE best. Hockeys Future has him as a 7.5C - you know who else is? Blacker.

Obviously that's Hockey's Future (lawl), but still, the value of Rundblad to that of Reilly is is and was lower. In Toronto prospect land, Rundblad would stack against Gardiner, Percy, Colborne, Blacker, Biggs. Top-5 prospects, definitely. Reilly? No.

And the 2nd round pick? Are we to assume that a 2nd round pick would have equal value to Bozak, on top of Reilly already holding greater value than Rundblad?
The argument that a 5th overall pick won't be moved because he was compared to Erik Karlsson. I saw two prongs to your argument (1) top 5 picks are never moved a year after being drafted and (2) he has Erik Karlsson potential.

(1) I acknowledge this is true, but I don't find it convincing because players like O'Reilly are rarely available. It is precisely the kind of availability that would be an exception to the "rule".

(2) I find this prong naive. Every top-5 pick is compared to a legendary player every year. They rarely meet that comparison.

I don't understand why you would use Turris as a comparable. He had proved very little and had big questions regarding his back. And you pointed out for me how ridiculous it is to rely on HF ratings.

It's legitimate if you don't want to make the trade, but I think the value is about right. The key here is that Bozak as a UFA doesn't hold much value to us. He's not a hill we'll die on.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:18 PM
  #62
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
The argument that a 5th overall pick won't be moved because he was compared to Erik Karlsson. I saw two prongs to your argument (1) top 5 picks are never moved a year after being drafted and (2) he has Erik Karlsson potential.

(1) I acknowledge this is true, but I don't find it convincing because players like O'Reilly are rarely available. It is precisely the kind of availability that would be an exception to the "rule".

(2) I find this prong naive. Every top-5 pick is compared to a legendary player every year. They rarely meet that comparison.

I don't understand why you would use Turris as a comparable. He had proved very little and had big questions regarding his back. And you pointed out for me how ridiculous it is to rely on HF ratings.

It's legitimate if you don't want to make the trade, but I think the value is about right. The key here is that Bozak as a UFA doesn't hold much value to us. He's not a hill we'll die on.
Turris was used solely because he's the closest example of a recent top-5 pick becoming disenchanted with his club and asking for a move, and the only thing we have to benchmark this against.

The value isn't "right", at all. No one would move Reilly and Bozak for ROR, not even anti-leaf fans. Regardless of whatever good showing ROR has had in his first 2-3 years, that asking price is ludicrous.

The UFA argument is so played out, and laughable that people continue to dismiss player value under the pretense of pending UFA status, as if it's impossible to extend players in this day and age when little talent ever makes the FA market in the first place. Bozak is our #1C right now, and playing well.

Whatever. Agree to disagree. We'll keep Reilly and Bozak.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:18 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
******* no. Ror is quickly becoming one of the most over rated players
It's because he becomes a star in NHL 12 and 13....

Look, he's good. A very good young player. For the Leafs to give up that package, they'd have to really be in love with O'Reilly.

The value is pretty good actually. Let's not overrate Reilly until he actually plays in the NHL.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:34 PM
  #64
HockeyGuruPitka
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Bozak is a U of Denver alum. Hes there every off-season. This would be the ideal trade for him and i can guarantee avs fans that he would re-sign. Still wont change anything because Bozak is apparently "no good". thought i would add that in.

As for Rielly? Untouchable. Have your pick of anything in the organization not named Phaneuf, Kadri, Frattin, Rielly, Kessel.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:40 PM
  #65
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Deal.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:43 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Bozak is a U of Denver alum. Hes there every off-season. This would be the ideal trade for him and i can guarantee avs fans that he would re-sign. Still wont change anything because Bozak is apparently "no good". thought i would add that in.

As for Rielly? Untouchable. Have your pick of anything in the organization not named Phaneuf, Kadri, Frattin, Rielly, Kessel.
If Bozak is likely to sign with Colorado in any event, why would they trade assets for him now.

It makes no sense.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:47 PM
  #67
HockeyGuruPitka
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Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
If Bozak is likely to sign with Colorado in any event, why would they trade assets for him now.

It makes no sense.
Was insinuating, if Toronto proves not to have interest in him his likely destination would be Colorado. IMO hes most likely staying in Toronto.

He signed here to begin with as a free agent, has good chemistry with the guys. No reason for him to leave.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:52 PM
  #68
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If ROR is a first line center so is Bozak.

If the leafs are paying for ROR's "potential" than I'd offer up a player who also has "potential"

ROR - At best.. # 1 center with 2 way skills
Likely .. good 2nd line center.

Kadri - At best # 1 center with elite passing skills
Likely .. Ribero lite with less whining and more grit.

No way are the leafs trading a good 2nd line center (bozak) and a player with # 1 pairing potential for a young 2nd line center who "could" develop into more.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:55 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
All moved well after they were drafted, all after they'd had a chance to either disappoint or conflict, and thus not comparable here.

And none that I know of. I can't think of a similar situation of a player so young, fresh off his ELC and showing potential, trending up, yada yada, and conversely locked into such a large contract dispute that the team is forced to trade him.

The only player I can think of is Turris that's both close and recent.
What about the Kessel trade from Boston to Toronto?

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:56 PM
  #70
kihei
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I'd not give up that package for a player who only has potential to be a #1 centre, but more likely a #2. So a very easy no from Toronto.

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Old
02-13-2013, 05:39 PM
  #71
Crisp Breakout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Turris was used solely because he's the closest example of a recent top-5 pick becoming disenchanted with his club and asking for a move, and the only thing we have to benchmark this against.

The value isn't "right", at all. No one would move Reilly and Bozak for ROR, not even anti-leaf fans. Regardless of whatever good showing ROR has had in his first 2-3 years, that asking price is ludicrous.

The UFA argument is so played out, and laughable that people continue to dismiss player value under the pretense of pending UFA status, as if it's impossible to extend players in this day and age when little talent ever makes the FA market in the first place. Bozak is our #1C right now, and playing well.

Whatever. Agree to disagree. We'll keep Reilly and Bozak.
My point was we don't care that much about Bozak. Drop him if you want. Then I argue the value favors you. Now you'll say, "he was a recent 5th overall pick that is worth so much more than ROR!" Well let's look at history tells us. Is ROR worth a 5th overall pick?

2012. Morgan Rielly
2011. Ryan Strome
2010. Nino Niederreiter
2009. Brayden Schenn
2008. Luke Schenn
2007. Karl Alzner
2006. Phil Kessel
2005. Carey Price (sub Benoit Pouliot or Gilbert Brule)
2004. Blake Wheeler

Looking at this list as reference, it seems like at least fair value.

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Old
02-13-2013, 05:43 PM
  #72
WildcatMapleLeafs28
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Nonis won't trade Rielly , Gardiner maybe.

To Toronto: ROR

To Colorado : Gardiner , 2nd 2013 / Percy / Finn

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Old
02-13-2013, 05:47 PM
  #73
Clark4Ever
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Bozak is Kessel's BFF. It might disrupt locker room chemistry and affect his decision to sign a contract extension in Toronto.

I would offer Grabovski and a 1st round pick for O'Reilly.

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Old
02-13-2013, 05:49 PM
  #74
htpwn
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Morgan Rielly is not available.

It is really that simple.

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Old
02-13-2013, 05:49 PM
  #75
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Morgan Rielly is not available.

It is really that simple.
That's fine, but you're going to have to pony up to get ROR then.

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