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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade? (Part 2)

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:56 PM
  #326
islandermaniac
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Niederreiter or Nielson+ Donovan?

Not really sure what value the Isles have on those two. I'm sure some tweeking would be needed. Leave that to my other Avs fans.
to answer your question about value: the isles value all three of those pieces a great deal.

now, i'm just one isles fan, but i say yes to niederreiter and donovan. i already know that many isles fans wouldn't do that, but i believe players like o'reilly are worth it.

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02-13-2013, 09:59 PM
  #327
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Oh I watched those games (albeit one of them only very casually).
He had some good rushes but overall did not look good to me.
You could see that he was not back to where he was last season.
The concussion is really another reason why I feel that ROR for Gardiner is too much of a risk for the Avs. Half of our team is out with a concussion right now.
We might be the most concussed team ever. We kind of have a knack for suffering them. So I would really rather trade ROR for someone without a NHL-concussion-history. We learned from Mueller and Wilson that the second concussion is usually way worse and takes longer to recover from than the first one. (obv always depends on the severity but still...)

I certainly will never tell you that Gardiner does not have great potential. That would be a lie. But I am just not confident that the Avs can afford to bet ROR on him developing into the guy we need.
A guy like Kulikov would be a much safer bet even if Gardiner might have the higher potential.
I hope we can bury the hatchet because I like the Leafs and I don't usually intend to put them down or something.
sucks your management/ROR put your fanbase in this situation, but you need to realize your not going to get fair value for a guy who hasn't been signed and wants a pay raise, if ROR was really that good they would have signed him IMO. (i have never watched him so i wont pretend like i know how good he is)

for gardiner, im not as high on him as some leaf fans, his skating is exceptional though, he flies and it looks easy for him to just skate the puck up....... imo gards straight up for ROR is pretty fair (just basing on positional needs for each franchise similar to jvr for schenn), there is no way that the leafs are trading Rielly tho, so people gotta take that out of there head right now.

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02-13-2013, 10:06 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
sucks your management/ROR put your fanbase in this situation, but you need to realize your not going to get fair value for a guy who hasn't been signed and wants a pay raise, if ROR was really that good they would have signed him IMO. (i have never watched him so i wont pretend like i know how good he is)
Honestly, ROR's value has never been higher IMO. All this attention has increased the ammount of teams interested which consequently creates more competition for a top 2 C (which are very expensive to obtain)

Col's position is as follows: wait,........ or trade. No rush. At worst, ROR has an ''extra'' year of FA... His lost

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02-13-2013, 10:11 PM
  #329
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Jake Gardiner is a 22yr old 30+pt elite skating 17th overall pick who makes a hair over $1m the next 2 seasons.

Ryan O'Rielly is a 22yr old 50+pt poor skating 33rd overall pick who is demanding $5+ million for years?

Why on earth would the Leafs ever trade Gardiner for O'Rielly even one for one? let alone ADD something to the package?

are you guys nuts?

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02-13-2013, 10:14 PM
  #330
Avs44
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Jake Gardiner is a 22yr old 30+pt elite skating 17th overall pick who makes a hair over $1m the next 2 seasons.

Ryan O'Rielly is a 22yr old 50+pt poor skating 33rd overall pick who is demanding $5+ million for years?

Why on earth would the Leafs ever trade Gardiner for O'Rielly even one for one? let alone ADD something to the package?

are you guys nuts?
You pretty much lost all credibility as soon as you tried to use draft position to justify your position. Oh, and gotta love the poor skating vs elite skating argument. You heard it here first guys, we only look at skating to assess value Mason Raymond. You are one hell of a valuable player.


Like I've been saying for a while. If O'Reilly was a top 10 pick, he would get far more respect around here. Luckily GMs in real life are not dumb enough to assess a player based off where they were drafted.

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02-13-2013, 10:16 PM
  #331
AslanRH
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Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
to answer your question about value: the isles value all three of those pieces a great deal.

now, i'm just one isles fan, but i say yes to niederreiter and donovan. i already know that many isles fans wouldn't do that, but i believe players like o'reilly are worth it.
I would say that's about fair. We'll see what others think.


O'Reilly


Niederreiter
Donovan

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:17 PM
  #332
WornWithPride
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Jake Gardiner is a 22yr old 30+pt elite skating 17th overall pick who makes a hair over $1m the next 2 seasons.

Ryan O'Rielly is a 22yr old 50+pt poor skating 33rd overall pick who is demanding $5+ million for years?

Why on earth would the Leafs ever trade Gardiner for O'Rielly even one for one? let alone ADD something to the package?

are you guys nuts?
Cause a leafs' prospect is usually worth half his perceived value. Example: Burke saying he'd of picked Rielly before anyone in the last draft, no matter his draft position.

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02-13-2013, 10:17 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
You pretty much lost all credibility as soon as you tried to use draft position to justify your position. Oh, and gotta love the poor skating vs elite skating argument. You heard it here first guys, we only look at skating to ***** value


Like I've been saying for a while. If O'Reilly was a top 10 pick, he would get far more respect around here. Luckily GMs in real life are not dumb enough to assess a player based off where they were drafted.
draft position was only one of many points of comparison in that post.

ignore what you want, I guess.

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02-13-2013, 10:18 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Jake Gardiner is a 22yr old 30+pt elite skating 17th overall pick who makes a hair over $1m the next 2 seasons.

Ryan O'Rielly is a 22yr old 50+pt poor skating 33rd overall pick who is demanding $5+ million for years?

Why on earth would the Leafs ever trade Gardiner for O'Rielly even one for one? let alone ADD something to the package?

are you guys nuts?
Sorry but your post just showed that you have no clue what kind of a player ROR is and that you probably have never watched him play.
Bringing up draft position is a surefire indication for that. After a few years draft position means nothing.
And ROR has improved his skating quite a bit over the last few years. He certainly is not a poor skater and his value does not lie in his offensive production although it looks like his offense is catching up to his (absolutely elite) defense. A simple point comparison does not do him any justice. Especially not when you add in that many of the guys he got drafted with just start cracking the roster of their respective teams (e.g. Kadri....)

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02-13-2013, 10:21 PM
  #335
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He certainly is a poor skater. And he's a guy with one serviceable 2nd line quality season under his belt, asking for $5+ mil longterm.

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02-13-2013, 10:22 PM
  #336
Avs44
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
draft position was only one of many points of comparison in that post.

ignore what you want, I guess.
And you showed how clueless you are with it. Draft position holds absolutely no value in an argument. Do you think any GM cares where O'Reilly was drafted? What a pathetic argument. Or are you saying it does matter?? Should we judge Datsyuk's value based off where he was drafted? Your other "points" were skating and contract. Wow!!! You win.


Oh, your other point was that Gardiner was a 30+ point defensman, even though he has yet to score over 30 points. You also left out the great defensively, lead the league in takeaways part about O'Reilly and how he brings way more than just points. But no, great assessment.

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02-13-2013, 10:22 PM
  #337
JoemAvs
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He certainly is a poor skater. And he's a guy with one serviceable 2nd line quality season under his belt, asking for $5+ mil longterm.
Wrong,wrong and wrong....
He is atleast an average skater and he has 3 quality seasons under his belt and he is not asking for 5 M+.

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02-13-2013, 10:23 PM
  #338
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those are two of the isle top prospects. painful to move both. despite that, i make that deal. any deal that involves some pain from each team could be seen by many to be fair.
Two of the Isles top prospects if your counting all of the like 15 top prospects they have. How exactly is C. de Haan a need for us with Elliott & Barrie in the system? Niederreiter has more questions than answers at this point...

This isn't even close, the rumor is a ROSTER PLAYER (That's someone who is PROVEN), and a top prospect.

Nice try though...

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02-13-2013, 10:23 PM
  #339
Avs44
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He certainly is a poor skater. And he's a guy with one serviceable 2nd line quality season under his belt, asking for $5+ mil longterm.
Poor skater? Is this based off the 82 Avs games you watch a season? You're arguing with people who do. I think we know a bit more about his skating than you do.

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02-13-2013, 10:25 PM
  #340
zeke
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It doesn't matter how many games you watch if you don't understand what you're looking at.

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02-13-2013, 10:26 PM
  #341
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Don't worry it's Zeke.... Argues with crappy statistics instead of actually having seen the player play, Ryan O'Reilly is just another example

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02-13-2013, 10:26 PM
  #342
WornWithPride
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
I would say that's about fair. We'll see what others think.


O'Reilly


Niederreiter
Donovan
I strongly believe the Avs will be looking for more help defensively. Key piece should be Dman imo. This trade though has fair value. I just don't know if it suits the needs we have.... That being said, i guess we need a lot of things.

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02-13-2013, 10:27 PM
  #343
Avs44
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It doesn't matter how many games you watch if you don't understand what you're looking at.
That would explain your clueless opinion then and why you have to use draft position to assess a players value. Thanks for telling us. I'll take it easy on you now.

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02-13-2013, 10:27 PM
  #344
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Gardiner got sent down because he was playing like a #3/4 and not a #2, just to clarify. Two game sample size of course, but concussions are real as you know.

I don't get it either, ROR was looking like an obvious fixture for the Avs.. 90% of GMs envy their C depth, weird to see them take this path.
What's not to get? The Avs tried to re-sign him and the negotiations went sour. Lots of bad feelings on both sides. From there, he and his agent tried to put a FLOOR on his next contract (rumored to be $4M per) by signing a 2 year contract in the KHL, this move ultimately failed, he got hurt and is now back. The lockout ended, still no NEW offer from the Avs because 2 years at $3.5M IS ABSOLUTELY FAIR. The Avs know it, the rest of the league knows it and sadly, worse of all, O'Reilly and his camp knows it as well. Therefore, what is the remaining likely conclusion?? He doesn't want to play for the Avs anymore. Reasons? Who knows...who cares?

And here we are.

Please feel free to quote me on this, WHEN RoR is traded he WILL sign that very same bridge deal that the Avs offered him OR LESS, probably out of spite. I guarantee it. [This will be his way of trying to show the rest of the league "see, I'm not a bad guy, they were REALLY low-balling me"]

I hope they wait until the draft to trade him, personally.

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02-13-2013, 10:28 PM
  #345
Avs44
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Originally Posted by crazy Kassian View Post
Don't worry it's Zeke.... Argues with crappy statistics instead of actually having seen the player play, Ryan O'Reilly is just another example
He's moved past crappy...he's trying to use draft position now

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02-13-2013, 10:28 PM
  #346
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I strongly believe the Avs will be looking for more help defensively. Key piece should be Dman imo. This trade though has fair value. I just don't know if it suits the needs we have.... That being said, i guess we need a lot of things.
How do you perceive:



Ryan O'Reilly



Jake Gardiner
Clarke MacArthur/Jerry D'Amigo

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02-13-2013, 10:30 PM
  #347
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How do you perceive:



Ryan O'Reilly



Jake Gardiner
Clarke MacArthur/Jerry D'Amigo
I really hope for your sake that you just entered the thread and didn't read ANY of the previous pages.

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02-13-2013, 10:30 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
How do you perceive:



Ryan O'Reilly



Jake Gardiner
Clarke MacArthur/Jerry D'Amigo
Not fair. Gardiner was drafted 17th, O'Reilly 33rd. Therefore Gardiner>O'Reilly.



In all seriousness, the value is probably ok, I would want Bozak instead of Mac, but Gardiner's concussion scares me. I know Leaf fans don't think its a big deal, but the Avs have had a horrible history with concussions.

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02-13-2013, 10:34 PM
  #349
WornWithPride
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
How do you perceive:



Ryan O'Reilly



Jake Gardiner
Clarke MacArthur/Jerry D'Amigo
I'm always tentative when leafs fan go from ''Untoucheable'' (Last year) to trade him (very next year). I figure there's something to it.

That being said, A big body offensive dman is a very good start. MacArthur has been trending downwards since half way through last year...

I don't know, the fact I'm not jumping on/off this deal makes me feel like it's fair. previously mention too... many times

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02-13-2013, 10:37 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Not fair. Gardiner was drafted 17th, O'Reilly 33rd. Therefore Gardiner>O'Reilly.



In all seriousness, the value is probably ok, I would want Bozak instead of Mac, but Gardiner's concussion scares me. I know Leaf fans don't think its a big deal, but the Avs have had a horrible history with concussions.
so...



O'Reilly



Bozak
Gardiner
3rd round pick in 2013

I'd do this deal.

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