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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade? (Part 2)

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:44 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Styley View Post
Most Avs fans see him in the mold of Patrice Bergeron, with great leadership skills (though this saga could change some opinions). I don't really see how that's overrating him if you have watched him play regularly. He's a guy you win championships with that do all of the little things on the ice.
Nothing about his situation screams he is the type of player you win with. Bergeron? Bergeron had 182 points in his first 3 seasons compared to O'reilly's 107.

You will get a package deal. Given the situation and the risk involved for teams, there is no way the Avs will get the better play in a deal like this.

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02-15-2013, 03:50 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by MauDevils View Post
Nothing about his situation screams he is the type of player you win with. Bergeron? Bergeron had 182 points in his first 3 seasons compared to O'reilly's 107.

You will get a package deal. Given the situation and the risk involved for teams, there is no way the Avs will get the better play in a deal like this.
O'Reilly played a completely different role than Bergeron did in his first two years. He was a shutdown defensive center playing with Yip/Winnik and getting no PP time.

No one expected him to be as defensively advanced as he was at 18. So he made the team in that role due to a very strong camp and it wasn't until his third year (two months into the season) he forced Avs hand through his play so they had no choice but to play him as a #1-2C for the rest of the year.

O'Reilly hasn't only had one good year. He's had three good years, being used in two completely different roles.

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02-15-2013, 03:53 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
O'Reilly played a completely different role than Bergeron did in his first two years. He was a shutdown defensive center playing with Yip/Winnik and getting no PP time.

No one expected him to be as defensively advanced as he was at 18. So he made the team in that role due to a very strong camp and it wasn't until his third year (two months into the season) he forced Avs hand through his play so they had no choice but to play him as a #1-2C for the rest of the year.

O'Reilly hasn't only had one good year. He's had three good years, being used in two completely different roles.
this X100...

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:55 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by MauDevils View Post
Nothing about his situation screams he is the type of player you win with. Bergeron? Bergeron had 182 points in his first 3 seasons compared to O'reilly's 107.

You will get a package deal. Given the situation and the risk involved for teams, there is no way the Avs will get the better play in a deal like this.
Well the difference is that in contrast to almost every Eastern Conference fan (at least it seems that way), Avs fans have seen ROR play a ton of games.
If you don't believe he is the player you win with, you have not watched him play. It is as simple as that. He, the Avs and his agent have created a mess of a situation. We don't know who really is at fault. We know that like most succesful sports stars he has an ego. And that got hurt during the negotiations. That happens. That has nothing with his work ethic (which gets praised by everyone that knows him) and his leadership/on-ice play.

So yes we realize that we won't get the better player in this deal. The problem is that most guys just don't realize how good ROR is and how the term a "better player" does at least in our opinions not apply to many players offered up.

I for one would not trade ROR for Henrique straight up in a vacuum. With his situation I certainly would take Henrique in return because I consider him close enough in value and we obviously will lose this trade...
If the package deal is anything close to 80 % of the proposals in here, we should just fire our whole management ( we should probably do it anyways) and bring in a new one with the sole intent to patch up the relationship between ROR and the Avs...

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Old
02-15-2013, 04:44 PM
  #705
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The further the season goes the further O'Reilly's value goes down, someone at the deadline will be unwilling to pay for a center who needs time to get back into the lineup because they can probably get a #2 or #3 elsewhere. I suspect most GM's will just wait until Sherman gives in but if it goes into next year you are buying a center who lost a year of development time due to a feud over a few million dollars.

Avs should just offer him 6 million for one year and trade him at the deadline or offseason. Avs can hope that O'Reilly will see the light but if not you can trade him and teams have more time to build around him.

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Old
02-15-2013, 05:03 PM
  #706
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From my perspective as a Leafs fan, the ROR situation comes down to this:

ROR is an excellent player and would make the Leafs infinitely better. ROR is the piece we're missing, there's no doubt. I don't want to gush but he would create a symbiosis on our team that would make us better than the sum of our parts up front, and finally a playoff team. Outside of the media ****storm taking place here in Toronto, I honestly think it's fair to say that ROR is just right for the Leafs at the 1C spot alongside Lupul (when healthy) and Kessel especially. We should overpay to get him -- he's the player you do that for. Now, with that out of the way, the Avs need something in return…

Bozak -- hear me out -- is a very good, serviceable 3rd line centre. We all know that is his ceiling. The Avs need a 3rd line centre who will only ask for $2.5M-3.5M tops ever and who probably won't/can't get term. Bozak has played puck in Denver before, and following him on Twitter tells me he has lots of friends/family there whom he visits often. The guy's a great fit for the Avs. Yes, he's UFA after this year; but no, that isn't something a conditional pick can't handle. If you don't think so, I'm sure something else could be worked out -- minor detail, in my opinion. I totally see Bozak resigning with the Avs. Remember, when he signed with us initially, the Avs were the other team that was still in at the end. But Bozak is no ROR, so the question of trade with the Leafs really comes down to what prospect we give up and you're willing to accept. That's the harder question…

With that said, my proposal is thus (more beer, please!):

To Toronto:
ROR

To Colorado:
Bozak
2013 2nd round pick (conditional upon Bozak not resigning with the Avs)
Gunnarsson
McArthur

This makes the most sense to me. Otherwise, the Leafs should stay the course.

EDIT: tenses


Last edited by Bodangles: 02-15-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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02-15-2013, 06:15 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodangles View Post
From my perspective as a Leafs fan, the ROR situation comes down to this:

ROR is an excellent player and would make the Leafs infinitely better. ROR is the piece we're missing, there's no doubt. I don't want to gush but he would create a symbiosis on our team that would make us better than the sum of our parts up front, and finally a playoff team. Outside of the media ****storm taking place here in Toronto, I honestly think it's fair to say that ROR is just right for the Leafs at the 1C spot alongside Lupul (when healthy) and Kessel especially. We should overpay to get him -- he's the player you do that for. Now, with that out of the way, the Avs need something in return…

Bozak -- hear me out -- is a very good, serviceable 3rd line centre. We all know that is his ceiling. The Avs need a 3rd line centre who will only ask for $2.5M-3.5M tops ever and who probably won't/can't get term. Bozak has played puck in Denver before, and following him on Twitter tells me he has lots of friends/family there whom he visits often. The guy's a great fit for the Avs. Yes, he's UFA after this year; but no, that isn't something a conditional pick can't handle. If you don't think so, I'm sure something else could be worked out -- minor detail, in my opinion. I totally see Bozak resigning with the Avs. Remember, when he signed with us initially, the Avs were the other team that was still in at the end. But Bozak is no ROR, so the question of trade with the Leafs really comes down to what prospect we give up and you're willing to accept. That's the harder question…

With that said, my proposal is thus (more beer, please!):

To Toronto:
ROR

To Colorado:
Bozak
2013 2nd round pick (conditional upon Bozak not resigning with the Avs)
Gunnarsson
McArthur

This makes the most sense to me. Otherwise, the Leafs should stay the course.

EDIT: tenses
Then Toronto will be staying the course in your world, I don't know how many times it needs to be said but... Colorado is not going to trade O'Reilly for a package of extras.

Bozak's value is less than zero for us because of how good of a chance we have at him in the off-season, along with him KNOWING we will have a center slot ready and waiting for him once O'Reilly leaves.

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:16 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
Scott Cullen's piece on O'Reilly:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=416077
There is no way the Habs will trade for RoR and give him multi years contract at 5M per year after they give a bridge contract to Subban.

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:16 PM
  #709
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Well the difference is that in contrast to almost every Eastern Conference fan (at least it seems that way), Avs fans have seen ROR play a ton of games.
If you don't believe he is the player you win with, you have not watched him play. It is as simple as that. He, the Avs and his agent have created a mess of a situation. We don't know who really is at fault. We know that like most succesful sports stars he has an ego. And that got hurt during the negotiations. That happens. That has nothing with his work ethic (which gets praised by everyone that knows him) and his leadership/on-ice play.

So yes we realize that we won't get the better player in this deal. The problem is that most guys just don't realize how good ROR is and how the term a "better player" does at least in our opinions not apply to many players offered up.

I for one would not trade ROR for Henrique straight up in a vacuum. With his situation I certainly would take Henrique in return because I consider him close enough in value and we obviously will lose this trade...
If the package deal is anything close to 80 % of the proposals in here, we should just fire our whole management ( we should probably do it anyways) and bring in a new one with the sole intent to patch up the relationship between ROR and the Avs...
Let's just put him in the HOF already.

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:27 PM
  #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodangles View Post
From my perspective as a Leafs fan, the ROR situation comes down to this:

ROR is an excellent player and would make the Leafs infinitely better. ROR is the piece we're missing, there's no doubt. I don't want to gush but he would create a symbiosis on our team that would make us better than the sum of our parts up front, and finally a playoff team. Outside of the media ****storm taking place here in Toronto, I honestly think it's fair to say that ROR is just right for the Leafs at the 1C spot alongside Lupul (when healthy) and Kessel especially. We should overpay to get him -- he's the player you do that for. Now, with that out of the way, the Avs need something in return…

Bozak -- hear me out -- is a very good, serviceable 3rd line centre. We all know that is his ceiling. The Avs need a 3rd line centre who will only ask for $2.5M-3.5M tops ever and who probably won't/can't get term. Bozak has played puck in Denver before, and following him on Twitter tells me he has lots of friends/family there whom he visits often. The guy's a great fit for the Avs. Yes, he's UFA after this year; but no, that isn't something a conditional pick can't handle. If you don't think so, I'm sure something else could be worked out -- minor detail, in my opinion. I totally see Bozak resigning with the Avs. Remember, when he signed with us initially, the Avs were the other team that was still in at the end. But Bozak is no ROR, so the question of trade with the Leafs really comes down to what prospect we give up and you're willing to accept. That's the harder question…

With that said, my proposal is thus (more beer, please!):

To Toronto:
ROR

To Colorado:
Bozak
2013 2nd round pick (conditional upon Bozak not resigning with the Avs)
Gunnarsson
McArthur

This makes the most sense to me. Otherwise, the Leafs should stay the course.

EDIT: tenses
You advertise Bozak and then throw in a pick on the condition he doesn't re-sign....So Gunnarsson McArthur and a 2nd? LOL

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:30 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodangles View Post
From my perspective as a Leafs fan, the ROR situation comes down to this:

ROR is an excellent player and would make the Leafs infinitely better. ROR is the piece we're missing, there's no doubt. I don't want to gush but he would create a symbiosis on our team that would make us better than the sum of our parts up front, and finally a playoff team. Outside of the media ****storm taking place here in Toronto, I honestly think it's fair to say that ROR is just right for the Leafs at the 1C spot alongside Lupul (when healthy) and Kessel especially. We should overpay to get him -- he's the player you do that for. Now, with that out of the way, the Avs need something in return…
No he isn't. He's a 2nd line center at best, who has better offensive skills than Bozak.

He is not an ideal 1st line center. Kessel couldn't even play with Connolly. Kessel makes his own offense, and O'Rielly isn't going to take the Leafs to the next level.

If the assets involved are Gardiner or Kadri...you hold onto those guys until a legitimate 1st line center comes available(if one does).

Otherwise you move forward with what you have, and hope to draft another good young talent.

Quote:
Bozak -- hear me out -- is a very good, serviceable 3rd line centre. We all know that is his ceiling. The Avs need a 3rd line centre who will only ask for $2.5M-3.5M tops ever and who probably won't/can't get term. Bozak has played puck in Denver before, and following him on Twitter tells me he has lots of friends/family there whom he visits often. The guy's a great fit for the Avs. Yes, he's UFA after this year; but no, that isn't something a conditional pick can't handle. If you don't think so, I'm sure something else could be worked out -- minor detail, in my opinion. I totally see Bozak resigning with the Avs. Remember, when he signed with us initially, the Avs were the other team that was still in at the end. But Bozak is no ROR, so the question of trade with the Leafs really comes down to what prospect we give up and you're willing to accept. That's the harder question…
Bozak has been essentially the same player ROR has, without all the flash and hype. He quietly goes about his business, gets overlooked because of Kessel on his line. While O'Rielly is a somewhat better player than Bozak, he's not a huge upgrade, but you are right about one thing, in an ideal situation Bozak is a #3C, just like O'Rielly is a #2C.
Quote:
With that said, my proposal is thus (more beer, please!):

To Toronto:
ROR

To Colorado:
Bozak
2013 2nd round pick (conditional upon Bozak not resigning with the Avs)
Gunnarsson
McArthur
Don't think the Avalanche go for that, they would also probably target Biggs, Finn, or Percy instead of the 2nd rounder. Gunnarsson isn't healthy either. MacArthur would help them a bit, but not enough to be the centerpiece of the trade. It's not a bad compensation, but I don't think they're desperate enough to make that deal, and it doesn't really do all that much to make the Leafs better other than just a little bit.

Quote:
This makes the most sense to me. Otherwise, the Leafs should stay the course.
Not going to happen.

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:31 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by GLaDOS View Post
You advertise Bozak and then throw in a pick on the condition he doesn't re-sign....So Gunnarsson McArthur and a 2nd? LOL
To Toronto:
ROR

To Colorado:
Bozak
2013 2nd (conditional upon not resigning)
2013 1st round pick

OR

ROR for Gardiner straight up.

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:35 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Bodangles View Post
To Toronto:
ROR

To Colorado:
Bozak
2013 2nd (conditional upon not resigning)
2013 1st round pick

OR

ROR for Gardiner straight up.


First deal is basically equal to making an offersheet to ROR.
No talks needed. Just go ahead and do it. And see what happens.

Gardiner is a great piece but too risky as sole return for ROR.

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02-15-2013, 06:44 PM
  #714
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No he isn't. He's a 2nd line center at best, who has better offensive skills than Bozak.

He is not an ideal 1st line center. Kessel couldn't even play with Connolly. Kessel makes his own offense, and O'Rielly isn't going to take the Leafs to the next level.

If the assets involved are Gardiner or Kadri...you hold onto those guys until a legitimate 1st line center comes available(if one does).

Otherwise you move forward with what you have, and hope to draft another good young talent.



Bozak has been essentially the same player ROR has, without all the flash and hype. He quietly goes about his business, gets overlooked because of Kessel on his line. While O'Rielly is a somewhat better player than Bozak, he's not a huge upgrade, but you are right about one thing, in an ideal situation Bozak is a #3C, just like O'Rielly is a #2C.


Don't think the Avalanche go for that, they would also probably target Biggs, Finn, or Percy instead of the 2nd rounder. Gunnarsson isn't healthy either. MacArthur would help them a bit, but not enough to be the centerpiece of the trade. It's not a bad compensation, but I don't think they're desperate enough to make that deal, and it doesn't really do all that much to make the Leafs better other than just a little bit.



Not going to happen.
Bozak is 26, RoR just hit 22. He's already a better player than Bozak both offensively and defensively. They are not even comparable.

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:49 PM
  #715
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We have plenty of wingers, any interest in Kulemin+?

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02-15-2013, 06:50 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by MauDevils View Post
Nothing about his situation screams he is the type of player you win with. Bergeron? Bergeron had 182 points in his first 3 seasons compared to O'reilly's 107.

You will get a package deal. Given the situation and the risk involved for teams, there is no way the Avs will get the better play in a deal like this.
I believe that he said that they see him in the MOLD of Bergeron; that does not mean that he's identical to Bergeron, moreover, people develop at different rates.

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02-15-2013, 07:02 PM
  #717
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Let's just put him in the HOF already.
Going to build a new HOF just for him. Best 55 point, 22 year old, soon to be Selke winner ever.

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02-15-2013, 07:08 PM
  #718
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I don't get to watch him play much but from what I have seen he is a very good all around player? Colorados best defensive forward, and has started to blossom quite a bit offensively.... Is this fair to say?

I think he has a lot of value of so.

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02-15-2013, 07:09 PM
  #719
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Going to build a new HOF just for him. Best 55 point, 22 year old, soon to be Selke winner ever.
Just to be clear, are you and Mr. Gotye suggesting that all first liner centers are hall of famers?

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02-15-2013, 07:11 PM
  #720
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David Pagnotta just said the Ave's have had scouts at the last two leafs games.--- on the Fan590

Speculated the price could be something like bozak and percy or biggs. Must be more tho.

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02-15-2013, 07:12 PM
  #721
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Forget the speculation for a second.

Who do most Colorado fans support? Management or ROR?

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02-15-2013, 07:16 PM
  #722
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Forget the speculation for a second.

Who do most Colorado fans support? Management or ROR?
Probably the player. He's a fan favorite and management are suits.

But most fans recognize this mess is the result of both sides being too stubborn and proud. It's hard to cheer for anyone in a pointless game of chicken.

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02-15-2013, 07:17 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
David Pagnotta just said the Ave's have had scouts at the last two leafs games.--- on the Fan590

Speculated the price could be something like bozak and percy or biggs. Must be more tho.
That'd be the anti-Kessel trade. Thank goodness it's just TFP.

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02-15-2013, 07:17 PM
  #724
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Gardiner is not concussed.

He's recovering from it.
If he's recovering from it, he still is.

Are you Dr. Recchi?

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02-15-2013, 07:18 PM
  #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
David Pagnotta just said the Ave's have had scouts at the last two leafs games.--- on the Fan590

Speculated the price could be something like bozak and percy or biggs. Must be more tho.
Good thing one of the credible reporters didn't say that. Then I'd be worried. An impending UFA and Percy?

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