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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade? (Part 2)

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Old
02-16-2013, 12:37 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Didn't try. my bad.

Moving back (maybe 10 spots?) + a D prospect who "may" make it one day for Kulemin........Shouldn't be horrible value.

Kule + Colborne (can be a similar prospect) + 2nd ----isn't a pile of junk. ->but no one likes leaf players, so I understand.
The only thing there of any sort of real value is Kulemin...

Colborne is not a top prospect, possibly no even a B prospect at this point, and the 2nd is literally you just trying to add some extra piece because really you know the offer is horrible and you're just trying to make it look a little less awful.

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02-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Maybe he'd account for the quality of the prospect and offer JVR. *shrug*
i was thinking getting your top 6 forward off another team in a 3way
because you don't want contracts over 4 million
so we trade grabovsky (who we wont need if we got ROR) to someone who can afford him
and give you someone cheaper and comparable

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02-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Then don't get so upset when you get the answer you don't want to hear.

Bringing up Crosby is a cheap negotiating ploy, the writing is far from on the wall when O'Reilly himself wants to stay in Denver but it is management exploring the trade route because they won't cave money-wise. Fans would sign him, you're negotiating with fans, not the GM of the Avs here.

So once again, offer Rielly to make it a fair offer or stop getting defensive when we tell you the offer you proposed is crap.
O'Reilly wants to stay in Denver? If he wanted to be stay, he would. When there is no room for negotiation, it really says that he doesn't give a crap whether he stays in Denver or not.

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02-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #904
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Kulemin is only signed one more year before reaching UFA status and he has scored 7 goals in approximately his last 80 games.

I think his value is questionable at this time.

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02-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
The only thing there of any sort of real value is Kulemin...

Colborne is not a top prospect, possibly no even a B prospect at this point, and the 2nd is literally you just trying to add some extra piece because really you know the offer is horrible and you're just trying to make it look a little less awful.
I guess high 2nd round picks are completely useless - oh wait, wasn't ROR a high second?

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02-16-2013, 12:42 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
He does. The problem was that your proposal was way off.
You traded Kule to PIT and gave us the return for him and than added a "d-prospect from Toronto".
The only one that would have made this worth considering is Rielly.
Percy or Finn do not even come close to making this fair....
Thank you...

We weren't actually getting Kulemin + D prospect for ROR, we were getting D Prospect + D Prospect, unless those D Prospects are close to sure bets(A la Rielly) then that's a significantly worse deal for the Avs then Kulemin + 1 D Prospect(Safe bet D prospect).

You guys might have been giving up Kulemin and whatever, but we weren't getting Kulemin..

I question if you understand how a 3 way trade works from the view of each team, it appears as though you don't.


Last edited by piqued: 02-16-2013 at 01:39 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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02-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
O'Reilly wants a top 6 role so he can put up the numbers to earn a big deal, that's why he's demanding so much money from the Avs. It forces them to either trade him someplace where he will be a top2 C, play him with the better wingers to validate paying him that much, or they pay him the big bucks to make up for not getting the chance to produce as much as he could elsewhere.
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Avs management are way more concerned with the precedent this negotiations sets for future deals with Dutchy, Landy, EJ and Varly, than they are with paying ryan 4.5+, that's why I'm fully convinced they were hoping for an offersheet in that range, that way they could get ryan locked up while being able to say they were forced into the deal and didn't cave in future negotiations.
For those of you that don't know why this holdout is happening and are making assumptions based off of that missing knowledge.

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02-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
O'Reilly wants to stay in Denver? If he wanted to be stay, he would. When there is no room for negotiation, it really says that he doesn't give a crap whether he stays in Denver or not.
We've already been told he loves the team, loves the city and wanted to play here for years, but because of the way our management is negotiating he feels slighted in some way and that they are undervaluing him.

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02-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
I guess high 2nd round picks are completely useless - oh wait, wasn't ROR a high second?
Its not a high 2nd round pick, even as of right now the Pick is a mid 2nd round pick, in the 45-50 range. If you guys got Oreilly, that pick sure as hell wouldn't be any lower then 45th...


And I didn't say it was useless, I said it was his failed attempt to try and make the trade look respectable because really he knew it was terrible. But good job putting words into my mouth.

If he had added a 1st, then were kind of close, but a 2nd is still a ways off.

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02-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Then don't get so upset when you get the answer you don't want to hear.

Bringing up Crosby is a cheap negotiating ploy, the writing is far from on the wall when O'Reilly himself wants to stay in Denver but it is management exploring the trade route because they won't cave money-wise. Fans would sign him, you're negotiating with fans, not the GM of the Avs here.

So once again, offer Rielly to make it a fair offer or stop getting defensive when we tell you the offer you proposed is crap.

I'm not upset.....other Leaf fans shouldn't be either. We aren't the GMs, we don't make the deal. But rest assured that 'in real life' Nonis wouldn't offer Morgan. And just like every GM has (similar to Lu) they will wait.

Sign him----offer him up----wait it out

GMs will wait and see.

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02-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  #911
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what if we traded grabovsky and kulemin to pittsburgh for sutter and a top prospect or 1st rounder
then traded sutter and percy for ROR

that kind of thing

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02-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Didn't try. my bad.

Moving back (maybe 10 spots?) + a D prospect who "may" make it one day for Kulemin........Shouldn't be horrible value.

Kule + Colborne (can be a similar prospect) + 2nd ----isn't a pile of junk. ->but no one likes leaf players, so I understand.
No, let me break it down for you.

Kulemin has had ONE 30 goal 50+ point season. The year before that? 36 points in 78 games. Before that? 31 points in 73 games. Last year, 7 goals, 28 points, in 70 games. This year, 8 points in 14 games. His 30 goal 50+ point season looks like an anomaly, not the norm. I don't think he has as much value as you guys like to think.


Colborne is a 23 year old prospect who has played 11 games in the NHL. I was actually surprised the Leafs didn't give him a better chance, but they didn't. Nor are his numbers in the AHL that impressive quite honestly. I could see him turning into a bust/bottom 6 player. I honestly don't value him very highly at all.


You say the 1st and the 2nd might only be 10 spots apart...well, I doubt that. I don't think the Leafs will be having a top 5-10 pick this year.


This is my personal opinion on these players. I'm not bashing them, just how I feel. Go ahead and disagree. I just don't think someone like Kulemin, Colborne, and a 2nd, gets you someone like ROR. If you value Kulemin as a 50 point player, Colborne as a very good prospect, and that pick as a high 2nd, I'm sure it's fair. I just don't think any of those pieces are that.

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02-16-2013, 12:46 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
The only thing there of any sort of real value is Kulemin...

Colborne is not a top prospect, possibly no even a B prospect at this point, and the 2nd is literally you just trying to add some extra piece because really you know the offer is horrible and you're just trying to make it look a little less awful.
My deal was a 3 way deal.

I added the 2nd to Pitts, so moving their 1st was easier.

The Avs have no part of the 2nd, don't worry.

Quote:
This is my personal opinion on these players. I'm not bashing them, just how I feel. Go ahead and disagree. I just don't think someone like Kulemin, Colborne, and a 2nd, gets you someone like ROR. If you value Kulemin as a 50 point player, Colborne as a very good prospect, and that pick as a high 2nd, I'm sure it's fair. I just don't think any of those pieces are that.
3-way deal.

Bash Kule all you want (yes you were). I think he holds a bit of value to Pitts. He isn't going to your all-star cast, don't worry.

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02-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #914
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Seriously. Duchene is at least 3 ">"'s more valuable than Kessel and Gardiner.
lol.

Delusional. The Leaf player underrating/hatred is on obnoxious proportions on here.

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02-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post



Bash Kule all you want (yes you were). I think he holds a bit of value to Pitts. He isn't going to your all-star cast, don't worry.
I'm not bashing Kulemin..and yet you go ahead and say I am. Pathetic. Apparently voicing your opinion and encouraging a discussion is bashing. And I love how you only answered a tiny part of my post. I would like to know how it is bashing. Everything I posted is a fact. Calling it bashing and refusing to reply to the facts I posted is just sad.

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02-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
what if we traded grabovsky and kulemin to pittsburgh for sutter and a top prospect or 1st rounder
then traded sutter and percy for ROR

that kind of thing


how many times does it have to be said that we don't want Percy or these other B level prospects...

If you trade Kulemin and Grabs for Sutter and a 1st/Top prospect the Avs would want at minimum Sutter + that top prospect.

Percy is not a top prospect. Zibanejad, Armia, Gudbranson are top prospects. Rielly is a top prospect and no more special then those 3 guys, and each of those 3 have been offered as PARTS of a deal for ROR.

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02-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #917
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We've already been told he loves the team, loves the city and wanted to play here for years, but because of the way our management is negotiating he feels slighted in some way and that they are undervaluing him.
Honestly, 95% of players say this. Unless you have insider knowledge on the situation, take it with a grain of salt. Do you honestly think he's going to say that he hates the team and hates the city. Whenever players are midnegotation and the media asks them questions, they always say the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K691CVPnGFk

This interview shows you how much players check their responses. Does it look like he is speaking from the heart?

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02-16-2013, 12:52 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
Honestly, 95% of players say this. Unless you have insider knowledge on the situation, take it with a grain of salt. Do you honestly think he's going to say that he hates the team and hates the city. Whenever players are midnegotation and the media asks them questions, they always say the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K691CVPnGFk

This interview shows you how much players check their responses. Does it look like he is speaking from the heart?
We do have insider information, thank you very much.

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02-16-2013, 12:53 PM
  #919
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We do have insider information, thank you very much.
Eklund doesn't count.

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02-16-2013, 12:53 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
Honestly, 95% of players say this. Unless you have insider knowledge on the situation, take it with a grain of salt. Do you honestly think he's going to say that he hates the team and hates the city. Whenever players are midnegotation and the media asks them questions, they always say the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K691CVPnGFk

This interview shows you how much players check their responses. Does it look like he is speaking from the heart?
And guess what, we have insider information on this.... Oreilly wanted to be here, loves his teammates, shockingly loved the coaching staff, and enjoyed the city. In fact I still don't think its out of the question that he signs here.

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02-16-2013, 12:54 PM
  #921
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Eklund doesn't count.
You're a clever one, aren't you? Don't believe, I don't care.

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02-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #922
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Eklund doesn't count.
It's not insider information. If you have read the previous responses in this thread you would know that many of us have talked of a posteron the Avs board who has provided us some info, information that has been checked out by Mods, and is someone who has personal ties to several NHL players.

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02-16-2013, 01:00 PM
  #923
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how many times does it have to be said that we don't want Percy or these other B level prospects...

If you trade Kulemin and Grabs for Sutter and a 1st/Top prospect the Avs would want at minimum Sutter + that top prospect.

Percy is not a top prospect. Zibanejad, Armia, Gudbranson are top prospects. Rielly is a top prospect and no more special then those 3 guys, and each of those 3 have been offered as PARTS of a deal for ROR.
you dont get an elite prospect
seeing that brandon sutter was taken 8th overall in the 1st round
percy would be a little extra (which is a nice extra being a 1st rounder with potential)

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02-16-2013, 01:01 PM
  #924
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I'm not bashing Kulemin..and yet you go ahead and say I am. Pathetic. Apparently voicing your opinion and encouraging a discussion is bashing. And I love how you only answered a tiny part of my post. I would like to know how it is bashing. Everything I posted is a fact. Calling it bashing and refusing to reply to the facts I posted is just sad.
Commenting on his value and what he has done is totally irrelevant to your team - why even comment on it. Unless you are a Pens fan too, than I'm sorry. But the value you are getting from Kulemin is coming from Pittsburgh.

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02-16-2013, 01:04 PM
  #925
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you dont get an elite prospect
seeing that brandon sutter was taken 8th overall in the 1st round
percy would be a little extra (which is a nice extra being a 1st rounder with potential)
I think you actually mean taken 11th overall in the 1st round.

He was traded with a 1st round pick... 8th overall.

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