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Montreal - St. Louis

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Old
02-14-2013, 08:20 PM
  #1
Halak Ness Monster
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Montreal - St. Louis

Lars Eller for Ian Cole

2007 Blues 1st rounder for 2007 Blues first rounder.

The Blues get a 3rd line natural center with strong defensive ability and untapped offensive potential. The move allows them to put Steen back at wing.

Montreal gets an NHL ready 2nd/3rd pairing d-man, who is actually playing 1st pairing with Pietrangelo. He is really a 2nd/3rd pairing guy but Petro can play with anyone.

I really think both players can be very solid NHL players. They just need to be given a chance. Cole is going to find his way to pressbox often because Hitchcock loves Redden the vet and Russell, his former Blue Jacket.

Eller could be given 14-17 minutes a night in St. Louis with 2 strong wingers(Stewart, Tarasenko, McDonald, Steen, you name it).

It may not be a great move for this Blues team now because we are weak on the left side on defense. But it'd be really nice to get a good 3rd line center and Cole isn't playing every game anyways. Honestly, putting Steen back at wing and bring in Eller could really boost our defense.

We could possibly turn around and trade a 2nd round pick for a decent veteran d-man later on.

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02-14-2013, 08:30 PM
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I don't think this completely addresses issues for both teams. In fact, it seems to favor the Blues.


Last edited by Hush: 02-14-2013 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Adding.
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Old
02-14-2013, 08:32 PM
  #3
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Blues would have to add I imagine. I'd love to get Eller pack but I'd assume the asking price would be at least Schwartz

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Old
02-14-2013, 08:33 PM
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stlblues57
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Eh, I know Cole has been hot and cold (hence the huge difference in minutes from game to game) but he's shown me enough he's worth keeping. If you really want a natural centerman with good two-way play, keep Cole and play Sobotka as your 3rd line center. Honestly, I'd rather have Sobotka than Eller anyway.

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02-14-2013, 08:41 PM
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Halak Ness Monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hush View Post
I don't think this completely addresses issues for both teams. In fact, it seems to favor the Blues.
Well no one for one move is going to "completely address" issues for both teams. Unless there is a player that can play #1 center and top pairing d-man with Petro in the same game. If there is, Army should look into him.

Only time would tell who this favors since you are talking about two guys taken in the 11-18 range of the 2007 draft and two guys who have never been given a fair shake in the NHL.

Both guys have plenty of skill. Each team is getting a guy that can play in the NHL. We just don't know what role they can play. Can Ian Cole consistently be a 2nd pairing shut down d-man who chips in about 20-25 points a year? Can Lars Eller be a 2nd pairing center that plays a two way game and puts up around 50 points a year? No clue but they both still have that potential.

And to the guy who said let's play Sobotka as the 3rd line center, well then we'd really be hurting our 4th line. Sobotka is perfect in that role. Plus Sobotka doesn't have Eller's offensive ability. Eller just needs some decent linemates.

I can't believe Eller is playing with Travis Moen and Colby Armstrong. If Bergevin is shopping him then he should tell the coach to put him at least on the 3rd line for a few games to try to help boost his value.

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02-14-2013, 08:41 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues57 View Post
Eh, I know Cole has been hot and cold (hence the huge difference in minutes from game to game) but he's shown me enough he's worth keeping. If you really want a natural centerman with good two-way play, keep Cole and play Sobotka as your 3rd line center. Honestly, I'd rather have Sobotka than Eller anyway.
I'd rather have Sobotka stick as a perfect 4th line player. And let Eller get a chance with good wingers on our 3rd and move Steen back to wing.

The problem is we'd have to move a wing, and I'm not sure what wing I'd move to acquire Eller.

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02-14-2013, 08:44 PM
  #7
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I don't think the Blues should be trying to trade away Cole. Redden is not reliable enough to play every night with Pietrangelo and Cole has the potential to step up and take that spot.

If Eller is available after AMac retires and Schwartz hasn't panned out, I think going after Eller would be a pretty good plan then.

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02-14-2013, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues57 View Post
Eh, I know Cole has been hot and cold (hence the huge difference in minutes from game to game) but he's shown me enough he's worth keeping. If you really want a natural centerman with good two-way play, keep Cole and play Sobotka as your 3rd line center. Honestly, I'd rather have Sobotka than Eller anyway.
Cole hasn't been any more hot and cold than the rest of the team. He's been more consistent than Redden has been and he has been leagues ahead of Russell. So, yea, even people who think Steen doesn't fit at center should agree that this move hurts the Blues now and going forward.

Even if you think Eller is poised for a breakout, this is not trading from strength to bolster a need, it's trading from a need to bolster a sort of questionable situation.

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02-14-2013, 08:53 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Cole hasn't been any more hot and cold than the rest of the team. He's been more consistent than Redden has been and he has been leagues ahead of Russell. So, yea, even people who think Steen doesn't fit at center should agree that this move hurts the Blues now and going forward.

Even if you think Eller is poised for a breakout, this is not trading from strength to bolster a need, it's trading from a need to bolster a sort of questionable situation.
Impossible to say it's a bad move for the future. Not when Lars Eller is playing 11-12 minutes a night with Travis Moen and Colby Armstrong.

Give him Alex Steen and Vladimir Tarasenko and then see what he can do.

Lars Eller isn't some scrub. He is still a talented center. He may break out like Kyle Turris with a move to a much better situation.

And we still have two 2nd round picks. We could deal one for a veteran d-man. Other moves can be made to fill the hole left by Ian Cole, which wouldn't be terribly huge. He hasn't been THAT good that he can't be replaced. His potential would be harder to replace but he also might never reach it, just like Eller.

I see a chance to get a center that still has very good potential IMO for a not so steep price. That's why I like this move.

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02-14-2013, 08:58 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Impossible to say it's a bad move for the future. Not when Lars Eller is playing 11-12 minutes a night with Travis Moen and Colby Armstrong.

Give him Alex Steen and Vladimir Tarasenko and then see what he can do.

Lars Eller isn't some scrub. He is still a talented center. He may break out like Kyle Turris with a move to a much better situation.

And we still have two 2nd round picks. We could deal one for a veteran d-man. Other moves can be made to fill the hole left by Ian Cole, which wouldn't be terribly huge. He hasn't been THAT good that he can't be replaced. His potential would be harder to replace but he also might never reach it, just like Eller.

I see a chance to get a center that still has very good potential IMO for a not so steep price. That's why I like this move.
Agreed.

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Old
02-14-2013, 08:59 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Impossible to say it's a bad move for the future. Not when Lars Eller is playing 11-12 minutes a night with Travis Moen and Colby Armstrong.

Give him Alex Steen and Vladimir Tarasenko and then see what he can do.

Lars Eller isn't some scrub. He is still a talented center. He may break out like Kyle Turris with a move to a much better situation.

And we still have two 2nd round picks. We could deal one for a veteran d-man. Other moves can be made to fill the hole left by Ian Cole, which wouldn't be terribly huge. He hasn't been THAT good that he can't be replaced. His potential would be harder to replace but he also might never reach it, just like Eller.

I see a chance to get a center that still has very good potential IMO for a not so steep price. That's why I like this move.
I'm not going to speculate on one move based on the potential for more moves. It's absurd. Eller has more potential, but he isn't that great and the Blues cannot give up Cole for him. If both guys remain the same, it's a bad trade. If they both improve about the same, it's a bad trade. It only improves the Blues in a perfect storm of acquiring another defenseman, Cole floundering, and Eller progressing. Bad hockey move.

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02-14-2013, 09:05 PM
  #12
bleedblue1223
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Glad to see Blues fans still overrate Eller.

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02-14-2013, 09:07 PM
  #13
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I like Eller, but would definitively rather have Cole

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02-14-2013, 09:13 PM
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Halak Ness Monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I'm not going to speculate on one move based on the potential for more moves. It's absurd. Eller has more potential, but he isn't that great and the Blues cannot give up Cole for him. If both guys remain the same, it's a bad trade. If they both improve about the same, it's a bad trade. It only improves the Blues in a perfect storm of acquiring another defenseman, Cole floundering, and Eller progressing. Bad hockey move.
Not really absurd at all to be honest but no big deal.

If both guys stay the same, I like Eller more when looking at them as individual players. Unfortunately for Eller, he plays with Travis Moen and Colby Armstrong. They don't bring out the best in him production wise.

Ian Cole on the other hand has a nice cushy job playing along side Alex Pietrangelo. Must be nice. I wonder what he'd do with Kris Russell or Kevin Shattenkirk if Jackman gets hurt. My guess, not quite as well as he has been.

And it could improve the Blues regardless of what Cole does. Not sure why he'd brought into it. Eller progressing isn't a stretch to hope for considering we are ALL hoping Ian Cole progresses.
The Blues acquiring a veteran d-man that is available every trade deadline for a 2nd/3rd round pick certainly isn't a stretch. Off the top of my head, Buffalo might have a few lefty d-men to trade(Sekera, Leopold, Reghyr, Weber).

You're reaching way to hard to try to prove that this "perfect storm" is in fact a "perfect storm". It isn't. Not really close. It's swapping players that we all hope progresses and then acquiring a player that is always available at the trade deadline. Some perfect storm.

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02-14-2013, 09:14 PM
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Halak Ness Monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Glad to see Blues fans still overrate Eller.
Glad to see Blues fans still overrate Cole.

I'm actually a Cole fan. However, Eller is further along in his development and he isn't playing with one of the best players in the game like Cole is.

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02-14-2013, 09:19 PM
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Montreal doesn't need more LD, we need a physical top 4 RD who can play with Markov so Emelin can move back his natural side on the third pairing.

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02-14-2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Glad to see Blues fans still overrate Cole.

I'm actually a Cole fan. However, Eller is further along in his development and he isn't playing with one of the best players in the game like Cole is.
Where did I say anything about Cole. Do you really want to roll a defense with Redden and Russell in full time? That would be an utter disaster.

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02-14-2013, 09:20 PM
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rumrokh
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Not really absurd at all to be honest but no big deal.

If both guys stay the same, I like Eller more when looking at them as individual players. Unfortunately for Eller, he plays with Travis Moen and Colby Armstrong. They don't bring out the best in him production wise.

Ian Cole on the other hand has a nice cushy job playing along side Alex Pietrangelo. Must be nice. I wonder what he'd do with Kris Russell or Kevin Shattenkirk if Jackman gets hurt. My guess, not quite as well as he has been.

And it could improve the Blues regardless of what Cole does. Not sure why he'd brought into it. Eller progressing isn't a stretch to hope for considering we are ALL hoping Ian Cole progresses.
The Blues acquiring a veteran d-man that is available every trade deadline for a 2nd/3rd round pick certainly isn't a stretch. Off the top of my head, Buffalo might have a few lefty d-men to trade(Sekera, Leopold, Reghyr, Weber).

You're reaching way to hard to try to prove that this "perfect storm" is in fact a "perfect storm". It isn't. Not really close. It's swapping players that we all hope progresses and then acquiring a player that is always available at the trade deadline. Some perfect storm.
I won't speculate until the Blues make a move to get a defenseman. It's absurd because you can easily use an identical argument to say the Blues will trade picks for a different center, and until it happens, it's a fantasy two steps removed. Russell has sucked and Redden has been so-so. Cole has been fine. Eller would not improve the team this year. From there on out, it's possible Eller would be preferable to Cole, but I don't know why you'd make that gamble. It's like trading one coinflip for another except one is a greater need.

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02-14-2013, 09:20 PM
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Its not bad but i'd rather keep Eller and trade Desharnais.

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02-14-2013, 09:24 PM
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Any chance there would be a deal that could be worked out around:

Lars Eller and Roman Polak? Add whatever would be needed, but Polak is a piece that the Habs could use right now.

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02-14-2013, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peso View Post
Any chance there would be a deal that could be worked out around:

Lars Eller and Roman Polak? Add whatever would be needed, but Polak is a piece that the Habs could use right now.
Polak is on a very reasonable contract/term and is a pretty darn good shutdown defenseman.

I really don't think he's moving anytime soon unless someone is willing to overpay.

He's not untouchable, but I don't think Eller would be very enticing considering the hole it would leave.

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02-14-2013, 09:27 PM
  #22
Halak Ness Monster
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I won't speculate until the Blues make a move to get a defenseman. It's absurd because you can easily use an identical argument to say the Blues will trade picks for a different center, and until it happens, it's a fantasy two steps removed. Russell has sucked and Redden has been so-so. Cole has been fine. Eller would not improve the team this year. From there on out, it's possible Eller would be preferable to Cole, but I don't know why you'd make that gamble. It's like trading one coinflip for another except one is a greater need.
I understand the concern and was the reason I mentioned our extra 2nd round pick as ammo for a d-man that is usually available.

Since this is a silly forum meant for fantasies, how about this one:

Blues acquire Jordan Leopold for a 3rd round pick and Matt D'Agostini?

Now what do you think of Cole for Eller?

The two moves get us a veteran lefty partner for Pietrangelo and a 3rd line center that puts Steen back on the wing and overall improves the defense in three positions IMO.

Quote:
Where did I say anything about Cole. Do you really want to roll a defense with Redden and Russell in full time? That would be an utter disaster.
It's hard to understand your criticism when all you say is Blues fans overrate Eller. I took it to mean that giving up Cole was too steep of a price. I thought that was overrating Cole. I guess that isn't what you mean.

As I said, though, I get your concern about the thin D.

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02-14-2013, 09:41 PM
  #23
rumrokh
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
I understand the concern and was the reason I mentioned our extra 2nd round pick as ammo for a d-man that is usually available.

Since this is a silly forum meant for fantasies, how about this one:

Blues acquire Jordan Leopold for a 3rd round pick and Matt D'Agostini?

Now what do you think of Cole for Eller?

The two moves get us a veteran lefty partner for Pietrangelo and a 3rd line center that puts Steen back on the wing and overall improves the defense in three positions IMO.
Have you watched Buffalo this year? Leopold has regressed and isn't handling top assignments well at all. He's an okay puck mover and that's about it. I'd have to see him come to the Blues and look good before I even think about moving Cole.

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02-14-2013, 09:52 PM
  #24
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Cole + D'agostini for Eller?

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02-14-2013, 10:00 PM
  #25
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Cole + D'agostini for Eller?
Absolutely no interest in D'ags. Had him, hated him don't want him back even if he was free.

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