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Game #13 -- Wed Feb 13, 2013 - Blues @ Red Wings - 7:30 p.m.| NBCSN, TSN2

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02-13-2013, 10:03 PM
  #626
theYman
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Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
I actually thought Lashoff was pretty good for the majority of the game.
Yeah I like the kid too. Has his mistakes but overall pretty solid for his first stint up. And he has nice size as well.

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02-13-2013, 10:03 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
He's been one of the best defenseman, maybe better than Ericsson. Ericsson was on the ice for 2 goals against tonight, and so was Kronwall. Quincey has been solid... and get's paid less than "no block" Kronwall.
I'm so glad I took you off my ignore list. It's been awhile since I've seen since funny trolling

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02-13-2013, 10:03 PM
  #628
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I wasn't implying that the Pens core was playing 30 a night. I meant that Datsyuk and Z would have to play 30 minutes a night.

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02-13-2013, 10:05 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Speech. Less.

Speechless.

I never thought I'd see anyone say Quincey was "one of the best defenseman."

If I had to call out one new guy tonight, it'd be Brunner. He was playing differently today. He tried too many bad passes, tried to get too fancy. He should keep it simple. Get open, take shots.
Yes Brunner forces too much. Maybe that works over in Euroland on the bigger ice surface but not here. Wish he'd be our shooter more not passer. Guy could have 9 or 10 goals by now.

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02-13-2013, 10:07 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by theYman View Post
Yes Brunner forces too much. Maybe that works over in Euroland on the bigger ice surface but not here. Wish he'd be our shooter more not passer. Guy could have 9 or 10 goals by now.
Brunner made some really lazy passes that had no chance of going anywhere. He killed 2-3 offensive opportunities because of it.

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02-13-2013, 10:07 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Nobody on the Blues is going to bother covering Cleary or Gator. They will always focus on the only players capable of making something happen or scoring on an empty net. It really isnt that surprising that the PP is completely useless. It should be really easy to neutralize when you are technically on a PP, but in reality it's 4v4 hockey.
good point if you have somone on the pp that cant score why cover him?

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02-13-2013, 10:07 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by theYman View Post
Yes Brunner forces too much. Maybe that works over in Euroland on the bigger ice surface but not here. Wish he'd be our shooter more not passer. Guy could have 9 or 10 goals by now.
He was awful tonight.

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02-13-2013, 10:09 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
any opinions?
Worked a bit last year with Flip-Z-Huds. I'm not sure how much Datsyuk wants that, though. IIRC, he would lobby for Homer, and he's lobbied for Bert to be on his line. He seems to want at least one guy out there who can definitely go into the corner and muck.

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Yup, someone has to fill in on the top 6, but virtually every other winger on the team would have been better options than Cleary and Abby. I get that someone was going to pull 18 mins or so in those spots, but put Tatar on one of the lines, and anyone else for the other line.

Abby was actually better than I expected he would be on that line, but I still would have preferred him on a bottom 6 line. Cleary was exactly what we've come to expect.

And it really doesn't make sense to not bump Cleary down at a minimum when the team is generating zero offense in the 2nd and 3rd periods... feel free to let a skilled kid like Tatar who can skate and make a play get some mins with Datsyuk. It's not like the Wings offense was rolling and Babs didn't want to rock the boat by shaking up the lines.
The only thing I didn't get with moving Gator up was leaving Andersson to center the third line - which pretty effectively killed our bottom6 with regards to getting ice time, and which forced us to rely more on our top6.

I don't think it makes a huge deal which guy we plug into those lines, though, as far as how effective they would be. I like Tatar, but I would I want to see him get 18 minutes a night? Not really. Miller, Eaves, etc. ...they're not bad guys, but they're just as poor fits for the top6 as Gator and Cleary.

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The point is Cleary should get NO PP time...but not only is he getting 1st unit PP time, he's getting as much time as our top forwards.

And yeah. We have to put someone out there. Hmm....how about...the guy that scored the first goal? You know, that young offensive player who has 2 points in 5 games to Cleary and Abdelkader's 1 point in 13?

Not to mention. Miller, Emmerton, and Tatar have all looked more offensively threatening than Abdelkader and Cleary for the entirety of the season. Thats just downright pathetic.
If he's on the first unit, he's going to get a similar amount of time as everyone else on that unit.

I just don't see a huge difference between any of them regarding what we should expect of them in a top6 spot. I don't think we lost because Cleary got top6 minutes tonight, we lost because we have too many regulars out of the lineup. Until some guys start getting back on the ice, we should probably expect a pretty rough road.

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02-13-2013, 10:09 PM
  #634
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I don't really get why we are singling specific guys out for why we lost. We had one shot in the third period. That is a whole team effort right there. These guys are all pro hockey players, they should be able to get more than one shot on goal in 20 minutes. Especially when you are playing a guy in his first game. There is no excuse for that.

We were lucky to even get a point.

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02-13-2013, 10:09 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by theYman View Post
Yeah I like the kid too. Has his mistakes but overall pretty solid for his first stint up. And he has nice size as well.
I'm torn. Lashoff really isn't a problem for the Wings right now. In fact, he is probably a surprise. That said, I think we're kidding ourselves if we view him as any kind of long-term fixture on our blueline.

His lack of foot speed gets regularly exposed by better forwards around the edge (see Dustin Brown on Sunday).

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02-13-2013, 10:10 PM
  #636
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Cleary is still a smart player.
What does that even mean? He sure as hell makes a lot of stupid mistakes for such a "smart" player. I think you mean experienced.

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02-13-2013, 10:12 PM
  #637
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Kindl was brutal tonight, and Q isn't good enough to cover for him. The Kronwall/Lashoff pairing is also terrible. Not sure, but Kronwall's defensive rating in NHL 13 must be around 7. Not good.

But hey, Ericsson/White were pretty good- can't label me as being overly negative

Great goal and hit by Tatar in the same shift, really like how he's playing.

Cleary and Abdelkader killed the top 6. Brunner had a pretty poor game, and Flip seems to be reverting back to being a "always looking to pass, never shoot the puck" passive guy again- he did nothing to help Datsyuk carry the Cleary load tonight.

The bottom 6 had some good shifts, and Tootoo and Miller combined on a nice hustle/effort goal.

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02-13-2013, 10:13 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
Why would you not play your number one goalie after a two day layoff?

And Quincey is a top 2? In what world?
Defensively, he probably is the 2nd best defenceman on the team.

Offensively he's one of if not the worst though, and overall I'd say he's somewhere in the middle.

He leads the defence in both blocked shots and +/- so he doesn't really deserve ALL the criticism he gets during GDT's.

Some of it is valid though, he is god awful with the puck on his stick in the offensive zone, and he panics when under pressure often falling down.

He certainly had nothing to do with losing tonight's game though.

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02-13-2013, 10:13 PM
  #639
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Zetterberg gets 4 more minutes of ice time than Datsyuk tonight? That's crazy to me. And most of it was at even strength.

Babcock has his favorites and sticks to them (look no further than Cleary).

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02-13-2013, 10:14 PM
  #640
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What? Calgary has 6 goals on 16 shots?? Talk about puck luck. We coulda used that kinda production tonight. Frickin barn burner up there. Well go Flames anyways.

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02-13-2013, 10:14 PM
  #641
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It means I still see him getting in position to make plays. He just fails to execute on almost all of them. His penchant for crippling penalties is apart of this failure.

I remember thinking at least 4-5 times that Cleary was exactly where he needed to be, and then he would flub a play.

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02-13-2013, 10:17 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Austin Wings Fan View Post
It means I still see him getting in position to make plays. He just fails to execute on almost all of them. His penchant for crippling penalties is apart of this failure.

I remember thinking at least 4-5 times that Cleary was exactly where he needed to be, and then he would flub a play.
Pretty easy to do that when the opposing team is focused on Datsyuk and to a lesser extent Flip. He should know where to go. Dudes been playing hockey a long time.

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02-13-2013, 10:18 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Austin Wings Fan View Post
It means I still see him getting in position to make plays. He just fails to execute on almost all of them. His penchant for crippling penalties is apart of this failure.

I remember thinking at least 4-5 times that Cleary was exactly where he needed to be, and then he would flub a play.
I can appreciate what you are saying, but that makes Cleary even worse. He does everything right and still sucks.

I see no value in keeping Cleary on the ice. He should sit in the press box and ride off into the sunset when this season is over.

Nyquist over Cleary is such a massive upgrade that it makes me physically ill that Nyquist is still in the AHL.

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02-13-2013, 10:19 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by Austin Wings Fan View Post
I'm torn. Lashoff really isn't a problem for the Wings right now. In fact, he is probably a surprise. That said, I think we're kidding ourselves if we view him as any kind of long-term fixture on our blueline.

His lack of foot speed gets regularly exposed by better forwards around the edge (see Dustin Brown on Sunday).
He reminds me of Lebda in a way. Totally different games, but when given the opportunity, they just found a way to take advantage of it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Lashoff re-signs for around $600K and just hangs around the bottom half of our D corps for the next few years.

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02-13-2013, 10:19 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Pretty easy to do that when the opposing team is focused on Datsyuk and to a lesser extent Flip. He should know where to go. Dudes been playing hockey a long time.
A fair point. On the other hand, after watching this team for 13 games, I'm not sure we can take that for granted.

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02-13-2013, 10:20 PM
  #646
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The only thing I didn't get with moving Gator up was leaving Andersson to center the third line - which pretty effectively killed our bottom6 with regards to getting ice time, and which forced us to rely more on our top6.

I don't think it makes a huge deal which guy we plug into those lines, though, as far as how effective they would be. I like Tatar, but I would I want to see him get 18 minutes a night? Not really. Miller, Eaves, etc. ...they're not bad guys, but they're just as poor fits for the top6 as Gator and Cleary.
If you're asking me whether to give Tatar or Cleary 18 mins a night, I'm going with Tatar and it's not close. Especially in a game where the offense from the top 2 lines is non-existent for the last 2 periods.

After Tatar, I think Miller, Eaves or Tootoo would have brought more to Z's line than Abby. Miller and Eaves have shown the ability to score, and I think Tootoo has shown decent hands to match his hustle and hitting. I get that picking any of those guys isn't exactly plugging a premier winger onto Z's line, but I would have changed things up. Guess we'll see if Franzen is out again on Friday.

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02-13-2013, 10:23 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
He reminds me of Lebda in a way. Totally different games, but when given the opportunity, they just found a way to take advantage of it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Lashoff re-signs for around $600K and just hangs around the bottom half of our D corps for the next few years.
I understand the comparison, but Lashoff will never be sheltered the way Lebda was here. A large portion of that time came when we had, arguably, the best team in the league for three consecutive seasons. Lebda could play sheltered minutes and not appear terrible.

Even if Lashoff gets sheltered minutes, the large decrease in team quality could expose his flaws much faster than Ledba's ever were.

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02-13-2013, 10:28 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
Why would you not play your number one goalie after a two day layoff?

And Quincey is a top 2? In what world?
Ummm, no. If you think that then I don't know what to tell you. A top 2 is guys like Seabrook, Suter, Weber, Keith.

Quincey, Smith, Kronwall, Covo, Ericsson, White are NOT. What are you smoking?

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02-13-2013, 10:29 PM
  #649
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Abdelkader- I'm glad he had a chance in the top 6, I feel he may have the potential to be a 2nd/3rd line guy sort of like Cleary use to be, but as of right now he's just a 3rd/4th liner. He was used wrongly today, as he's top 6, he shouldn't play that grinder roll. He needed to be a net front presence guy and also it wasn't a good line, Zetterberg needed another guy to cycle the puck down low. Maybe Abdelkader would succeed more on Datsyuk and Filppula's line.

Brunner- He needs to stop starting in the OT. He is partially responsible for both OT losses. His defensive game is just too weak right now. Maybe next year he'll be better, but as of now no. His little 1 on 1 deke is nice, but he needs a variety of moves because defensemen will catch on to that very quickly.

Cleary- You still suck. You shouldn't be in the line up.

Tatar- He needs to stay up in the 3rd line the rest of the season. He brings energy to the team and I think when Helm comes back, this team will almost look like a playoff type team. He's good for 15 goals, 20 assists next year in a 82 game season on the 3rd line.

Emmerton- If he adds some upper and lower body strength and gets a little quicker (two things hard to do in the same off season), and adjusts his game a bit to more of a checker, I'll be ok with him centering the 4th line.

Howard- Come on Howie, get back to where you were last season, we obviously need it.

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02-13-2013, 10:31 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Quincey is?
Kronwall is on the ice for nearly EVERY goal scored against. Let me repeat: EVERY GOAL SCORED AGAINST. I think Kronwall is a -6 after tonights game (on the ice for 2 goals against). Kronwall is an overpaid BUM!

Quincey wasn't on the ice for any goal and is a +5.

Math, try it.

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