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All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

View Poll Results: A quarter of the way through the 2013 season, do you approve or disapprove of Torts?
Approve 168 50.45%
Disapprove 165 49.55%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-05-2013, 10:14 PM
  #551
NYR Sting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
If anything, Gaborik is the ONLY competent big free agent signing Sather has made (well, Richards signing made sense, his play this season though is making it look potentially disastrous).

Then again, I would have preferred to go into 09-10 without Gaborik and sign Kovalchuk in the 2011 offseason - he definitely would have signed here if we went after him hard enough. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
Not really. Everyone knew Kovalchuk was going to be a free agent. There were reports out of Russia that virtually guaranteed he would be as much as two years beforehand. It was another blunder by Sather. Not because Gaborik has been bad, but because he's no Kovalchuk. Better, more dynamic, less injury prone player with a smaller cap hit. And he wanted to come to the Rangers.

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03-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Not really. Everyone knew Kovalchuk was going to be a free agent. There were reports out of Russia that virtually guaranteed he would be as much as two years beforehand. It was another blunder by Sather. Not because Gaborik has been bad, but because he's no Kovalchuk. Better, more dynamic, less injury prone player with a smaller cap hit. And he wanted to come to the Rangers.
True.

Imagining Kovalchuk and Nash on the same team is just....man.

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03-05-2013, 10:20 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
True.

Imagining Kovalchuk and Nash on the same team is just....man.
Would have to split those two up. Not nearly enough puck.

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Old
03-05-2013, 10:49 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Like I said, talk about a strawman . . .
Wow, just when I think you can't get any more absurd you suggest no one was calling for Torts to be fired.

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03-05-2013, 10:51 PM
  #555
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People wishing the Rangers had signed Kovalchuk.

Sigh...

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03-05-2013, 11:41 PM
  #556
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I'll add not locking up Prust before hitting free agency to our fearless leaders list of blunders.

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03-05-2013, 11:44 PM
  #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
If anything, Gaborik is the ONLY competent big free agent signing Sather has made (well, Richards signing made sense, his play this season though is making it look potentially disastrous).

Then again, I would have preferred to go into 09-10 without Gaborik and sign Kovalchuk in the 2011 offseason - he definitely would have signed here if we went after him hard enough. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
Considering the inevitable trade to a contender there was zero guarantee we could have signed him. There wasn't a guarantee he would hit free agency. Just that he wouldn't resign with Atlanta.

Gaborik was the smart play.

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03-05-2013, 11:56 PM
  #558
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Okay, before this goes any further off topic.

Sather and Torts.

Sather and Torts.

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03-06-2013, 05:25 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Wow, just when I think you can't get any more absurd you suggest no one was calling for Torts to be fired.
I'm not suggesting that at all. I was merely commenting on how quickly you ran away from the Sather crap. The attempt to play forum hero for making everyone "see the light" didn't pan out exactly as you had hoped, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Considering the inevitable trade to a contender there was zero guarantee we could have signed him. There wasn't a guarantee he would hit free agency. Just that he wouldn't resign with Atlanta.

Gaborik was the smart play.
There were several tv reports out of Russia over the span of several years that included interviews with Kovalchuk, his representation, and other people that had connections to him (players/coaches) where it was strongly implied that he was interested primarily in playing for the Rangers or the Kings, and that he was going to do what he could to try and go to one of those two teams. I personally remember seeing at least three such reports. And, of course, when the Devils dealt for him, hitting free agency is exactly what he did, because he didn't really want to go to NJ. He still tried to get to the Kings. NJ didn't even give all that impressive a deal for him when they traded for him. Why'd the end up getting him? Because a lot of teams weren't interested in trading for him as they were probably aware that he wasn't interested in re-signing with them after the season.

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03-06-2013, 07:01 AM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
If anything, Gaborik is the ONLY competent big free agent signing Sather has made (well, Richards signing made sense, his play this season though is making it look potentially disastrous).

Then again, I would have preferred to go into 09-10 without Gaborik and sign Kovalchuk in the 2011 offseason - he definitely would have signed here if we went after him hard enough. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
It seems to me that Kovalchuk would have driven Tortorella and this board nuts with his complete lack of defensive play.

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03-06-2013, 07:09 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by aim2win View Post
It seems to me that Kovalchuk would have driven Tortorella and this board nuts with his complete lack of defensive play.
his defensive play isn't any worse than gabby's was when he came here and his other assets are much better translated into our system. just feels like gabby has no space to do anything and kovi is on every night whereas gabby needs the stars to align

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03-06-2013, 07:19 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by aim2win View Post
It seems to me that Kovalchuk would have driven Tortorella and this board nuts with his complete lack of defensive play.
see now this is exactly the problem with this team. torts has permeated everything within this organization and its fans. the koolaide has been consumed.

somehow, a dominant offensive player who doesnt think D first is deemed to be cancerous while 2 way defensive guys are the bomb.

anyone, and i mean anyone, not wanting kovy and his rocket shot, deft passing, and power skating abilities on this team is just. plain. silly.

kovy v. gaby. not even close. i would say gaby is more one dimensional. kovy is still downright scary. gaby... not so much any more.

and what he could have done for this anemic woeful pp.... sigh

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03-06-2013, 11:16 AM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
There were several tv reports out of Russia over the span of several years that included interviews with Kovalchuk, his representation, and other people that had connections to him (players/coaches) where it was strongly implied that he was interested primarily in playing for the Rangers or the Kings, and that he was going to do what he could to try and go to one of those two teams. I personally remember seeing at least three such reports. And, of course, when the Devils dealt for him, hitting free agency is exactly what he did, because he didn't really want to go to NJ. He still tried to get to the Kings. NJ didn't even give all that impressive a deal for him when they traded for him. Why'd the end up getting him? Because a lot of teams weren't interested in trading for him as they were probably aware that he wasn't interested in re-signing with them after the season.
I still don't see anything that resembles a guarantee. You could sink a Russian supertanker with the amount of players who were reported to be interested signing here or there and ended up somewhere else. No one knew where he would be traded and what kind of money people would throw at him.

Its a moot point anyway. The Rangers could have made a move for him if they wanted to trade for or sign him and they never showed any real interest. Torts saw a ton of him during his time in TB. My guess is for whatever reason he was not much of a fan.

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03-06-2013, 11:46 AM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
see now this is exactly the problem with this team. torts has permeated everything within this organization and its fans. the koolaide has been consumed.

somehow, a dominant offensive player who doesnt think D first is deemed to be cancerous while 2 way defensive guys are the bomb.

anyone, and i mean anyone, not wanting kovy and his rocket shot, deft passing, and power skating abilities on this team is just. plain. silly.

kovy v. gaby. not even close. i would say gaby is more one dimensional. kovy is still downright scary. gaby... not so much any more.

and what he could have done for this anemic woeful pp.... sigh
There's a lot to like/admire/envy about Kovy's game... no doubt.

I didn't mean to imply that he was cancerous... just stated that his lack of defensive play would have driven Torts and this board nuts.

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03-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
his defensive play isn't any worse than gabby's was when he came here and his other assets are much better translated into our system. just feels like gabby has no space to do anything and kovi is on every night whereas gabby needs the stars to align
Gabby started off in the league playing under Jacques Lemaire at Minnesota. Lemaire has always been a defense first coach

It seems reasonable that Gabby's background made him more suited to transition to a NYR team headed by John Tortorella than Kovy's experience with Atlanta.

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03-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I'm not suggesting that at all. I was merely commenting on how quickly you ran away from the Sather crap. The attempt to play forum hero for making everyone "see the light" didn't pan out exactly as you had hoped, I guess.
My response to what you last said about sather is going to be much longer than 7 words I wrote about Torts. Just hold on buddy, you'll get your response soon. I've just been busy with work. Once Friday comes I'll definitely be able to find the time.


Last edited by Kel Varnsen: 03-06-2013 at 02:06 PM.
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03-06-2013, 03:11 PM
  #567
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Torts really has taken too much criticism here. The guy had no training camp with new faces in a shortened season, and then a plethora of injuries to boot. Granted richards was out last game, asham is still hurt, and now staal will be out, but when you have a defense that had been missing mcdonagh and del zotto as well as nash being out its pretty hard to win. But you get them back, rattle off 3 wins and you're right back in it. Get a 4th win on thursday against the isles and keep the training moving north.

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Old
03-06-2013, 03:13 PM
  #568
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Torts really has taken too much criticism here. The guy had no training camp with new faces in a shortened season, and then a plethora of injuries to boot. Granted richards was out last game, asham is still hurt, and now staal will be out, but when you have a defense that had been missing mcdonagh and del zotto as well as nash being out its pretty hard to win. But you get them back, rattle off 3 wins and you're right back in it. Get a 4th win on thursday against the isles and keep the training moving north.
Yea, but in fairness to those whiners, most of them waited an entire 15 games to call for his firing.

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03-06-2013, 03:17 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yea, but in fairness to those whiners, most of them waited an entire 15 games to call for his firing.
Ha. I know. 15 long games because the word patience is a regular absentee from these boards.

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03-06-2013, 03:24 PM
  #570
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Winning or not, I am still not particularly fond of the guy or his style. If he is winning though it's hard to make an argument for why he isn't a good coach let alone why he should be fired.

However the team has looked completely different since getting Nash back. How much does John have to do with that? I'm not sure it even matters. There could be a cardboard cutout behind the bench and as long as they are winning, so be it.

Edit: Not even winning, but playing like a god damn team with the level of talent this team has.

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03-06-2013, 03:36 PM
  #571
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Winning or not, I am still not particularly fond of the guy or his style. If he is winning though it's hard to make an argument for why he isn't a good coach let alone why he should be fired.

However the team has looked completely different since getting Nash back. How much does John have to do with that? I'm not sure it even matters. There could be a cardboard cutout behind the bench and as long as they are winning, so be it.

Edit: Not even winning, but playing like a god damn team with the level of talent this team has.
If you cant respect the job Tortorella has done with this team, especially over the last 18 months or so, then I'd venture to guess you wouldnt be happy with his replacement either, or the guy after that, or the guy after that.

I was skeptical when he came in because I thought Renney got a raw deal, and I was put off by Torts' demeanor. But the players respect him and they lay it all out on the line most nights. And if they dont, they're gone. Hes won me over in that regard after watching a country club atmosphere on the ice virtually since Keenan left.That goes beyond a system, or how hes handling your favorite prospect, or whatever else.

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03-06-2013, 04:00 PM
  #572
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I hate him . He has many pluses and gets a lot out of some players . I don't like his bench shortening or lack of patience with players he doesn't trust . I also am turned of to his egotism and sore loser attitude and with this he comes off as classless . The Avery ship has sailed but the reality is we could have used him last playoffs but Torts cast him away. Alas he's entrenched himself here with Gordie and Gorton and isn't going anywhere anytime soon .
As for the Kreider thing the performance of Richards and Gaborik are as my h to blame for CK not being able to be given more of a learning curve . NYR start this season and subsequent injuries made it difficult to bring along an inconsistent unconfident rookie . Torts isn't giving minutes to anyone he doesn't trust and rather run his players into the ground then go against his nature .

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03-06-2013, 04:09 PM
  #573
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you cant respect the job Tortorella has done with this team, especially over the last 18 months or so, then I'd venture to guess you wouldnt be happy with his replacement either, or the guy after that, or the guy after that.

I was skeptical when he came in because I thought Renney got a raw deal, and I was put off by Torts' demeanor. But the players respect him and they lay it all out on the line most nights. And if they dont, they're gone. Hes won me over in that regard after watching a country club atmosphere on the ice virtually since Keenan left.That goes beyond a system, or how hes handling your favorite prospect, or whatever else.
Every coach will have their ups and downs. So, in a sense yes, there will never be THE perfect coach, and again winning can do a lot for a guy who otherwise has flaws in his coaching.

I think he was consistently out-coached in every play-off series last year just on his inability to adapt alone when the other coaches were adapting to the Rangers. There's no reason the OTT and WSH series' needed to go 7. I put some of that on his coaching.

I don't like how he handles the team having a bad night, be it benchings, or jumbling otherwise good lines. I don't like his insistence to play some players regardless of mistakes until they are so bad it's unavoidable (IE Richards/Boyle), and bench others after farting during a line change.

I do respect what he got this team to do last year in the regular season, and he definitely deserved every Jack Adams vote he got. However I want to see what he does this year in the playoffs before I decidedly say one way or another if I like him insofar as I think this team can win with him.

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03-06-2013, 04:11 PM
  #574
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I hate him . He has many pluses and gets a lot out of some players . I don't like his bench shortening or lack of patience with players he doesn't trust . I also am turned of to his egotism and sore loser attitude and with this he comes off as classless . The Avery ship has sailed but the reality is we could have used him last playoffs but Torts cast him away. Alas he's entrenched himself here with Gordie and Gorton and isn't going anywhere anytime soon .
As for the Kreider thing the performance of Richards and Gaborik are as my h to blame for CK not being able to be given more of a learning curve . NYR start this season and subsequent injuries made it difficult to bring along an inconsistent unconfident rookie . Torts isn't giving minutes to anyone he doesn't trust and rather run his players into the ground then go against his nature .
Your only 2 specific examples (Avery and Kreider) were/are glaring problems to the majority of the fanbase.

You dont like him because he didnt have Avery for the playoffs last year? What a strange world we live in.

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03-06-2013, 04:16 PM
  #575
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If the two biggest knocks on Torts is the way he treated Avery and the way he's treating Kreider, than he's done a great job.

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