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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Sens

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:15 PM
  #276
Crafton
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Last thought on the whole skate incident with Cooke.

Simple reason asks if it were intentional, why? We see the Sens what? Once a year unless it were the playoffs. And that team if pretty flawed we would want them to make the playoffs and maybe play them. If it were Giroux or Hartnell, well you could make the argument of history, hate and rivalry I suppose. But the Sens and EK? What possible reason would there be? Anyone with an ounce of sense can see that it makes no sense to believe that Cooke did that intentionally. Aside from the video showing it, there is absolutely no reason he would.
as a lawyer i'm sure you enjoyed that one poster on the mainboards trying to reconstitute that old stand-by from **** cases - the primal urge theory. belly-laugh inducing.

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02-14-2013, 12:16 PM
  #277
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In case any of you missed the NHL's official take on this:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415971

Summary: it's not even worth investigating or talking to Cooke about it. In this climate of calling everything and suspensions there's no way they reach that conclusion if they think something suspect was going on. Especially not with Cooke and the other guy involved being a new star in this league. Sorry but there's no way they would cut Cooke 1 ounce of slack on that if they thought it was even a little bit intentional.

Just a heads up. I'll probably be closing this thread later today because it will serve no purpose other than to further generate debate and possibly hostility from others who read it, on something that's not worthy of much debate by the NHL's own admission and by TSN and others as well. Once everyone has had a say we need to shut 'er down and move on.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:53 PM
  #278
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Only thing that I really didn't like last night was puck management. Not sure what our guys are thinking on the PP when they stare eachother down cross ice, and then try passing the puck to them.
They moved the puck as well as they've had in a long time. I got dizzy a couple of times trying to figure out who was standing where. This is a good thing.

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02-14-2013, 01:00 PM
  #279
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They moved the puck as well as they've had in a long time. I got dizzy a couple of times trying to figure out who was standing where. This is a good thing.
Puck movement is good. You can move the puck without trying to pass right in the middle of the box of the powerplay where it's getting picked off, or doing drop passes when you have a shot, or triple clutching when you have no one standing in front of you.

The powerplay can take calculated risks. Firing pucks across the box when everyone knows it's coming is not a good idea.

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02-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #280
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Why is Neil not being discussed as far as suspensions go?

Am I the only one who thought his 2min remaining punching of Cooke was worse than Cooke's careless skate? Doesn't his game misconduct demand a 1 game suspension?

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02-14-2013, 01:10 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Why is Neil not being discussed as far as suspensions go?

Am I the only one who thought his 2min remaining punching of Cooke was worse than Cooke's careless skate? Doesn't his game misconduct demand a 1 game suspension?
Technically it should have been a fight and an automatic suspension and fine for him and his coach. It was obvious that Neil was sent to do just that with 2 minutes left, which is exactly what the rule talks about.

That said there is a hockey code. They knew by then EK was done, and the expectation is that Cooke steps up and fights as a result, accident or not. The Pens should have jumped Steckle after the concussion he game Crosby and beat the hell out of him. And no one would have said boo if they had. I have no problem with the Sens or Neil in this case. That is hockey and I am sure Cooke would say the same.

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:17 PM
  #282
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what court of law is this? Idi Amin's backyard boxing ring?
My point I guess is prejudice exists.

Only people in Pittsburgh will give him the benefit of the doubt, you ytpically support your players. You can watch countless videos of Cooke's highlight reels that while I know to pin a guy up against the boards is a common hockey play, the fact that it is Matt Cooke, it does could many Sens fans judgement.

I don't wish any illwill on Pens players other than Cooke. That's silly. This is a game after all. I know the city os up in arms, talk radio is on fire, etc...

I am curious to the "incidental" play that took Crosby concussed with Steckel. Steckel has no record of anything and yet many feel he did it on purpose. For the record I do, it was no different on how Cooke was looking the other way when he hit Savard, he is a sick, messed up guy. He knew where Savard was and what he was going to do. Now, you put in Lapierre, Marchand or Burrows in place of Steckel and you kinda see where we are coming from.

Anyways most of us appreciate the empathy as you know what it feels like to lose a star player and of course with Spezza gone for the season, Cowen, we will slowly sink to the bottom.

By the way, is Vitale the fastest player on your team? Man, that guy can flat out skate.

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:20 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coladin View Post
My point I guess is prejudice exists.

Only people in Pittsburgh will give him the benefit of the doubt, you ytpically support your players. You can watch countless videos of Cooke's highlight reels that while I know to pin a guy up against the boards is a common hockey play, the fact that it is Matt Cooke, it does could many Sens fans judgement.

I don't wish any illwill on Pens players other than Cooke. That's silly. This is a game after all. I know the city os up in arms, talk radio is on fire, etc...

I am curious to the "incidental" play that took Crosby concussed with Steckel. Steckel has no record of anything and yet many feel he did it on purpose. For the record I do, it was no different on how Cooke was looking the other way when he hit Savard, he is a sick, messed up guy. He knew where Savard was and what he was going to do. Now, you put in Lapierre, Marchand or Burrows in place of Steckel and you kinda see where we are coming from.

Anyways most of us appreciate the empathy as you know what it feels like to lose a star player and of course with Spezza gone for the season, Cowen, we will slowly sink to the bottom.

By the way, is Vitale the fastest player on your team? Man, that guy can flat out skate.
Vitale is God incarnate. Saying he can flat out skate is an understatement. He can do whatever he wants.

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02-14-2013, 01:24 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coladin View Post
My point I guess is prejudice exists.

Only people in Pittsburgh will give him the benefit of the doubt, you ytpically support your players. You can watch countless videos of Cooke's highlight reels that while I know to pin a guy up against the boards is a common hockey play, the fact that it is Matt Cooke, it does could many Sens fans judgement.

I don't wish any illwill on Pens players other than Cooke. That's silly. This is a game after all. I know the city os up in arms, talk radio is on fire, etc...

I am curious to the "incidental" play that took Crosby concussed with Steckel. Steckel has no record of anything and yet many feel he did it on purpose. For the record I do, it was no different on how Cooke was looking the other way when he hit Savard, he is a sick, messed up guy. He knew where Savard was and what he was going to do. Now, you put in Lapierre, Marchand or Burrows in place of Steckel and you kinda see where we are coming from.

Anyways most of us appreciate the empathy as you know what it feels like to lose a star player and of course with Spezza gone for the season, Cowen, we will slowly sink to the bottom.

By the way, is Vitale the fastest player on your team? Man, that guy can flat out skate.
We understand the need to vent. We all know Cooke's history which despite the attempts, successful to this point, to change over the past couple of years, will be used against him.

But like I said above logically it makes no sense that he would do that on purpose. He has zero history with the Sens, who we barely play, and especially with EK, who he has seen, what? Once before? It makes zero sense that he would go after him in any way. Savard was at a different time in hockey, and with Cooke. He was going for the huge hit as he always would. He has not done that for two years now. Honestly much to the chagrin of many here. It has reduced a lot of the grit he used to bring. Another reason why it logically makes no sense. There is really nothing to point to this being anything but a horrific accident, that we as a fan base, who lost the best player in the NHL for two years over another accident certainly have empathy with you all over.

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:26 PM
  #285
Mr Jiggyfly
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By the way, is Vitale the fastest player on your team? Man, that guy can flat out skate.
You are very wise and Joe will look down upon you with favor.

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02-14-2013, 01:38 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
We understand the need to vent. We all know Cooke's history which despite the attempts, successful to this point, to change over the past couple of years, will be used against him.

But like I said above logically it makes no sense that he would do that on purpose. He has zero history with the Sens, who we barely play, and especially with EK, who he has seen, what? Once before? It makes zero sense that he would go after him in any way. Savard was at a different time in hockey, and with Cooke. He was going for the huge hit as he always would. He has not done that for two years now. Honestly much to the chagrin of many here. It has reduced a lot of the grit he used to bring. Another reason why it logically makes no sense. There is really nothing to point to this being anything but a horrific accident, that we as a fan base, who lost the best player in the NHL for two years over another accident certainly have empathy with you all over.
He may have zero history but I just watched a "highlight reel" where he preys on stars ( or key players) ...we have all seen it: Sundin, Lecavalier, Savard, Markov, Cole, Stamkos, Karlsson. He used his skate to kick Osgood in the head. The vid shows him kicking up the skate of a Wild defenceman, very similar to what he did and the guy when flying into the boards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0waePHWjVGY look at 14 seconds...was this his intent?

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02-14-2013, 01:44 PM
  #287
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You are very wise and Joe will look down upon you with favor.

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:49 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
My point I guess is prejudice exists.

Only people in Pittsburgh will give him the benefit of the doubt, you ytpically support your players. You can watch countless videos of Cooke's highlight reels that while I know to pin a guy up against the boards is a common hockey play, the fact that it is Matt Cooke, it does could many Sens fans judgement.
i don't think that's the case at all. lots of pens fans look at Cooke with a critical eye. he isn't a beloved figure by any stretch of the imagination. i hope EK fully recovers and has a great career. watching a beloved star get injured is hard to deal with, but i have little sympathy for fans who wish injury on anyone in search of some vague notion of retribution. better to focus your thoughts on prayer for EK than to seethe with bitterness.

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02-14-2013, 01:56 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
He has zero history with the Sens, who we barely play, and especially with EK, who he has seen, what? Once before? It makes zero sense that he would go after him in any way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBtCba_fa4Q


I don't disagree with the general points in your post, but I just wanted to post this in response to Cooke having no history with Karlsson.

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02-14-2013, 02:02 PM
  #290
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Cooke isn't exactly a fan fav here. I don't think anyone defends his past but people here give him credit for changing his ways the past couple years. The hit in question on Karlsson wasn't considered dirty by anyone credible. All the former players I've heard said it was a hockey play and an accident. The only people complaining are the Sens, their fans and Cooke haters.

The game's culture sometimes turns certain players into monsters. Some players are instructed to play on the edge and some guys can do a good job of that and some guys like Cooke will try to push the limits and they wind up going way overboard. He's been much more under control the past few years though.

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Old
02-14-2013, 02:08 PM
  #291
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Vitale is God incarnate. Saying he can flat out skate is an understatement. He can do whatever he wants.
Joe Vitale doesn't skate, the ice moves out of his way.

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02-14-2013, 02:23 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Why is Neil not being discussed as far as suspensions go?

Am I the only one who thought his 2min remaining punching of Cooke was worse than Cooke's careless skate? Doesn't his game misconduct demand a 1 game suspension?
Thats what he's supposed to do and I hate that the Pens have gotten away from that. It happened again last night and it seems like every team is going after Sid. He's taking to much abuse both verbally and physically this year.

As for the puck movement on the PP, thats exactly what the Pens have been lacking for years. Now the goalie has to move more to follow the puck and any shot taken becomes that much more efective.

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02-14-2013, 02:26 PM
  #293
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Thats what he's supposed to do and I hate that the Pens have gotten away from that. It happened again last night and it seems like every team is going after Sid. He's taking to much abuse both verbally and physically this year.

As for the puck movement on the PP, thats exactly what the Pens have been lacking for years. Now the goalie has to move more to follow the puck and any shot taken becomes that much more efective.
Isn't that why DB actually put Glass on Sid's line for a few shifts after Karlsson got injured?

Also there was one point where Neil was trying to coax Engelland into dropping em but the refs for some stupid reason got in the way. Would've been a nice tilt to watch.

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02-14-2013, 02:28 PM
  #294
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Isn't that why DB actually put Glass on Sid's line for a few shifts after Karlsson got injured?

Also there was one point where Neil was trying to coax Engelland into dropping em but the refs for some stupid reason got in the way. Would've been a nice tilt to watch.
Neil wasn't trying to coax ****.

Engelland went up to him to put an end to the nonsense, and Neal copped out.

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02-14-2013, 03:30 PM
  #295
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And on that note... I'm going to shut 'er down.

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