HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Sens

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-13-2013, 09:47 PM
  #101
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Bertuzzi chased Moore around, caught him with a big punch and rode him down.

Neil chased Cooke around, hacking at him and clocked him when he got the chance.

Pretty similar though obviously different results.
Uh, Neil punched Cooke from in front. Bertuzzi punched Moore from behind and then jumped on him as he was falling. Calling that 'pretty similar' is a pretty big stretch.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:49 PM
  #102
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Somehow Bylsma has ****ed this team. How you can screw a team with this much talent up so bad? i have no idea. I guess you got to suck that bad at coaching.
I'm not going there.

I'm supposed to celebrate with blinders on a 'decisive' win against a team missing six of its top players by the end of the game.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:50 PM
  #103
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in The Flood
 
Ragamuffin Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 18,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Really got to give props to Dan Bylsma for thinking outside the box on this one. Put a guy like Cooke, who can lead a forecheck and goes to the net, out there with Geno and Neal, so that Geno and Neal could play to their respective strengths as playmaker and sniper (searching for soft spots). That's why he's the best coach in hockey.
Cooke is basically Kunitz-lite (super-lite?) so putting him on that line makes too much sense to try it in the first 13 games of the season.

Now we just need to figure out how to convince DB to dress DJ over TK or Glass.

Ragamuffin Gunner is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:51 PM
  #104
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Uh, Neil punched Cooke from in front. Bertuzzi punched Moore from behind and then jumped on him as he was falling. Calling that 'pretty similar' is a pretty big stretch.
Matt Martin on Talbot was more closer to Bertuzzi, then Neil on Cooke was. That punch that Talbot ducked was REALLY close to the same.

66-29-33 is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:52 PM
  #105
Tender Rip
#Haz supa line mates
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,927
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
- to Bylsma's misuse of his D

It's great that Martin and Orpik need to play a lot (and deservedly so), but instead of easing Letang and Niskanen in, he crammed the minutes on them. At some point, sticking Simon out there and giving one a breather would have been a smarter idea (like when they rolled 4 D for almost the entire final 10 minutes).
I originally wrote almost exactly this also, but deleted it on account of not wanting to seem too religious about my misgivings with Bylsma.

But now that you mention it, this is part of the problem we have with getting young players integrated. Instead of rewarding Despres for GREAT play in this game and his last many outings, he gets less than 11 minutes and ZERO special teams time, while we ride the top 4 which except for Martin did not have a particularly good day. With Letang and Nisky coming right back to heavy minutes after having been out injured.

Tender Rip is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:53 PM
  #106
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Matter
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Darkness
Country: United States
Posts: 26,509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
james neal is jonathan cheechoo part deux. decent player on his own. big time leach.
No offense but this is one of the most inaccurate things posted on this board in a while. All snipers find empty space, wait and then and bury pucks when they get them, but Neal does a lot of other good things for the team even when he's not scoring as much. He back-checks / steals pucks like a MF, hits people, creates space for his linemates. He's way more rounded than Cheechoo ever was. He also works much harder at keeping himself in physically good shape IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
+ Cooke is the best wing Geno and Neal have had all year. I feel like I called that months ago
He was and you did, and he's a good stop-gap but not something that can last IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
why was cooke's left foot in the air and behind karlsson's?

that was a strange play. i dont think it was intentional, but it's a rather suspicious play from a dirty player, kinda like subban cutting staal back in that habs series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
He was trying to put him off balance by lifting his leg with his knee. Pretty standard play when you're putting a guy into the boards.
This part I agree with TEOT; it was a really strange looking play. I just can't connect those dots though. Matt Cooke has made some dirty plays in his career but no one, and I mean NO ONE intentionally goes after other players with the skate blade. It's just not done, even by the gooniest of goons.

At worst we can call it a careless play if he was in fact trying to throw Karlsson off balance by pushing his leg from behind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Neil's attack, shades of Bertuzzi, no?
Not even remotely close. Bertuzzi stalked the guy on the ice, game up directly behind him and drilled him in the back of the head with his glove on. The glove part is the only similarity here. He was facing Cooke, shoving Cooke... if Cooke had wanted to he could've protected himself or fought back but he held himself in check because he knew if he went at it, it would just add gasoline to the fire for what happened earlier.

Anyway, my + and -

+ Finally found a stop-gap for Geno and Neal's line although don't know what the Game Misconduct was about at the end for Cooke or if he'll get dinged for it. Is it against the rules to let yourself be used as a punching bag?? Another bizarre part of this game thanks to the refs.

+ Puck movement on PP was much better tonight than at some points in the recent past. The spacing adjustments they used seemed to keep Ottawa off balance. We'll see if it works on the next team.

+ Win at home. I'll take any we can get although even with Karlsson in there, Spezza and Michalek were out and that's a big chunk of their offense. As it is, Ottawa just became the leader for the MacKinnon sweepstakes IMO.

- Karlsson injury. ****ing brutal. Don't like to see that happen to anyone, let alone such an important player to the league and a young team.

- The inevitable Matt Cooke **** storm that will follow. Although one thing that also makes me think it wasn't intentional... even Mike Milbury and Keith Jones couldn't bring themselves to say it was intentional, and they are about as anti-Pens / anti-Cooke as it gets in terms of national media.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:54 PM
  #107
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Matt Martin on Talbot was more closer to Bertuzzi, then Neil on Cooke was. That punch that Talbot ducked was REALLY close to the same.
Good comparison.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:55 PM
  #108
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 15,531
vCash: 500
Neil did exactly what he's supposed to. Someone takes out your best player, you don't ask if it was an accident. You shouldn't care.


Anyhoo

+ Boychuk off the first line. Scratch him next game and there'll be two pluses.

+ powerplay. Looks like that's tentatively solved. It's looked good enough long enough for me to feel comfy

- don't know what to do about it but I want Bort back in the lineup

- I don't think this was a convincing win. I think Karlsson got hurt and the Sens fell to pieces.

billybudd is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:56 PM
  #109
Pancakes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,470
vCash: 500
Anyone else think James Neal has a legit shot at the Rocket Richard? He's got Geno and Sid feeding him all day on the powerplay and Malkin's line hasn't even found a great LW for even strength situations yet. If Beau Bennett or someone else starts clicking there how many more goals and points will Neal get?

Pancakes is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:56 PM
  #110
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Neil did exactly what he's supposed to. Someone takes out your best player, you don't ask if it was an accident. You shouldn't care.


Anyhoo

+ Boychuk off the first line. Scratch him next game and there'll be two pluses.

+ powerplay. Looks like that's tentatively solved. It's looked good enough long enough for me to feel comfy

- don't know what to do about it but I want Bort back in the lineup

- I don't think this was a convincing win. I think Karlsson got hurt and the Sens fell to pieces.
Really?

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 09:58 PM
  #111
Warm Cookies
The Dynamic Duo
 
Warm Cookies's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 47,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
This part I agree with TEOT; it was a really strange looking play. I just can't connect those dots though. Matt Cooke has made some dirty plays in his career but no one, and I mean NO ONE intentionally goes after other players with the skate blade. It's just not done, even by the gooniest of goons.

At worst we can call it a careless play if he was in fact trying to throw Karlsson off balance by pushing his leg from behind.
To be honest, it's not even careless. TSN made a point of highlighting two identical plays from the first 5 minutes of the Flames/Stars game. It's a standard play that had a terrible, accidental consequence.

Warm Cookies is online now  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:00 PM
  #112
froods
Millerrrrrrr!!!
 
froods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
why was cooke's left foot in the air and behind karlsson's?

that was a strange play. i dont think it was intentional, but it's a rather suspicious play from a dirty player, kinda like subban cutting staal back in that habs series.

also about neal-cheecho... its not really a diss. neal is a leach, but an excellent one.

and before playing with thornton, cheecho had a 28 goal season, slightly more than neal ever did in dallas.
Listen to Aaron Ward's explanation on TSN. It makes sense why Cooke lifted his leg.

froods is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:00 PM
  #113
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 15,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Really?
Just the powerplay? Yeah. It's not Philly in last years' playoffs, but I'm okay with what it's generating since Martin was put on it.

billybudd is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:01 PM
  #114
Random Oracle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,797
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Really?
Pens' PP is what, 2nd or 3rd best in the league and they had essentially 2 PP goals this game. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement but it's looked pretty good to me.

Random Oracle is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:02 PM
  #115
froods
Millerrrrrrr!!!
 
froods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Cooke is basically Kunitz-lite (super-lite?) so putting him on that line makes too much sense to try it in the first 13 games of the season.

Now we just need to figure out how to convince DB to dress DJ over TK or Glass.
Over Glass? Do you watch that guy at all? He is a great penalty killer and a perfect 4th liner. He is also 12th in the league in hits.

froods is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:03 PM
  #116
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
To be honest, it's not even careless. TSN made a point of highlighting two identical plays from the first 5 minutes of the Flames/Stars game. It's a standard play that had a terrible, accidental consequence.
And that would've been the universal conclusion but for one minor 'factor' in some people's eyes.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:04 PM
  #117
MtlPenFan
Registered User
 
MtlPenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Oracle View Post
Pens' PP is what, 2nd or 3rd best in the league and they had essentially 2 PP goals this game. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement but it's looked pretty good to me.
No, it's still terrible. Everything is a fluke.

MtlPenFan is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:05 PM
  #118
Til the End of Time
Registered User
 
Til the End of Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buenos Aires
Posts: 7,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
No offense but this is one of the most inaccurate things posted on this board in a while. All snipers find empty space, wait and then and bury pucks when they get them, but Neal does a lot of other good things for the team even when he's not scoring as much. He back-checks / steals pucks like a MF, hits people, creates space for his linemates. He's way more rounded than Cheechoo ever was. He also works much harder at keeping himself in physically good shape IMO.
their styles aren't similar, but the end results are the same. cheecho/neal--above average players on their own that put up star-caliber numbers when playing with elite playmakers.

i also think you are overrating neal and underrating cheecho. neal can backcheck well when he wants but hes pretty bad in his own zone. non-existent passing skills.

and cheecho was known for his gritty play and all-around game before big joe came to town. he was a valuable player before his richard year.

anyway i dont want to really talk too much more about this.

basically i think neal is great at making the most of the opportunities that malkin provides, but i wish he could create more on his own.

Til the End of Time is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:05 PM
  #119
Warm Cookies
The Dynamic Duo
 
Warm Cookies's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 47,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
And that would've been the universal conclusion but for one minor 'factor' in some people's eyes.
Meh, tensions are high. Cooke's hated and the Sens are decimated.

I'd probably get angry and say something stupid too.

Warm Cookies is online now  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:07 PM
  #120
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
No, it's still terrible. Everything is a fluke.
Oh no, it's perfect. I asked 'really?' because I think it's been great.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:08 PM
  #121
MtlPenFan
Registered User
 
MtlPenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,612
vCash: 500
I had my league game and of course, I go to the arena lounge with 3 minutes left and see Neal go after Cooke and thinking "Oh Jeez, what did he do now..."

Then the TSN panel came on after the game and showed the replay but the volume was off so I had no idea what their thoughts were.

I felt horrible driving home, but i KNEW that the Sens would be whining about intent, and so would that mush mouth GM of theirs. I also made a bet with myself that the main board would already have over 30 pages by the time I got home.

Needless to say, I'm buying myself a Nexus 7 tomorrow.

MtlPenFan is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:09 PM
  #122
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Matter
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Darkness
Country: United States
Posts: 26,509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
To be honest, it's not even careless. TSN made a point of highlighting two identical plays from the first 5 minutes of the Flames/Stars game. It's a standard play that had a terrible, accidental consequence.
That's actually reassuring. If TSN is trying to back up Matt Cooke (which they have no reason to do that), then I'm on board with that theory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Meh, tensions are high. Cooke's hated and the Sens are decimated.

I'd probably get angry and say something stupid too.
Also true. And let's be honest; if Cooke was a reformed player on their team and not ours, and did that to Letang, there are plenty of people in here who would be losing their minds right now. I don't blame Sens fans for being angry / questioning things. Their GM / coach aren't helping matters either.

Just sucks all around... although it may well pay a big dividend (MacKinnon).

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:09 PM
  #123
MtlPenFan
Registered User
 
MtlPenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Meh, tensions are high. Cooke's hated and the Sens are decimated.

I'd probably get angry and say something stupid too.
**** that.

I don't think a single member of the Pens organization said a damn word about intent after the Steckel hit.

I felt bad for the Sens and their fans but right now? I could give a **** about what happens to any of them.

MtlPenFan is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:10 PM
  #124
froods
Millerrrrrrr!!!
 
froods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
their styles aren't similar, but the end results are the same. cheecho/neal--above average players on their own that put up star-caliber numbers when playing with elite playmakers.

i also think you are overrating neal and underrating cheecho. neal can backcheck well when he wants but hes pretty bad in his own zone. non-existent passing skills.

and cheecho was known for his gritty play and all-around game before big joe came to town. he was a valuable player before his richard year.

anyway i dont want to really talk too much more about this.

basically i think neal is great at making the most of the opportunities that malkin provides, but i wish he could create more on his own.
Yea, I hate the comparison as well. James Neal was a 20+ goal scorer in his first two seasons in the league on a non-playoff team. He was going to be an all-star caliber player no matter where he went.

froods is offline  
Old
02-13-2013, 10:10 PM
  #125
Tender Rip
#Haz supa line mates
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,927
vCash: 500
You're overdoing the sarcasm, KIRK

Tender Rip is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.