I'd gladly take Mueller, Wolski and Boyes off that list if we only restrict ourselves to lower cap hit forwards.
I would have too. I still can't believe Boyes signed for that much. I know he has slowed down since his two or three good seasons, but the guy can still play. I would have been psyched if Homer had given him probably somewhere in $3-$4 million range. Mueller and Wolski I would have preffered over Feds too, but not as much as Boyes.
Here's a short list of FA's we "missed out on" while waiting for Suter and Parise..
do you guys see any FA's (who switched teams) that we should have signed? here's my quick runthru..
Fwd)
7mill: Alexander Semin
4.5mill: Olli Jokinen, Ray Whitney or Jaromir Jagr
~4mill: PA Parenteau or Jiri Hudler
~2mill: P.Mueller, D.Winnik, D.Moss, B.Pouliot, G.Latendresse, B.Prust, S.Sullivan
~1mill: Brad Boyes, Taylor Pyatt, Wojtek Wolski or Jeff Halpern
Def)
4.6mill: Jason Garrison
3.7mill: Sami Salo, Sheldon Souray or Bryan Allen
~2mill: Michal Rozsival, Joe Corvo, Adrian Aucoin, C.Colaiacovo or Greg Zanon
1.5mill: Francis Bouillon
(both Brad Stuart and Dennis Wideman rights were traded he and then signed)
Goal)
1.5mill: Jonas Gustavsson or Chris Mason
0.6mill: Al Montoya
For all of those people picking and choosing, it's easy to do AFTER the fact. What if Mueller got hurt or wasn't fully healed? Did Souray really earn a 3 year deal at $3.7 mill? And MOST IMPORTANTLY, maybe Holmgren TRIED for some of these guys but was unsuccessful by being outbid by price, term, opportunity or LOCATION. These are all factors that NONE of us know how they played out.
i think asking to overhaul the system in a shortened season. With 1 week of "training camp", little to no practice time would of been asking for too much.
they have at times been able to lock it down late in a game.
As far as Jagr goes, it would of been nice to have him back but once the Flyers decided to go all in on Parise, Suter and Weber the writing was on the wall for Jagr and Carle. Which also lead to trading JVR for Schenn.
I am hoping that Holmgren doesnt take such a high risk gamble again. it clearly didnt work out and it cost them trying to sign other players who were available at the time to contracts. The Flyers ended up being left with table scraps in July.
Well, in this situation one hopes Luke Schenn (and an improved Bryzgalov) minimizes points against and counters that loss of offense. Unfortunately, neither of them can make up for a struggling Giroux, injured Hartnell, inconsistent Brayden, declining Briere, disappointing Coburn, or injured Mez.
I wasn't exactly a fan of the trade at the time. It was too similar to Montreal with LeClair, I thought we were giving up the higher upside. However, defense was a more glaring need than offense, even with the loss of Jagr. I'm still not sure how I feel about that trade itself, whether it was a mistake or not. What I do know is that the Flyers need to start developing their own defensemen.
I felt the trade leaned somewhat in Toronto's favor. I was hoping to get back a litte more. But I really like what I have seen concerning Luke's play. The young man is a winner and gives our defense a snarl to it. His hits and blocks are very impressive. I am happy for my fellow New Jersey neighbor, but he had to go. People are in love with scoring stats that is all they look at. There is way more to the game than potting in some cookies. The lose of Hartnell really hurt this club. He has a bigger impact than alot of posters will give him credit for. Jagr did not want to wait and moved on so thats that. He is a pro's pro and the season he was here hopefully influenced the young players what they need to do in order to become a better player. Yes its nice to develope your own players but its not the end of the world. Free agents, trades play a big part. I am glad this club always stuck to their board and picked the BPA at the draft. As far as Briere goes he is one of the guys I feel should be brought out after this season. If I was managemnet I would talk to him about moving to another club and if he was not in agreement then adios Danny. Now this is subject to change if by chance he starts playing like a 6+ million man, but I just do not see that consistency in his game and when you are a samll player there is only some much you can do. So whatever it is you better do it very very well. Coburn is a enigma to me. The guy has the tools but no tool box. He could be had if I was the GM but not unless I got fair value in return. Ottawa may be in the market for a good defensman right now and Kimmo would look good there, but that is another story.
I felt the trade leaned somewhat in Toronto's favor. I was hoping to get back a litte more. But I really like what I have seen concerning Luke's play. The young man is a winner and gives our defense a snarl to it. His hits and blocks are very impressive. I am happy for my fellow New Jersey neighbor, but he had to go. People are in love with scoring stats that is all they look at. There is way more to the game than potting in some cookies. The lose of Hartnell really hurt this club. He has a bigger impact than alot of posters will give him credit for. Jagr did not want to wait and moved on so thats that. He is a pro's pro and the season he was here hopefully influenced the young players what they need to do in order to become a better player. Yes its nice to develope your own players but its not the end of the world. Free agents, trades play a big part. I am glad this club always stuck to their board and picked the BPA at the draft. As far as Briere goes he is one of the guys I feel should be brought out after this season. If I was managemnet I would talk to him about moving to another club and if he was not in agreement then adios Danny. Now this is subject to change if by chance he starts playing like a 6+ million man, but I just do not see that consistency in his game and when you are a samll player there is only some much you can do. So whatever it is you better do it very very well. Coburn is a enigma to me. The guy has the tools but no tool box. He could be had if I was the GM but not unless I got fair value in return. Ottawa may be in the market for a good defensman right now and Kimmo would look good there, but that is another story.
I'd have no problems if the Flyers decided to trade Coburn. I know some on here are gonna freak out about this, but he's probably the most inconsistent defenseman I've ever seen with this franchise. There are times when he is absolutely atrocious and looks bewildered out there. Then, when the playoffs roll around, he seems like finally gets it and plays lights out. The man has been in the league now for quite some time and he still can't put it together consistently. If someone came along and offered a package that included a very promising puck moving defensive prospect, a blue chip winger prospect and a draft pick, I have to admit that I would strongly consider.
As for Briere, it's really sad to see the skill is really beginning to decline and that he looks atrocious out there. He's been so good in terms of bringing young players in under his wing, providing great leadership to them and helping them adjust to the city, but the cap hit is just too much, even if he's on the downside of his payscale. Hartnell has begun to fill the Briere role here and he just doesn't have the defensive moxie to re-invent himself.
I don't think this is tanking because there's still plenty of talent left in Philadelphia if they were to make these moves. At the same time, it's now perfect for a readjustment period and let the young players grow into their roles and go from there. Adding a couple of new, young pieces to complement what is currently in place certainly isn't a bad idea.
Honestly, for what Coburn currently brings to the table, Schenn and Grossmann provide the exact same thing. As long as Laviolette isn't using Coburn in an offensive role, it's kind of redundant having three defensive defensemen in the lineup. As mentioned, if the Flyers could get a young puck mover (think a Brandon Gormley) and if they can get a blue chip forward thrown into the mix, then yeah, I'd be all over it.
In the two games against Florida, he was the one I was most impressed with on their team. He did kind of disappear towards the end of that second game, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Oranje
Am I the only one that wouldn't have minded Souray?
I actually always liked him, as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
Honestly, for what Coburn currently brings to the table, Schenn and Grossmann provide the exact same thing. As long as Laviolette isn't using Coburn in an offensive role, it's kind of redundant having three defensive defensemen in the lineup. As mentioned, if the Flyers could get a young puck mover (think a Brandon Gormley) and if they can get a blue chip forward thrown into the mix, then yeah, I'd be all over it.
Yeah, I also agree with this. I mean, Coburn is good, but he's not that good. He still makes plenty of mistakes that elite defensemen shouldn't (but in reality do), but what I think the problem with him is that even when he's at his best, he still doesn't wow you, neither defensively or offensively. I don't know, I like him on our team and I don't want to get rid of him, but if Holmgren was considering making a move, I'd be all for not making Coburn untouchable and having him as one of the pieces that could be moved.
The thing that disappointed me about Coburn is how he never grew offensively. How much better would this team be if Coburn played in all situations? PP, PK, EV. I thought after the 07/08 season he was on his way to be an all-around beast but his offensive game never developed. Its like his growth stopped in that area. Defensively he is very good but like BCF16 said he is inconsistent.
Coburn was never the same player after he took that puck in the face from the Pittsburgh series in 07 - 08. He became damaged goods. Part of that also falls on John Stevens for not pushing hard on Coburn after that. Such a shame too because if the Flyers had a coach at the time who would have pushed on Coburn a bit, I think he would have been an elite defenseman in this league and all this talk about the Flyers looking for a number one guy wouldn't even be an issue.
Honestly, for what Coburn currently brings to the table, Schenn and Grossmann provide the exact same thing. As long as Laviolette isn't using Coburn in an offensive role, it's kind of redundant having three defensive defensemen in the lineup. As mentioned, if the Flyers could get a young puck mover (think a Brandon Gormley) and if they can get a blue chip forward thrown into the mix, then yeah, I'd be all over it.
exacly. If we can deal him for more youth, but not for older players.
exacly. If we can deal him for more youth, but not for older players.
No, I wouldn't deal Coburn for an older player either. Last night, he got EXPOSED by the Devils. This is a guy who I really thought would be a rock this year and he's been a shell of himself. I don't get it with Coburn at all. He just teases you with what he can do and then he craps the bed. I'm done with him. I've tried defending and I've been sucked into the "Coburn has turned the page" stuff, but I've had it with him. He needs to be sent packing and the sooner the better.
Im not sure you are going to get a return on Coburn like some think. Guy has been regressing since last year. You wont get any high end prospect for him.
There is no way I would deal Coburn, he just means way too much to our defense core. Now if we continue to struggle I would move Grossmannnnnn if he could return a good haul. In Dallas he was supposedly playing extremely poor hockey and netter a 2nd and 3rd. Maybe if someone is desperate, he could get a first. He also is under contract too.
