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Lower lie = Potentially Longer Reach?

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02-14-2013, 12:03 PM
  #1
n3gkiwi
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Lower lie = Potentially Longer Reach?

Quick question regarding a lower lie blade... depending if you could actually hold it at an angle where the blade was flat, wouldn't this give you a longer reach than say something with a higher lie?

I'm not saying you can use a longer stick with a lower lie, but rather would the same length shaft potentially give someone longer reach if they had a lower lie? Does this make sense?

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02-14-2013, 12:56 PM
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MJAYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3gkiwi View Post
Quick question regarding a lower lie blade... depending if you could actually hold it at an angle where the blade was flat, wouldn't this give you a longer reach than say something with a higher lie?

I'm not saying you can use a longer stick with a lower lie, but rather would the same length shaft potentially give someone longer reach if they had a lower lie? Does this make sense?
Assuming both sticks with different lies are the same length, it wont make a noticeable difference at all when it comes to reach.

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02-14-2013, 01:07 PM
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nullterm
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It all depends on how you cut down the shaft. Whether you cut them to the same length from top to the heel, or from the top to the toe.

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02-14-2013, 01:51 PM
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hyster110
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having compared lie 7 and lie 5 from bauers, the length and reach isnt that majorly different

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02-14-2013, 01:57 PM
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CoopALoop
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If you're really worried about reach. Talk to Willie Mitchell and see if he'll loan you this bad boy.



Otherwise, I don't think there will be a huge enough difference to really factor into your purchase.

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02-14-2013, 02:42 PM
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AIREAYE
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It depends on the amount of rocker on the curve as well, in addition to lie. Lie is a very deceiving attribute in that everybody measures their lies differently.

However, if all factors are constant, then theoretically yes, having a lower lie could allow for some freedom in extending the length of your stick slightly. The effects of which depend entirely on the user.

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02-14-2013, 02:47 PM
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Bengerm77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoopALoop View Post
If you're really worried about reach. Talk to Willie Mitchell and see if he'll loan you this bad boy.



Otherwise, I don't think there will be a huge enough difference to really factor into your purchase.
That can't be real. More info please.

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02-14-2013, 03:05 PM
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CoopALoop
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That can't be real. More info please.
A couple of years ago, after a CGY/VAN game, one of the Cgy guys was griping about how Mitchell uses a really long stick (I think max length the NHL allows).

It got a lot of media time and some laughs around here.

So for the next game, Mitchell brought out this stick for warmups as a joke about the whole thing.

Obviously he didn't use it in game, but it got quite a few laughs.

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02-14-2013, 03:12 PM
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n3gkiwi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoopALoop View Post
A couple of years ago, after a CGY/VAN game, one of the Cgy guys was griping about how Mitchell uses a really long stick (I think max length the NHL allows).

It got a lot of media time and some laughs around here.

So for the next game, Mitchell brought out this stick for warmups as a joke about the whole thing.

Obviously he didn't use it in game, but it got quite a few laughs.

I believe it was Mike Keenan (coach of the Flames at that time) that accused Wllie. So he taped a shaft to this stick and skated around in the warm-up with it.

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02-14-2013, 03:13 PM
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CoopALoop
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Originally Posted by n3gkiwi View Post
I believe it was Mike Keenan (coach of the Flames at that time) that accused Wllie. So he taped a shaft to this stick and skated around in the warm-up with it.
There we go.

Thanks for the clarification.

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02-14-2013, 03:47 PM
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n3gkiwi
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I figured out approximately the difference using some math (based on angles from this http://hockeystickexpert.com/hockey-...-puck-control/). If you don't like math, basically it could be over a 2 inch difference between lie 4 vs lie 5.5/6.




A lie 4 stick is suppose to be 137 degrees; lie 5.5 133 degree. Based on a 55 inch shaft (139.7 cm), which is a full Easton Mako shaft... the horizontal difference would be about 2 inches (102.17 cm vs 97.04 cm).

A lie 6 (at 133 degrees) it would be 2.7 inches (or around 6.9 cm).

Math could be wrong, but it is simple trigonometry. The difference doesn't include the length of the blade hosel.

I don't know about you guys, but if I cut half an inch off my stick I notice.

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02-14-2013, 04:53 PM
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The lie/angle doesn't give you extra reach. If you have 4 and 6 lie sticks that are both 64" from the top to the tip of the toe, then that's a 64" radius of reach from your hand, regardless of what the lie is.

It just comes down to how you cut it.

Lie is more about...
* your height/stance (taller = higher lie #, shorter = lower lie #)
* how far you like to keep the puck from your feet (close = higher lie #, away = lower lie #)
* length (longer = lower lie #, shorter = higher lie #).

So it's kinna the other way round. It isn't that a lower lie stick gives you more reach. More like when you use a longer stick you might want a lower lie so the blade rests better on the ice. As the shaft gets longer, the toe comes up off the ice as the angles change. So a lower lie will keep the blade in contact with the ice better.

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02-14-2013, 07:49 PM
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AIREAYE
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Again, I HIGHLY stress the fact that every manufacturer measures their lies differently, so while I commend the breakdown of lie in that article, it is impractical to compare that with retail sticks because they are all different.

It is almost always better to simply hold the stick as if it were cut to one's preference and EYEBALL IT.

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02-14-2013, 08:18 PM
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Crosbyfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
Again, I HIGHLY stress the fact that every manufacturer measures their lies differently, so while I commend the breakdown of lie in that article, it is impractical to compare that with retail sticks because they are all different.

It is almost always better to simply hold the stick as if it were cut to one's preference and EYEBALL IT.
Agree. Even within the same manufacturer lies can be all over the place.

Best bet is to assume that all the stated lies...are all lies (falsehoods) and actually measure or compare them to a known quantity.

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02-15-2013, 03:14 AM
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JetsAlternate
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Originally Posted by CoopALoop View Post
There we go.

Thanks for the clarification.
Here's some video footage of it:


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02-17-2013, 09:01 AM
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r3cc0s
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using a 5 lie vs. a 6 isn't hugely drastic, BUT it does me more blade on the ice if you do have a longer stick, or you skate lower

it seems these days though, with like the new easton 28 blade, that keeping a flat blade on the ice isn't a big deal

I used a Iginla/Cammi/Zetterberg style blade for years, but find that just using a Sakic blade has increased given me better pop on shots that I can't get the best wood on.

but the toe sits higher off the ice, for the same length of stick

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02-17-2013, 09:49 AM
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AIREAYE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3cc0s View Post
using a 5 lie vs. a 6 isn't hugely drastic, BUT it does me more blade on the ice if you do have a longer stick, or you skate lower

it seems these days though, with like the new easton 28 blade, that keeping a flat blade on the ice isn't a big deal

I used a Iginla/Cammi/Zetterberg style blade for years, but find that just using a Sakic blade has increased given me better pop on shots that I can't get the best wood on.

but the toe sits higher off the ice, for the same length of stick
The thing with the E28 imo is that while the 'dual lie' is noticeable in the objective of maximizing blade on ice contact, the same can be achieved with any curve if one cups the blade down a little (provided length is fine etc., ceteris paribus). I find that one of the things people can do to adjust to a P92 clone is to focus a bit more on cupping pucks with the blade closed a bit more.

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02-19-2013, 04:54 PM
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Jarick
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I'm a cupper but with higher lies you cup so much that the puck can go wide.

I tried a 4.75 Drury on that theory and it works fairly well, but I want a little less loft and a little more mid or toe curve when dragging the puck.

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