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Ruff Didn't Score Enough: Trades 'n' FAs II

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Old
02-17-2013, 10:04 PM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
did you apply the same ridiculous philosophy when Myers was sitting out 2 games
No, because there's unreached potential there. I think this is pretty close to peak Sekera.

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02-17-2013, 10:37 PM
  #327
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I really do not think you would have to add a player as good as Sekera to a deal centered around Ennis or vice versa.

Depending on how safe Sherman feels his job is I think in the end what gets the deal done is a league wide blue chip prospect and a decent roster player with 1-2 years remaining on their contract.

I wonder how hard George McPhee has been trying to convince Sherman that Kuznetsov will come over and play next year.

If they weren't in the same conference I would say a team like Nashville (Ellis/Josi) would have the inside track on RoR but I don't see that happening.

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02-17-2013, 10:44 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
I really do not think you would have to add a player as good as Sekera to a deal centered around Ennis or vice versa.

Depending on how safe Sherman feels his job is I think in the end what gets the deal done is a league wide blue chip prospect and a decent roster player with 1-2 years remaining on their contract.

I wonder how hard George McPhee has been trying to convince Sherman that Kuznetsov will come over and play next year.
disagree, not on value, but ROR is undoubtedly a big fish in the market an he is going to come expensive. If you look at a deal and think "ya that looks right" add another piece and you are probably getting close. I think Ennis and Sekera is right around what I'd expect. Would much prefer if we could keep Sekera but I don't know how highly theyd rate our prospects.

Ennis Sekera and a pick/prospect
Or
Stafford Girgensons Pardy And a pick

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02-17-2013, 10:48 PM
  #329
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What do you think the chances are that Sherman is looking for Girgensons to replace O'Reilly? If so, would you do that trade?

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02-17-2013, 11:02 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Ennis Sekera and a pick/prospect
Or
Stafford Girgensons Pardy And a pick
How is the second package even remotely close to the first? People on here really over value recently drafted players, especially mid 1st rounders for some reason. I like Girgensons a lot as a type of player but he's barely even a top 100 prospect in the league at the moment. There's quite a few teams out there that have a Girgensons in their system. Ennis has twice as much value as Stafford at this point in time and Pardy is a salary dump.

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02-17-2013, 11:08 PM
  #331
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How is the second package even remotely close to the first? People on here really over value recently drafted players, especially mid 1st rounders for some reason. I like Girgensons a lot as a type of player but he's barely even a top 100 prospect in the league at the moment. There's quite a few teams out there that have a Girgensons in their system. Ennis has twice as much value as Stafford at this point in time and Pardy is a salary dump.
He's overvalued as a first Rnd pick? Because that's what I was thinking 2 firsts, Girgensons + pick, a roster player, and a depth defenseman. Avs fans have been looking for a winger, there's a post a week about it on the main boards. 2 firsts stafford and a depth player or 2 roster players and a 3rd.

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02-18-2013, 12:12 AM
  #332
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No, because there's unreached potential there. I think this is pretty close to peak Sekera.
defensemen peaking at 26... ok

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02-18-2013, 12:15 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClue4u View Post
What do you think the chances are that Sherman is looking for Girgensons to replace O'Reilly? If so, would you do that trade?
Ideally I want Girgensons on ROR's wing.


But, if that's the only way a deal gets done, so be it.

ROR right now is what I hope Zemgus can eventually be --- and ROR is only half-cooked.

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02-18-2013, 01:03 AM
  #334
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If the Avs wanted Del Zotto, then it looks like they are after a defenseman. Sekera is the best we could offer them and he has much lower value than a guy like Del Zotto would have around the league. Del Zotto is 4 years younger at only 22 years old, meaning he still has a ton of potential, plays top minutes, and is better offensively. Sekera is 5th in ice time on the worst defensive team in the league.

Let's be honest, if the Avs are looking for a defenseman that can play right now, we don't stand a chance.

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02-18-2013, 01:31 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Have My Baby Pierre View Post
If the Avs wanted Del Zotto, then it looks like they are after a defenseman. Sekera is the best we could offer them and he has much lower value than a guy like Del Zotto would have around the league. Del Zotto is 4 years younger at only 22 years old, meaning he still has a ton of potential, plays top minutes, and is better offensively. Sekera is 5th in ice time on the worst defensive team in the league.

Let's be honest, if the Avs are looking for a defenseman that can play right now, we don't stand a chance.
Myers

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02-18-2013, 01:40 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Myers
ROR is one of the few players I'd consider moving Myers for.

ROR + Wilson
For
Myers + Stafford? Not sure about Stafford for Wilson but I think it would be a requirement to upgrade Sulzer if Myers was dealt. Erhroff Sulzer is a frightening top pairing.

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02-18-2013, 03:22 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
ROR is one of the few players I'd consider moving Myers for.

ROR + Wilson
For
Myers + Stafford? Not sure about Stafford for Wilson but I think it would be a requirement to upgrade Sulzer if Myers was dealt. Erhroff Sulzer is a frightening top pairing.
It will never happen, they are building the team around that kid. If they trade for O'Rielly it will not be for arguably the biggest building block on our team, it will instead be for valuable pieces that are also replaceable. Stafford, Sekera, Ennis, Gerbe, etc = replaceable. Myers (giant, skates like the wind, nice hands and vision) = irreplaceable. He hasn't played at the top of his game lately, but he's a 22 year old with a lot of growing up to do. With the right coaching, he WILL be an elite force in this league.

Ryan O'Rielly could just as easily become an elite force in this league with the tools that he has, but because the Avs refuse to sign him, they won't get a player of equal caliber in return. Instead they'll get a nice package of talented pieces.

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02-18-2013, 04:52 AM
  #338
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It will never happen, they are building the team around that kid. If they trade for O'Rielly it will not be for arguably the biggest building block on our team, it will instead be for valuable pieces that are also replaceable. Stafford, Sekera, Ennis, Gerbe, etc = replaceable. Myers (giant, skates like the wind, nice hands and vision) = irreplaceable. He hasn't played at the top of his game lately, but he's a 22 year old with a lot of growing up to do. With the right coaching, he WILL be an elite force in this league.

Ryan O'Rielly could just as easily become an elite force in this league with the tools that he has, but because the Avs refuse to sign him, they won't get a player of equal caliber in return. Instead they'll get a nice package of talented pieces.
The following is a rant inspired by you an not directed at you;

If this discussion is only about what we think will happen then forget I said anything. What will happen? Nothing, we will finish in tenth. Our draft pick will be a third liner in 5 years that no one will care about. Lindy will be "promoted" and some puppet will be brought in to protect Lindy from the mean Buffalo media. There, are we all happy that I kept this post to only things that will actually happen. Personally I find discussing the fantasy of hockey trades a lot more enjoyable than the reality. The reality is several teams made pitches and in the end if he's not a Sabre half the board will be raging that Darcy overvalued his players. I'm sick of the usual to the point that I just don't give a **** what these people actually are thinking. Put some ****ing chips on the table because something I never thought could happen to me is slowly occurring. I'm developing a I just don't care anymore attitude about my favorite sports team.


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02-18-2013, 09:12 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
The following is a rant inspired by you an not directed at you;

If this discussion is only about what we think will happen then forget I said anything. What will happen? Nothing, we will finish in tenth. Our draft pick will be a third liner in 5 years that no one will care about. Lindy will be "promoted" and some puppet will be brought in to protect Lindy from the mean Buffalo media. There, are we all happy that I kept this post to only things that will actually happen. Personally I find discussing the fantasy of hockey trades a lot more enjoyable than the reality. The reality is several teams made pitches and in the end if he's not a Sabre half the board will be raging that Darcy overvalued his players. I'm sick of the usual to the point that I just don't give a **** what these people actually are thinking. Put some ****ing chips on the table because something I never thought could happen to me is slowly occurring. I'm developing a I just don't care anymore attitude about my favorite sports team.
The problem is, we don't know if Regier has or hasn't made an offer to Colorado. He very well could have, remember last year the Hodgson trade came completely out of left field.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:43 AM
  #340
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Ideally I want Girgensons on ROR's wing.


But, if that's the only way a deal gets done, so be it.

ROR right now is what I hope Zemgus can eventually be --- and ROR is only half-cooked.
Me too.

Ennis, Sekera, pick to Colorado for O'Reilly.

Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville
Girgensons - O'Reilly - ?
Foligno - Grigorenko - Stafford (eventually Armia)

Zip mentioned that the Sabres don't have a line to counter the Crosby line right now. The second line is it. That's the line Buffalo can send out vs. Crosby, Giroux, etc. Find a speedy RW, or even Stafford if Regier can't move him, and that's a difficult line to play against.

That 3rd line would crush teams in a few years, once Armia is up, playing against low QoC.

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02-18-2013, 11:08 AM
  #341
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As your attorney, I'd advise against moving one of the three d-men we have under non ELC contract for next year.

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02-18-2013, 11:24 AM
  #342
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As your attorney, I'd advise against moving one of the three d-men we have under non ELC contract for next year.
Agreed. We should be looking to add a top 4 defensive dman and clear out some of the garbage back there right now. We only have 3 dmen signed beyond this season (Myers, Hoff + Sekera) and they are the only 3 top 4 dmen on the roster (Myers struggles noted).

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02-18-2013, 11:33 AM
  #343
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I think most fans would agree that if we could include Stafford, as the top-6 winger COL is looking for, in a trade for O'Reilly, that would be ideal. However, the problem that most people have cited with this is his $4-million dollar cap hit (coupled with his lack of production so far this year). If COL isn't willing to pay O'Reilly $5 mill, they definitely won't want Stafford at $4 mill. However, I think there is a solution to at least any money problem that would exist here.

My suggestion is why not use Pegula's deep pockets and offer to take on some of Stafford's salary to try to increase his attractiveness in a trade with COL. I haven't read the specifics of the new CBA in detail, but I believe a team can retain up to $3 mill or 50% AAV for a single player in a trade.

Maybe an offer of Stafford (where we retain $2 mill of his salary), Pysyk, and 2nd rd pick could peak their interest. COL is gonna be nowhere near the cap ceiling, so the $4 mill cap hit shouldn't be a problem, and Stafford at $2 mill is quite a bargain. If Pegula is so obsessed about winning the cup as Ted Black says he is, I think this is something Regier should definitely look into. Granted, COL may have zero interest in Stafford regardless, but I think the idea should be entertained at least on our end.

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02-18-2013, 11:57 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Lil Jim 1031 View Post
I think most fans would agree that if we could include Stafford, as the top-6 winger COL is looking for, in a trade for O'Reilly, that would be ideal. However, the problem that most people have cited with this is his $4-million dollar cap hit (coupled with his lack of production so far this year). If COL isn't willing to pay O'Reilly $5 mill, they definitely won't want Stafford at $4 mill. However, I think there is a solution to at least any money problem that would exist here.

My suggestion is why not use Pegula's deep pockets and offer to take on some of Stafford's salary to try to increase his attractiveness in a trade with COL. I haven't read the specifics of the new CBA in detail, but I believe a team can retain up to $3 mill or 50% AAV for a single player in a trade.

Maybe an offer of Stafford (where we retain $2 mill of his salary), Pysyk, and 2nd rd pick could peak their interest. COL is gonna be nowhere near the cap ceiling, so the $4 mill cap hit shouldn't be a problem, and Stafford at $2 mill is quite a bargain. If Pegula is so obsessed about winning the cup as Ted Black says he is, I think this is something Regier should definitely look into. Granted, COL may have zero interest in Stafford regardless, but I think the idea should be entertained at least on our end.
You don't just take on the salary you take on the cap space and I really don't see much point in doing that. It throws away 2mil in cap space (using the numbers in your post).


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02-18-2013, 12:06 PM
  #345
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You don't just take on the salary you take on the cap space. But I really don't see much point in doing that. It throws away 2mil in cap space (using the numbers in your post).
Gotcha. I didn't know that you took on that part of the player's cap hit as well. Definitely makes things much tougher as it essentially would turn O'Reilly into a $6-7 mill addition (5 mill + $1-2 mill extra cap hit from Stafford).

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02-18-2013, 12:37 PM
  #346
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I know I've said it before, but let me reiterate: Money is not the reason O'Reilly isn't being signed. Not accepting the first offer is why. Avs DON'T bargain. Hell even Sakic signed an offer sheet in his career. Avs have always had a "Take it or leave it" style of bargaining, and when they've thrown too much money on the table they've almost always been burned.

I 100% believe Avs will end up taking on more salary in a trade than O'Reilly was asking for. Or at the very least they'll take on close enought to have people scratching their heads.

As for Sekera + Ennis. As an Avs fan I like it, but again, I just can't see Ennis having success in the "Big tough West" Ennis is an East conference player through and through. I like Ennis a lot, but I don't see the Avs targeting him.

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02-18-2013, 12:46 PM
  #347
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I wonder how many posters know what they would be getting if we acquired O'Reilly. He's sort of a center version of Pommer. But RoR has the better defensive game and Pommer, right now, has the better offensive game.

When I say they are similar I'm referring to the fact that they both use their brains and not brawn to be effective. O'Reilly, like Pommer, is not a hitter nor a physical player nor a dirty/chippy player. But he is effective because he understands the game so well. He is one of the smarter players in the game.

I would love to see a line of XXX/O'Reilly/Pommer if we can acquire him.

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02-18-2013, 12:52 PM
  #348
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If there ever was a time to go all in on a player, that time is now and that player is Perry. I have advocated that the Sabres are only one talented RW away from having a masterpiece on there hands. Two of the lines have already proven they can be the best lines in the league at any given moment: FES & VHP. Our problem has always been the missing, talented 3rd line RW. Now that we have 3 talented C's, this has become a glaring hole. And this is the reason for any of the line juggling.

Perry solves everything. 3 stud lines.

Vanek - Hodgson - Perry
Foligno - Ennis - Pomm
Ott/Girgs - Grigorenko - Armia/Staff

I'd much rather Perry than RoR


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02-18-2013, 01:09 PM
  #349
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If there ever was a time to go all in on a player, that time is now and that player is Perry. I have advocated that the Sabres are only one talented RW away from having a masterpiece on there hands. Two of the lines have already proven they can be the best lines in the league at any given moment: FES & VHP. Our problem has always been the missing, talented 3rd line RW. Now that we have 3 talented C's, this has become a glaring hole. And this is the reason for any of the line juggling.

Perry solves everything. 3 stud lines.

Vanek - Hodgson - Perry
Foligno - Ennis - Pomm
Ott/Girgs - Grigorenko - Armia/Staff

I'd much rather Perry than RoR
And who do you suggest giving up for Perry (who will require a hefty package), and how OK are you with mortgaging the future if Perry decides not to resign here? Perry would be a great fit, but I doubt he would choose to stay in Buffalo, so renting him doesn't make much sense.

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02-18-2013, 01:12 PM
  #350
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And who do you suggest giving up for Perry (who will require a hefty package), and how OK are you with mortgaging the future if Perry decides not to resign here? Perry would be a great fit, but I doubt he would choose to stay in Buffalo, so renting him doesn't make much sense.
Not sure how Perry is a great fit. We badly need at least 1 top 4 defensive dman and a defensive center. He helps in neither area and would be a waste of assets (because of the amount it would take) to acquire IMO since those two issues would still be glaring problems after he is acquired.

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