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Ruff Didn't Score Enough: Trades 'n' FAs II

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:06 AM
  #726
SundherDome
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Honestly the "core" needs to go. Its been said before here and I have been reluctant to entertain the idea, but the more I watch this team deteriorate every year since drury and briere left I put the blame on the core. Pomminville needs to go, Stafford needs to go, Miller needs to go (we need a legit replacement first) Vanek needs to go (iv been his biggest supporter since his days at minny but this core just lacks everything. Trade them for picks and strategic leaders ( oreilly) and vets who lead by example.

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02-23-2013, 12:32 PM
  #727
Dubi Doo
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Anyone think a deal centered around Stafford and Simmonds is fair? We'd have to add, but how much?

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02-23-2013, 12:43 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Anyone think a deal centered around Stafford and Simmonds is fair? We'd have to add, but how much?
Probably a D prospect. I would love to have Simmonds on this team. Gives it his all every shift.

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02-23-2013, 12:47 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Anyone think a deal centered around Stafford and Simmonds is fair? We'd have to add, but how much?
not sure why Philly would do that, Simmonds is the better player with a better contract + fan favorite/lockerroom guy.

I'd try to move Drew to D.C. for Brouwer, i think Drew would put up better numbers in that top 9.

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02-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Anyone think a deal centered around Stafford and Simmonds is fair? We'd have to add, but how much?
That'd be awesome, give em leopold and pysyk but they'd probabky still say no

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:54 PM
  #731
Dubi Doo
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not sure why Philly would do that, Simmonds is the better player with a better contract + fan favorite/lockerroom guy.

I'd try to move Drew to D.C. for Brouwer, i think Drew would put up better numbers in that top 9.
Yea. I doubt it happens unless it's a blockbuster. I just love Simmonds game.

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02-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Or, more accurately, Pominville for ROR + Pickard/pick.
You can't seriously think O'Reilly has more value than Pominville, who's got a track record of scoring 50-70 points, very good two-way play, and is actually signed to a contract.
I seriously think he does

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02-23-2013, 01:29 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I seriously think he does
Pominville has a history of putting up 50-70 points and 20-30 goals. ROR has topped 50 points once and never scored 20 goals.
Pominville has a track record of being a good two-way play. Not quite ROR's level there, but still good.
He established himself as a legitimate 1st line quality player over several seasons in the NHL. ROR is a 2nd liner now and might not ever be more than that, we don't know.
And he's actually signed to a contract.

Would I rather have ROR on my team if I could only pick one of the two? Yes, most likely, (because of our need for a shutdown center and the fact that Pominville will probably be past his prime by the time Buffalo is a competitive team and also the general nagging feeling that this "core" isn't going to win anything). But there's no way O'Reilly has more trade value.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:31 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I seriously think he does
I LOVE Poms, and I think he does too.

edit: to clarify, he's a lot younger, a better defensive player and plays C - that makes him a lot more valuable.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:35 PM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Or, more accurately, Pominville for ROR + Pickard/pick.
You can't seriously think O'Reilly has more value than Pominville, who's got a track record of scoring 50-70 points, very good two-way play, and is actually signed to a contract.
I don't think O'Reilly has more value that Pominville, but it's pretty close. I'd do something like Pominville and pick for O'Reilly and Pickard.

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02-23-2013, 01:40 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Pominville has a history of putting up 50-70 points and 20-30 goals. ROR has topped 50 points once and never scored 20 goals.
there's no need to regurgitate generic stats that everyone is completely aware of.

Quote:
Pominville has a track record of being a good two-way play. Not quite ROR's level there, but still good.
the moon is "not quite" the size of the earth

Quote:
He established himself as a legitimate 1st line quality player over several seasons in the NHL. ROR is a 2nd liner now and might not ever be more than that, we don't know.
Oreilly led his team in scoring, and minutes (forwards). Calling him a 2nd liner is moronic.

We agree, Pominiville is a legitimate 1st line forward... going into the last year of his deal, and will be 31.

Quote:
And he's actually signed to a contract.
if you think the contract scenarios of these 2 players gives Pominville and trade value advantage then your don't seem to know much about trade value.

RoR will wont be a free agent for 4 more full seasons at a minimum. Pominville will be a free agent in 1 more full season.


Quote:
Would I rather have ROR on my team if I could only pick one of the two? Yes, most likely, (because of our need for a shutdown center and the fact that Pominville will probably be past his prime by the time Buffalo is a competitive team and also the general nagging feeling that this "core" isn't going to win anything). But there's no way O'Reilly has more trade value.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:32 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I seriously think he does
Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
I LOVE Poms, and I think he does too.

edit: to clarify, he's a lot younger, a better defensive player and plays C - that makes him a lot more valuable.


I don't even know what to say anymore. This is beyond ridiculous.

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:02 PM
  #738
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I don't even know what to say anymore. This is beyond ridiculous.
Justin Williams was traded to LA at the same point in his career. It was at the trade deadline, and he still had a year left on his deal (same as Poms right now).

The return was Patrick O'sullivan and a 2nd round pick

Now, I believe Pommer has a better track record today, than Williams had at that time. And Williams was coming off a 2nd major injury.

But I think the trade illustrates that veterans towards the end of a contract, who aren't super stars... don't generally net much in trade.

O'reilly has more trade value than Pommers... that's just a reality of the NHL when looking at the history of recent trades.

You're generally blinded by your blue n gold goggles... no different here

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02-23-2013, 03:08 PM
  #739
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Pominville is better than O'Reilly (right now). O'Reilly has more value than Pominville. I think that that is quite obvious to be truthful.

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02-23-2013, 03:30 PM
  #740
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Pominville is established as a 1st line at worst, all-star at best, 65 point two way player who virtually never misses a game, wears a C and is among the most reliable players in the league.

ROR is a 21 year old kid with one pretty good season under his belt and is demanding a contract that is more than he has earned, in fact, right in the range of what Poms gets now despite the fact Pominville only scored less than what ROR scored in his "breakout" year in one season, his rookie year. Pominville has MUCH more value than ROR. It's absurd this even has to be justified. The over rating of ROR continues to amaze me.

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02-23-2013, 03:43 PM
  #741
dma0034
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Pominville is established as a 1st line at worst, all-star at best, 65 point two way player who virtually never misses a game, wears a C and is among the most reliable players in the league.

ROR is a 21 year old kid with one pretty good season under his belt and is demanding a contract that is more than he has earned, in fact, right in the range of what Poms gets now despite the fact Pominville only scored less than what ROR scored in his "breakout" year in one season, his rookie year. Pominville has MUCH more value than ROR. It's absurd this even has to be justified. The over rating of ROR continues to amaze me.
ROR is a shutdown center who hasn't entered his prime and is a RFA. Pominville is 30 and probably only has 3-4 more quality years and is an UFA next year.

Both are players you'd like on your team but ROR is an asset all 29 other teams would like where Pominville is an asset only 15-16 teams would want (for a playoff run).

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:44 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Pominville is established as a 1st line at worst, all-star at best, 65 point two way player who virtually never misses a game, wears a C and is among the most reliable players in the league.
Simon Gagne was all those things... and was traded for Matt Walker and a doughnut.

Is trade value really that hard for you to understand?

Quote:
ROR is a 21 year old kid with one pretty good season under his belt and is demanding a contract that is more than he has earned, in fact, right in the range of what Poms gets now despite the fact Pominville only scored less than what ROR scored in his "breakout" year in one season, his rookie year. Pominville has MUCH more value than ROR. It's absurd this even has to be justified. The over rating of ROR continues to amaze me.
you don't seem to grasph what constitutes trade value... age/contract/years, make up a huge portion of trade value.

Is it really necessary for you to include the conjecture about contract demands? Did you really need to insert your lame attempt to downplay his breakout season?

"pretty good year"... :facepalm... dude had a selke caliber year. Isn't being completely ignorant about Oreilly enough, without having to marginalize and deal in conjecture?

it's clear that you don't understand trade value... try taking your agenda somewhere else.

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02-23-2013, 03:46 PM
  #743
Jame
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maybe we should go back to last years trade proposals, where i was laughed at for saying Roy for Ott was a fair trade (months before it happened)

fans, especially on this board, have a very difficult time with trade value

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:49 PM
  #744
stokes84
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maybe we should go back to last years trade proposals, where i was laughed at for saying Roy for Ott was a fair trade (months before it happened)

fans, especially on this board, have a very difficult time with trade value
It wasn't a fair trade.

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:50 PM
  #745
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It wasn't a fair trade.
For Dallas?

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:59 PM
  #746
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This team lacks leadership. I'm not opposed to shipping out Pominville and Stafford now, and Miller in the off-season.

Time to Rebuild.

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:12 PM
  #747
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Value is determined by need. a team might need a winger more then a center, so pominvilles value isn't easy to determine against ror.

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02-23-2013, 04:13 PM
  #748
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I want to re-sign Pominville.

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:15 PM
  #749
dma0034
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Originally Posted by ImpressedDAHagent View Post
Value is determined by need. a team might need a winger more then a center, so pominvilles value isn't easy to determine against ror.
Yes if you are talking about supply and demand. Here is want/need. Every team needs a ROR, every team wants a Pominville.

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02-23-2013, 04:17 PM
  #750
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Ignoring who the players are, having a player for club control for 4 more seasons is clearly more valuable than someone who is under club control for 1 more season. Pretty common sense there. Now under the microscope, RoR being 8 years younger than Pominville is also in his favor. Their "gap" in talent doesn't make up the difference.

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