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Old
02-17-2013, 03:30 PM
  #26
Sens1Canes2
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
But on another note, when he's #8 in save percentage among all starters over the last 4 years, and has saved more shots then any other goalie has even faced over the last 2 years, can they be blamed for their missing the playoffs 3 of 4 of those years?
Being #8 is right around where I'd rank him, so that's not surprising.

I don't know the specific season-to-season stats...but some have been notably worse than others. Those are the seasons that make me think he's not in that top echelon.

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02-17-2013, 03:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sens1Canes2 View Post
Being #8 is right around where I'd rank him, so that's not surprising.

I don't know the specific season-to-season stats...but some have been notably worse than others. Those are the seasons that make me think he's not in that top echelon.
08-09: .916/68 games - made playoffs
09-10: .916/47 games - injured, team missed by miles
10-11: .923/74 games - near miss
11-12: .915/68 games - Mo fired mid-season after slow start, team missed by 10 points

he had a rough start this year, but minus the first 2 games he's at .919, I expect his stats to normalize over the course of the season to somewhere close to that.

I consider .910 about average for a goalie so he's prettymuch been an above average goalie to me to varying extents since 07-08.

Not painting you into any category on this one, just a general statement on the boards overall. Cam's first two years after winning the cup were enough to really tarnish his reputation to a large part of fans around the league, and many of them are like Pauser who will argue with you until the end of the earth about it. The others are those that argue he's among the best in the game right now, and that his stats would be even better behind a competent defense. Of course, being that we haven't had one of those since 08-09 we have no way of knowing if that's accurate.

FWIW, the top 10 in that regard were Thomas, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo, Miller, Anderson, Ward, Hiller, Price, Quick (tie between the last 3). So I'd have Ward about 5th out of those that are actually active right now, just ahead of Price and Miller but not by much.


Last edited by DaveG: 02-17-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 04:18 PM
  #28
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I wish I could have seen more of that game. I was at an airport and my plane boarded during the start of the third period.
I've got that one on VHS (whole series, actually) and watch it quite often. Amazing display by Ward. A few times the Bruins HAD that game. I mean it was RIGHT THERE and Ward said no.

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02-17-2013, 04:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
08-09: .916/68 games - made playoffs
09-10: .916/47 games - injured, team missed by miles
10-11: .923/74 games - near miss
11-12: .915/68 games - Mo fired mid-season after slow start, team missed by 10 points

he had a rough start this year, but minus the first 2 games he's at .919, I expect his stats to normalize over the course of the season to somewhere close to that.

I consider .910 about average for a goalie so he's prettymuch been an above average goalie to me to varying extents since 07-08.

Not painting you into any category on this one, just a general statement on the boards overall. Cam's first two years after winning the cup were enough to really tarnish his reputation to a large part of fans around the league, and many of them are like Pauser who will argue with you until the end of the earth about it. The others are those that argue he's among the best in the game right now, and that his stats would be even better behind a competent defense. Of course, being that we haven't had one of those since 08-09 we have no way of knowing if that's accurate.

FWIW, the top 10 in that regard were Thomas, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo, Miller, Anderson, Ward, Hiller, Price, Quick (tie between the last 3). So I'd have Ward about 5th out of those that are actually active right now, just ahead of Price and Miller but not by much.
We also have to remember that at the time of the Cup year, Cam still wasn't in his prime. Added to that is the pressure to repeat the same performance. Something Braden Holtby has struggled with after having an outstanding playoffs last year.

Those that believe Ward is top 3 goaltender overall are off base but those who think he's in the bottom half probably haven't watched the rest of the league.

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02-17-2013, 04:27 PM
  #30
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FWIW, if you have Gamecenter you can watch that entire series from their Vault section.

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Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
We also have to remember that at the time of the Cup year, Cam still wasn't in his prime. Added to that is the pressure to repeat the same performance. Something Braden Holtby has struggled with after having an outstanding playoffs last year.

Those that believe Ward is top 3 goaltender overall are off base but those who think he's in the bottom half probably haven't watched the rest of the league.
I can buy an argument for Cam over anyone shy of Lundqvist, Rinne, and Quick. I know Quick's been really off this year, but so has that entire LA team. If Quick doesn't get it back together he's in the conversation with Luongo, Ward, Price, Miller, and Lehtonen for guys that are "tier 2" goalies. ****** to say but with it looking like they'll miss the playoffs I don't feel so bad about the 06-07 Canes missing, especially with all the turnover we had compared to this Kings team.


Last edited by DaveG: 02-17-2013 at 04:32 PM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 05:21 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
08-09: .916/68 games - made playoffs
09-10: .916/47 games - injured, team missed by miles
10-11: .923/74 games - near miss
11-12: .915/68 games - Mo fired mid-season after slow start, team missed by 10 points

he had a rough start this year, but minus the first 2 games he's at .919, I expect his stats to normalize over the course of the season to somewhere close to that.

I consider .910 about average for a goalie so he's prettymuch been an above average goalie to me to varying extents since 07-08.

Not painting you into any category on this one, just a general statement on the boards overall. Cam's first two years after winning the cup were enough to really tarnish his reputation to a large part of fans around the league, and many of them are like Pauser who will argue with you until the end of the earth about it. The others are those that argue he's among the best in the game right now, and that his stats would be even better behind a competent defense. Of course, being that we haven't had one of those since 08-09 we have no way of knowing if that's accurate.

FWIW, the top 10 in that regard were Thomas, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo, Miller, Anderson, Ward, Hiller, Price, Quick (tie between the last 3). So I'd have Ward about 5th out of those that are actually active right now, just ahead of Price and Miller but not by much.
Oh, I definitely think he's "above average" in this league, I just can't put him into the top 5-ish category. After that, he's definitely lumped in with a few other guys.

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02-17-2013, 05:37 PM
  #32
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I agree with many of the above posts.
Cam is not an elite goalie, but he is in the upper half of starters in the league. At any given time he can range from around 6 - 14 depending on how he is playing and how others are.

The biggest problem with Cam is that he has tremendous upside potential but has not shown the consistency that is needed to be truly considered elite. He is prone to having poor stretches and when doing so giving up soft goals.

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:30 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
FWIW, if you have Gamecenter you can watch that entire series from their Vault section.



I can buy an argument for Cam over anyone shy of Lundqvist, Rinne, and Quick. I know Quick's been really off this year, but so has that entire LA team. If Quick doesn't get it back together he's in the conversation with Luongo, Ward, Price, Miller, and Lehtonen for guys that are "tier 2" goalies. ****** to say but with it looking like they'll miss the playoffs I don't feel so bad about the 06-07 Canes missing, especially with all the turnover we had compared to this Kings team.
Honestly, I never got the hype around LA to repeat again this year. Half of the media was penciling them in to make the finals again. They were terrible most of last year and just got hot at the end just in time to sneak into the playoffs.. perfect timing. Most people seemed to forget that. They are right around where I expected them... Maybe a little lower.

I agree that it would be nice for them to join us in the miss the playoffs after winning the cup club.

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02-17-2013, 07:02 PM
  #34
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Honestly, I never got the hype around LA to repeat again this year. Half of the media was penciling them in to make the finals again. They were terrible most of last year and just got hot at the end just in time to sneak into the playoffs.. perfect timing. Most people seemed to forget that. They are right around where I expected them... Maybe a little lower.

I agree that it would be nice for them to join us in the miss the playoffs after winning the cup club.
Yeah I wasn't as sold on them as many. I expected better then this, but I thought the class of the west was going to be the Central teams. I think I had the Blues in first again and only voted for LA over Vancouver in the tiebreak. I had Chicago in #4 if only because of the division, but would have had them above that based on straight standings.

That said, LA would have been about 4th in my west, with SJ not far behind for 5th. So this is still completely unexpected.

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