Best defenseman at defense

[Nalyd Psycho]

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

Langway's Norrises were largely backlash at the growing importance that points played in Norris voting after Bobby Orr. Langway was a throwback to the stay-at-home defensemen of old, and a lot of people think he get his Norrises largely because he was the "anti-Coffey" and that Mark Howe, aging Denis Potvin, and young Ray Bourque were better all-rounders.

On the other hand, Langway is credited with turning around the Washington Capitals (in both the standings and goals against column) after he was traded to the team.

Am I alone in thinking Langway was more worthy of Hart votes than Norris votes?

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho

Am I alone in thinking Langway was more worthy of Hart votes than Norris votes?

Could be. Maybe if voting were done like it was in the 1930s, he might have won a Hart Trophy in his first year in Washington, while being a 2nd Team All-Star at D.

[SaintPatrick33]

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

70s/80s: Larry Robinson, Serge Savard, Rod Langway

Nice to see Serge Savard get a shout out

[Big Phil]

Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho

Am I alone in thinking Langway was more worthy of Hart votes than Norris votes?

Personally I am trying to remember that era. I honestly don't remember a heck of a lot of fuss those two years with Langway's Norrises. I honestly don't. In hindsight I think we look back on it and wonder how either one of Coffey, Potvin, Howe or Bourque didn't win them but it isn't as if Langway was a one hit wonder either. Here is how his Norris finishes looked:

10th - 1980
5th - 1981
9th - 1982
1st - 1983
1st - 1984
3rd - 1985
5th - 1986

That's a pretty good string right there. Definitely HHOF worthy. At the time before the trade the Capitals had 338 GA in 1982. Langway gets traded there and they drop to 283 the next year, down to 226 the following year good for best in the NHL. That drew a lot of attention at the time and the impact was felt in the NHL. Within two seasons on the heels of predominantly one player a team dropped their overall goals against by 112. That was the thing with Langway, he was extreme when it came to defense. Even in 1986 he finishes 5th and has only 18 points. Seriously. The man was revered at the time and I think only in hindsight has it become something of a surprise since we know how Coffey and Bourque turned out.

[eva unit zero]

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

Previous threads on this

70s/80s: Larry Robinson, Serge Savard, Rod Langway
Recent: Ray Bourque, Chris Chelios, Scott Stevens, Nicklas Lidstrom

I think you are missing Brad McCrimmon, Mark Howe, Mike Ramsey, Vladimir Konstantinov and Chris Pronger.

[RabbinsDuck]

Originally Posted by nik jr

harvey seems to be the consensus here, but when i read old newspapers, he is most often mentioned for his ability with the puck, and i don't see a similar consensus that harvey was the best defensive d-man in history.

i have seen some old video of him, and he looked very strong defensively, but his passing, puck possession game and ability to control the flow of play stood out most, and were easily the best i have seen from that era. harvey looked almost like a modern d-man who went back in time.



ekof232's description is consistent with the video i have seen.

The tone here does not seem to conform with contemporary observations, re: Harvey defensively.

Not challenging he was great nor amongst the best defensively of all-time, just the notion he was in a league of his own •defensively• •all-time•.

I also asked Ted Lindsay recently about Harvey's defensive game... And I used the words "best ever" and he was surprised that was something believed nowadays and rattled off a number of names who were better defensively at the time (and I promptly forgot - do remember Carl Brewer). Not saying this anecdote is to be weighted heavily, but it does support the idea Harvey was not as highly regarded defensively by his contemporaries, as we seem to give him today. Right or wrong.

[Big Phil]

Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck

The tone here does not seem to conform with contemporary observations, re: Harvey defensively.

Not challenging he was great nor amongst the best defensively of all-time, just the notion he was in a league of his own •defensively• •all-time•.

I also asked Ted Lindsay recently about Harvey's defensive game... And I used the words "best ever" and he was surprised that was something believed nowadays and rattled off a number of names who were better defensively at the time (and I promptly forgot - do remember Carl Brewer). Not saying this anecdote is to be weighted heavily, but it does support the idea Harvey was not as highly regarded defensively by his contemporaries, as we seem to give him today. Right or wrong.

Lindsay would be a pretty good guy to talk to about that. Still has a mind as sharp as a tack as far as I am concerned. In the original 6 there weren't any patsies playing and you did have to be good defensively as a defenseman specifically. So the fact that there would be contemporaries from a defensive standpoint of Harvey isn't surprising. However, Harvey controlled the game like no other defenseman. That ties into being great in ALL aspects of the game, including defense, so to call him the best defensive defenseman ever still isn't a stretch in my mind.

[Dark Shadows]

The big 4 for me of players I have seen.

Doug Harvey

Serge Savard/Rod Langway
Lidstrom