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Old
04-16-2013, 10:27 PM
  #976
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You really have to admire the way this team and this board evolve. We sit today, so many people down and out about Brad Richards, talking about the Rangers getting rid of him and replacing him with a much better UFA signing down the road.

There was a time when people talked about Scott Gomez, how he needed to go, and how he would be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Before that, there was a time when Michael Nylander had to go, and be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Chris Drury? Matt Cullen? Before that, Bobby Holik, and Eric Lindros, and Petr Nedved? Mark Messier?

If only there was something teams could do to avoid having to fill the most important niche on their roster with overpaid free agents, few of whom rarely live up to expectations . . .

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04-16-2013, 10:29 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
You really have to admire the way this team and this board evolve. We sit today, so many people down and out about Brad Richards, talking about the Rangers getting rid of him and replacing him with a much better UFA signing down the road.

There was a time when people talked about Scott Gomez, how he needed to go, and how he would be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Before that, there was a time when Michael Nylander had to go, and be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Chris Drury? Matt Cullen? Before that, Bobby Holik, and Eric Lindros, and Petr Nedved? Mark Messier?

If only there was something teams could do to avoid having to fill the most important niche on their roster with overpaid free agents, few of whom rarely live up to expectations . . .
As a lifelong Ranger fan, I have no idea what that could possibly be.

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04-16-2013, 10:40 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
You really have to admire the way this team and this board evolve. We sit today, so many people down and out about Brad Richards, talking about the Rangers getting rid of him and replacing him with a much better UFA signing down the road.

There was a time when people talked about Scott Gomez, how he needed to go, and how he would be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Before that, there was a time when Michael Nylander had to go, and be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Chris Drury? Matt Cullen? Before that, Bobby Holik, and Eric Lindros, and Petr Nedved? Mark Messier?

If only there was something teams could do to avoid having to fill the most important niche on their roster with overpaid free agents, few of whom rarely live up to expectations . . .
Nylander never should've left. He, Jagr, and Straka were dynamite. I say we blame Messier. If he doesn't bail in 97....

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04-16-2013, 10:45 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
You really have to admire the way this team and this board evolve. We sit today, so many people down and out about Brad Richards, talking about the Rangers getting rid of him and replacing him with a much better UFA signing down the road.

There was a time when people talked about Scott Gomez, how he needed to go, and how he would be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Before that, there was a time when Michael Nylander had to go, and be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Chris Drury? Matt Cullen? Before that, Bobby Holik, and Eric Lindros, and Petr Nedved? Mark Messier?

If only there was something teams could do to avoid having to fill the most important niche on their roster with overpaid free agents, few of whom rarely live up to expectations . . .
This is why I want to start the rebuild ASAP and tank for 1 season. Next season is where I hope the team finally realizes that the only way to get a competent #1C is through drafting, because they are never available for trade.

Speaking of Nylander, I would love to pick him up next year.

Nylander
Stepan
Lindberg
Miller


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Old
04-16-2013, 10:53 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This is why I want to start the rebuild ASAP and tank for 1 season. Next season is where I hope the team finally realizes that the only way to get a competent #1C is through drafting, because they are never available for trade.

Speaking of Nylander, I would love to pick him up next year.

Nylander
Stepan
Lindberg
Miller

Can't waste a season tanking with the best goalie in the world getting older. He's in his prime we can't afford to tank for a season.

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:55 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
You really have to admire the way this team and this board evolve. We sit today, so many people down and out about Brad Richards, talking about the Rangers getting rid of him and replacing him with a much better UFA signing down the road.

There was a time when people talked about Scott Gomez, how he needed to go, and how he would be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Before that, there was a time when Michael Nylander had to go, and be replaced with a much better UFA signing.

Chris Drury? Matt Cullen? Before that, Bobby Holik, and Eric Lindros, and Petr Nedved? Mark Messier?

If only there was something teams could do to avoid having to fill the most important niche on their roster with overpaid free agents, few of whom rarely live up to expectations . . .
I don't think anyone expected Brad Richards to play this poorly this early in his contract.

Drury and Gomez were overpaid and were 2nd/3rd liners to begin with, so disappointment was inevitable there.

Nylander was great in his 2 seasons here, but then came Drury and Gomez...

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04-16-2013, 10:58 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Glen Sathers Cigar View Post
Can't waste a season tanking with the best goalie in the world getting older. He's in his prime we can't afford to tank for a season.
Lundqvist has proven that even he cannot carry a team in the gutter to contenders. His GVT ratings is best post lockout as Bloo Blooded posted, higher than Malkin/Crosby/Ovechkin. That speaks volumes to what he means to the franchise. You're looking at Stamkos, Tavares and Hall on the team probably without him. Don't think this one offseason is enough for turnaround to propel the team to contenders, not enough talent.

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04-16-2013, 11:05 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
Nylander never should've left. He, Jagr, and Straka were dynamite. I say we blame Messier. If he doesn't bail in 97....
No! Nylander should never have been on the team in the first place! None of them should ever have been on the team. That's the point. Stop building teams around free agents 30 years of age and over, AND DRAFT A ****ING FRANCHISE CENTER FOR ONCE!

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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
I don't think anyone expected Brad Richards to play this poorly this early in his contract.

Drury and Gomez were overpaid and were 2nd/3rd liners to begin with, so disappointment was inevitable there.

Nylander was great in his 2 seasons here, but then came Drury and Gomez...
No, no one did, and that includes me, but that isn't the point. You reap what you sow. If you want to build a team backwards, don't be surprised when the results aren't up to snuff. If you want to fill the most important role on your team with players that aren't elite, don't expect to win.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:09 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
No! Nylander should never have been on the team in the first place! None of them should ever have been on the team. That's the point. Stop building teams around free agents 30 years of age and over, AND DRAFT A ****ING FRANCHISE CENTER FOR ONCE!



No, no one did, and that includes me, but that isn't the point. You reap what you sow. If you want to build a team backwards, don't be surprised when the results aren't up to snuff. If you want to fill the most important role on your team with players that aren't elite, don't expect to win.
It is not that easy to just draft a number one center...Not only do you have to be bad you also have to be lucky and win a lottery.

Additionally Richards was very much elite prior to joining us.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:13 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
No! Nylander should never have been on the team in the first place! None of them should ever have been on the team. That's the point. Stop building teams around free agents 30 years of age and over, AND DRAFT A ****ING FRANCHISE CENTER FOR ONCE!



No, no one did, and that includes me, but that isn't the point. You reap what you sow. If you want to build a team backwards, don't be surprised when the results aren't up to snuff. If you want to fill the most important role on your team with players that aren't elite, don't expect to win.
Did you ever think Richards was elite? Or did you think he was over the hill when signed?

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04-16-2013, 11:17 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
It is not that easy to just draft a number one center...Not only do you have to be bad you also have to be lucky and win a lottery.
I never said it was easy at all. But how easy have the last 13 years been? How much has really changed? Fill the most important roles on your team with free agents, fail to consistently compete for championships.

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Additionally Richards was very much elite prior to joining us.
He was pretty damn good, you don't have to convince me. I was for the signing, because he was the only option. Still, he was exiting his prime, much like every other name that the Rangers have signed to fill the slot of top line center over the years.

There was no other option for a top line center last summer, and so how could they not sign Richards? But if the option to not sign any of these free agents and just rebuild properly had been on the table, then that is the option I would have supported. The option that should have been adopted instead of getting Lindros, Holik, etc. Instead of signing Jagr and friends, instead of signing Gomez, Redden, and Drury.

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04-16-2013, 11:19 PM
  #987
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People who want us to draft a franchise center, There are two ways of doing it.

1)Get extremely lucky - well we've had our "find a franchise generational player in a late round" luck already, don't forsee it coming anytime soon.

or

2)Trade Lundqvist. this team is never going to finish where it needs to finish in order to draft these players with Lundqvist on this team. He's just too good. He'll win 30 with a bantam team in front of him

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04-16-2013, 11:23 PM
  #988
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Agreed with above - it's not a realistic scenario.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:27 PM
  #989
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It isn't a realistic scenario now. It was plenty realistic back then. Of course, you can't do it now. It is too late now, with Lundqvist in his prime, Callahan and Staal entering their primes. Now, all you can do is live with the consequences of your decisions. When you decide to build your team around overpaid free agents on the wrong side of 30, don't be surprised when you have trouble competing with teams that fill that role with some of the best players in the world.

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04-16-2013, 11:48 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Lundqvist has proven that even he cannot carry a team in the gutter to contenders. His GVT ratings is best post lockout as Bloo Blooded posted, higher than Malkin/Crosby/Ovechkin. That speaks volumes to what he means to the franchise. You're looking at Stamkos, Tavares and Hall on the team probably without him. Don't think this one offseason is enough for turnaround to propel the team to contenders, not enough talent.
I agree with all of that. Still, he is the best goalie in the world. With him in his prime, we will always have a chance.

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04-16-2013, 11:59 PM
  #991
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Guys Richard's is having a bad year. He is not out of his prime yet.

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04-17-2013, 12:41 AM
  #992
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Guys Richard's is having a bad year. He is not out of his prime yet.
What is this "Bad Year" you speak of?

Clearly, a players ability as a fact changes with the weather. Duh.

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04-17-2013, 01:05 AM
  #993
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It's hard for me to understand why his play has dropped off so much this year.

Was it the lockout? Maybe, but he should have his legs underneath him by now after 35 games.
Is it Torts? Probably not, Torts has put him out there with Nash and Gaborik throughout the year and he's still not producing.
Is it the system? Can't be, he had 66 points last year in the same system.
Has he just been snake-bitten and unlucky? He hasn't caught many breaks this year, not a good excuse though.
Is it all mental/personal issues? Possibly
Is he hiding an injury? Also possible

I want an answer to this question almost as much as I want Brad to play better

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04-17-2013, 01:21 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
It's hard for me to understand why his play has dropped off so much this year.

Was it the lockout? Maybe, but he should have his legs underneath him by now after 35 games.
Is it Torts? Probably not, Torts has put him out there with Nash and Gaborik throughout the year and he's still not producing.
Is it the system? Can't be, he had 66 points last year in the same system.
Has he just been snake-bitten and unlucky? He hasn't caught many breaks this year, not a good excuse though.
Is it all mental/personal issues? Possibly
Is he hiding an injury? Also possible

I want an answer to this question almost as much as I want Brad to play better
Badly prepared physically, obviously content with the contract and the big payday and steadily declining real fast since joining last year. Deja vu to any Ranger fan? Maybe not a conscious attitude thing, but it all adds up in the subconscious mind.
I think he believes he tries and cares - but cannot find the inner strength to put it up any more. Not the ideal guy to be wearing a letter at this stage either. Locker room distraction GRANDE IMO. That is obvious. Simply - he has lost "the eyes of the tiger" so to speak.
And as long as his BFF runs the show things are not changing either, be so sure. I know how this works, seen it happen so many times in the professional business and sports world. Great........ There is no turning back here. Amnesty buyout this year or next, mediocracy and frustration until then...


Last edited by BBKers: 04-17-2013 at 01:27 AM.
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Old
04-17-2013, 01:22 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
It's hard for me to understand why his play has dropped off so much this year.

Was it the lockout? Maybe, but he should have his legs underneath him by now after 35 games.
Is it Torts? Probably not, Torts has put him out there with Nash and Gaborik throughout the year and he's still not producing.
Is it the system? Can't be, he had 66 points last year in the same system.
Has he just been snake-bitten and unlucky? He hasn't caught many breaks this year, not a good excuse though.
Is it all mental/personal issues? Possibly
Is he hiding an injury? Also possible

I want an answer to this question almost as much as I want Brad to play better
Here's what I think happened:

He didn't train hard enough during the lockout. He showed up to camp out of shape. This combined with the fact that he probably was very relaxed and lackadaisical about his on ice work and his off ice work during the lockout put him behind the 8-ball from the beginning.

He was a step behind everyone else due to the aforementioned issues.

His confidence went down hill with each poor game.

His lowered confidence lead to him over thinking everything, thus putting too much pressure on himself. This lead to his confidence being absolutely shattered. Thus why he seems to be playing like a shell of his former self. Same body, almost no of the same hockey attributes.

His confidence has been on an endless spiral downwards all season, the only way for him to get it back is to have a solid 5-6 game stretch where he scores a goal every game, dictates play and makes some solid passes. His inability to string together solid games leaves him with very shaky confidence that immediately reverts to it's non-existant level with the first mistake in any game.

Tonight he sat with his head in his hands in the corner of the locker room. He cares a lot, that we can see. However, this shows he is exasperated and doesn't know what to do. He has a defeatist menatlity at the moment, he knows in his mind nothing will go right for him now and he's playing like garbage. It's all in the confidence.



So to sum it up, it started as a snowball (him not keeping up his training during the lockout) and turned into an avalanche (playing with so little confidence that he barely resembles the same player) that has gotten worse and worse. He has been unable to dig himself out of this hole so far. Possible solutions: change of scenery (not likely), 5-6 solid games in a row to build confidence, full offseason to train like a maniac and start fresh next year, Rangers squeak into playoffs after Richards plays well the last few games of the season-carrying his decent play into the playoffs he has a few good games to start the first round...if that happens I think it is still possible we see the old Richards this year.

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Old
04-17-2013, 01:30 AM
  #996
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Very viable answers guys, I think he tries too but just seems dejected out there, playing with no confidence.

I just saw an interview of him tonight after the game and the guy just looked depressed and out of it. It's hard to watch and it truly is a shame, given how great of a player he's been throughout his career. I still want to give him another shot at it next season, but even if he plays well a buy-out is the most logical thing to do

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04-17-2013, 03:43 AM
  #997
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Anyone feel bad for him? You can come give me $12 Lemons a year and point fingers and call me depressed all day! At the end of the day, he still has his millions, we still have our mediocre hockey. He's barely a 2c at this point. That wasn't part of the deal Brad, this is New York, not Florida, better luck next time and don't let the door hit you on the way out. (Knowing him he will manage to fall down 3 times in a row).

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04-17-2013, 06:31 AM
  #998
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In his two years here Richards has not been able to really create chemistry with any of the players put on his wings. For a guy who depends so much on his playmaking ability that is not good. I don't think this is necessarily just a bad year--this is decline. Whether he's in tip top shape or not that's just speculation and truly I don't know if it's necessary for us to give him another year just to find out. If it were true--what's the matter with him anyway?

IMO at this point in time our top two centers are Stepan and Brassard. Whether Brassard continues to maintain a point per game clip or how he'll look in the playoffs (if we make it there) he's a more involved player than the guy that's got an almost $7 mil per year cap hit for the next 7 years. I could understand the Rangers trying to get another year out of Richards but that next buyout one way or another should have his name on it. There's the question of whether Stepan is going to get much better than he already is at age 22. I don't think he's going to be an elite player but he's looking more and more like a legit 1st line center.

Bringing us to------the UFA market (like the draft) is just another avenue in which a team can improve itself. Like at the draft there are no guarantees that what you're hoping for or expecting is what you're going to get. In any case this team is not the kind of team that tanks to get a franchise player. It gets lucky with a Lundqvist once in a while. Previous to that was Leetch. It didn't work with Messier (2nd time around), Holik, Gomez, Drury and is not working with Richards. C'est la vie.

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04-17-2013, 06:44 AM
  #999
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The tanking evangelists have once again revealed the secrets to success. Throw away next season in the hopes of drafting a #1 C. They forget to mention that this plan requires several years to determine if it actually worked.

This puts 2-3 more years on Lundquivist. Not going to ever happen with this franchise.
The people who advocate this are perhaps the most delusional out of all the segments of this fanbase.

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04-17-2013, 06:57 AM
  #1000
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This is how it is. So whether he didn't train right or what, he has to straighten out

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